New investigations board & restrictions on posting personal information

[tmfp]

For now, I'm thinking that maybe the whole idea of publishing dox should be reexamined. What does it really gain? If people are going to use the dox to illegally harass this person, then that's not a good result. If people are using the information for legal cases and police reports, then that is good, but I think that in most cases this can be done from the non-public Investigations board.

On a case-by-case basis, I'd like to see a utilitarian argument in Meta about exactly what is gained by publishing specific bits of uncovered info. For example, maybe there is significant utility in publishing this person's name and general location, to warn others, but not his full address. Another thing which must be addressed is how we can be sure that the person being doxxed is the person who did the scamming, and that they are actually guilty of the scamming. I certainly don't want to return to the scammer tag era of me single-handedly deciding these things. After a few of these cases are hammered out in Meta, perhaps a uniform policy will emerge.

Theymos
Say there is a thread in "Service Announcements" promoting a scheme which appears suspicious, posted by username XYZ.
A bit of research done perfectly legally by searching publically available data linked to XYZ and his scheme on company names, addresses and other info provided in that thread shows that in real life XYZ is John Doe, with an MO of questionable practices/outright scams/failed enterprises.
Will this new initiative prevent posts in that thread linking XYZ to John Doe and asking whether or not this is him and his history?
Instead, should I post a new thread in "Investigations" and crosslinks in the two threads? Will this be acceptable?

Yes, cross-linking is good. Post your conclusions in Scam Accusations (eg. x is an alt of y, x has a history of scamming, etc.), but keep the investigations themselves in Investigations. My idea is that trustworthy members will export any important information about alts, trustworthiness, etc. from Investigations, while keeping the actual private information in a non-public section.

I see where you are coming from with regard to "in house" BCT scammers and accusations, but my interest is in the wider picture of Bitcoin investment generally.
If I see a Bitcoin scheme in the wild which I think could do with a closer look and I find something of interest, then I will post about it here because this forum reaches a wide BTC audience, in the hope that when people see the bigger picture behind the scheme, including the principals' history, it will inform their judgement about whether or not to invest in it.
This one for example, which I posted in the local sub forum most likely to reach people with interest in it.
It is not a scam accusation, but contextualizes the scheme on offer and its prime mover's history. It would be meaningless without identifying the actors involved. Also, further useful input may be contributed by others who see a name, picture or other "dox" type detail and recognise it from the past.
To relate the current scheme on offer to past ones operated by them, "doxxing" the people involved is an essential step, not because there is any benefit per se in exposing their meatspace identities, but because it is the link between the two and establishes a pattern of behaviour.

How will the new regime affect this sort of post?   

[1715065118]

1715065118

[1715065118]

1715065118

[1715065118]

1715065118

[1715065118]

1715065118

[suchmoon]

If someone has dox in their signature do we report one post or all posts and how will moderators deal with that?

Report one of their posts. If they don't have any posts, post in Meta about it.

When a user is autobanned (ie. a specific type of permaban initiated by moderators, but then put in place automatically), their signature is cleared. If a user doesn't deserve a permaban, then either they can be autobanned and unbanned by one of the mods with manual-ban permissions, or else an admin can adjust their signature directly.

Here is another one. There's a user who created a few puppets with usernames that are supposedly real names of other users... i.e. the dox being the username itself, there was some personal text too I think (not the sig but the one on the left side). Is that reportable too? How would that be handled? Even nuked users still remain in the user list, right? Indexable by Google?

[theymos]

Is that reportable too?

Yes. They'll at least be nuked, and then maybe I will rename the user.

[theymos]

How will the new regime affect this sort of post?   

For non-local content of that sort, please post it in Investigations and then export any conclusions to scam accusations.

[suchmoon]

Is that reportable too?

Yes. They'll at least be nuked, and then maybe I will rename the user.

Thanks. What about trust feedback? I know those are not googleable but visible to users below Member (which is the threshold for "Investigations"). Is doxing allowed there?

[Lutpin]

So when newbies (or juniors) post stuff that would go into the Investiation board, what's the right move for that?
I've recently reported a post^[1] of one that got afterwards moved into the section, which currently locks them out of accessing their own thread.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1576669.0

Interesting situation, but the newbie account in question was created only yesterday.
So it is probably a throw-away account created just to dox somebody.

It's not that thread in particular, but the situation generally that catched my interest.
Also would like to know how to handle reports/comments on reports in those cases.

[botany]

So when newbies (or juniors) post stuff that would go into the Investiation board, what's the right move for that?
I've recently reported a post^[1] of one that got afterwards moved into the section, which currently locks them out of accessing their own thread.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1576669.0

Interesting situation, but the newbie account in question was created only yesterday.
So it is probably a throw-away account created just to dox somebody.

[theymos]

Thanks. What about trust feedback? I know those are not googleable but visible to users below Member (which is the threshold for "Investigations"). Is doxing allowed there?

No. Report that by posting to Meta.

So when newbies (or juniors) post stuff that would go into the Investiation board, what's the right move for that?

It has to be moved to Investigations. Unfortunately, there's no way that I can easily make the forum allow them to see just their own thread, which would be ideal. I guess they'll have to work through a Member+ mediator. It might be helpful if some people would volunteer to act as mediators in these cases, and then I could list them in a sticky.

[Heutenamos]

excluding links that the person himself has posted. It is not allowed to post somebody's personal information in any other public place, including in signatures.

what if someone else is carrying a link in their signature,trust page etc.. which leads to the dox. It is not directly posted on forum.

what if someone is doing a giveaway and writing the dox as a "Public Note:" in the transactions.

I just want to know what are the rules when dox is not posted directly on the forum ?

[theymos]

what if someone is doing a giveaway and writing the dox as a "Public Note:" in the transactions.

Not allowed.

what if someone is doing a giveaway and writing the dox as a "Public Note:" in the transactions.

That's unusual, and would probably depend on the situation.

[ndnh]

I believe doxxing is illegal?

No, it is not. A DOX is (usually) a collection of publicly available information.

Huh?

Right from Wikipedia
Doxing (from dox, abbreviation of documents),[1] or doxxing,[2][3] is the Internet-based practice of researching and broadcasting personally identifiable information about an individual.

I am sure that is not legal in my jurisdiction.


http://theothermccain.com/2012/11/19/update-walker-v-kimberlin-et-al-also-why-doxing-is-always-illegal/
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/11/28/the-illegal-activity-of-doxing-revealing-documents-or-personal-information-about-a-person-without-their-permission-with-the-intent-to-threaten-harass-intimidate-shame-humiliate-or-place/

[Lauda]

Huh?

Right from Wikipedia
Doxing (from dox, abbreviation of documents),[1] or doxxing,[2][3] is the Internet-based practice of researching and broadcasting personally identifiable information about an individual.

I am sure that is not legal in my jurisdiction.

I'm not sure why it would be illegal to (e.g.) summarize your information taken from a social network and post it here? There is information that may be illegal to post (e.g. social security number), but I wouldn't consider details that can be found via google to be illegal.

It might be helpful if some people would volunteer to act as mediators in these cases, and then I could list them in a sticky.

Are you already looking for mediators or was this just a thought?

[iram666801]

Why is this new announcement needed as of late 
There was an investigations section in scam accusation section all this time

[ndnh]

Huh?

Right from Wikipedia
Doxing (from dox, abbreviation of documents),[1] or doxxing,[2][3] is the Internet-based practice of researching and broadcasting personally identifiable information about an individual.

I am sure that is not legal in my jurisdiction.

I'm not sure why it would be illegal to (e.g.) summarize your information taken from a social network and post it here? There is information that may be illegal to post (e.g. social security number), but I wouldn't consider details that can be found via google to be illegal.

I mean
Revealing “documents or personal information” about a person, without their permission, with the intent to Threaten, Harass, Intimidate, Shame, Humiliate or Place at Risk…. is illegal in my jurisdiction.

but I wouldn't consider details that can be found via google to be illegal.

Where you find it is immaterial.

[Lauda]

I mean
Revealing “documents or personal information” about a person, without their permission, with the intent to Threaten, Harass, Intimidate, Shame, Humiliate or Place at Risk…. is illegal in my jurisdiction.

Exactly how is an investigation falling under any of those verbs? Unless you think that this places them *at risk of jail time* (I doubt that this is what was meant by that). There is also a fair amount of sources claiming that doxxing is legal. Generally, I'm pretty sure that this is not illegal around the globe.

Where you find it is immaterial.

No, it matters a lot.
Update: Fair point ndnh. Jurisdictions aren't my strong suite, but I'd say that if it were generally illegal that it would be disallowed on the forum.

[dogie]

but I wouldn't consider details that can be found via google to be illegal.

Where you find it is immaterial.

Its also impossible to verify that those details can be found publicly and that they're even correct which is a much larger issue. For example I could 'dox' Lauda by saying he/she is actually a sentient rabbit who lives at 123 Wartership Down and its public information or can be found with paid searches. How can anyone else verify that?

[Your Point Is Invalid]

Lol, this is stupid, If you think people wont use this new section as a weapon then you are out of your mind theymos, doxing used to be done when it was necessary, this new section gives people a new incentive, people will be doxing for fun. It will be very interesting to see who decides if a dox needs to be removed, im gonna go ahead and say that any dox of any DT member will most likely be deleted, im looking forward to seeing the dox of the hate squad being posted.

[suchmoon]

Lol, this is stupid, If you think people wont use this new section as a weapon then you are out of your mind theymos, doxing used to be done when it was necessary, this new section gives people a new incentive, people will be doxing for fun. It will be very interesting to see who decides if a dox needs to be removed, im gonna go ahead and say that any dox of any DT member will most likely be deleted, im looking forward to seeing the dox of the hate squad being posted.

How is a new section going to incentivize more doxing?

You could dox anyone, anywhere, for any reason until now. Now such dox will be moved to one section or removed ("if there are no remotely-plausible trade complaints"). Even under the most liberal interpretation of "trade complaints" there is no "new incentive".

[Heutenamos]

what if someone is doing a giveaway and writing the dox as a "Public Note:" in the transactions.

Not allowed.

what if someone is doing a giveaway and writing the dox as a "Public Note:" in the transactions.

That's unusual, and would probably depend on the situation.

You quoted the same line twice. Knowingly ?

[ColderThanIce]

Its also impossible to verify that those details can be found publicly and that they're even correct which is a much larger issue. For example I could 'dox' Lauda by saying he/she is actually a sentient rabbit who lives at 123 Wartership Down and its public information or can be found with paid searches. How can anyone else verify that?

Exactly. I think it's important to back up how you're getting your information so that it's transparent for others looking to verify themselves, as well as for others to confirm that you didn't find this information illegally. A prime example of a quick, effective and legal dox was Jason Boyko's (the guy who ran PBMining) done by MrTeal. It would be nice to see more dox's done like that because I'm not so sure that some of the doxes here on BTCT are completely legal (and of course I know a few doxes are probably incorrect too).