Bitfinex: 36.5% Haircuts for all!

[MatTheCat]

After a several days of telling everyone that only holder of BTC would be affected, Bitfinex have decided that EVERYONE (except for themselves of course), will take a 36.5% haircut on their account. That means those of us that had just USD sitting in a bank account, which was not robbed, are going to have Bitfinex dip into it, and redistribute it to those who lost BTC due to the massive BTC theft, which was probably an inside job:

http://blog.bitfinex.com/uncategorized/bitfinex-interim-update/#comment-450


So, when Kraken is robbed and my account is emptied, I take a 100% hit. When Bitfinex is robbed, but my account isn't emptied, my funds are sued to bail out everyone else.

Must be loads of people who are affected by this on here, and some who are more clued up on the best lines of complaint than others.


What is the best agency to raise a complaint with regarding Bitfinex?

[OmegaStarScream]

I read that yesterday and I have to say It's totally unfair for those who didn't get hacked , I mean even those who got hacked.
Since It's percentage , losses will be huge for those who have bigger amounts so It's kinda screwed. If they really want to keep their users , they should give them the money back (even if not full amount) but after some time of operating etc... they should continue to give them their losses as the website is making daily profits.

[MatTheCat]

I read that yesterday and I have to say It's totally unfair for those who didn't get hacked , I mean even those who got hacked.
Since It's percentage , losses will be huge for those who have bigger amounts so It's kinda screwed. If they really want to keep their users , they should give them the money back (even if not full amount) but after some time of operating etc... they should continue to give them their losses as the website is making daily profits.

It is more than unfair........it is illegal.


If Bitfinex were operating in the UK, had their offices in the UK, and lived in the UK, then the police would already be on their way to arrest them.


Since Bitfinex's registered offices are in Hong Kong, but have no personnel tied to that office and indeed the operators are based throughout the whole world, the situation becomes more complicated.

[bitkilo]

Its good to see the people who were effected by the hack be reimbursement but it should not be done this way.

If this is indeed true and bitfinex goes through with this crazy plan then that will be the end of them and they can kiss all their customers goodbye.

[OmegaStarScream]

Its good to see the people who were effected by the hack be reimbursement but it should not be done this way.

If this is indeed true and bitfinex goes through with this crazy plan then that will be the end of them and they can kiss all their customers goodbye.

They lost their customers the second they got hacked for 2nd time, refunding users back or not won't bring back their customers back. People may be dumb sometimes but ... Bitfinex is getting hacked for the second time , and I don't see anyone willing to keep his funds on their services and wait to get hacked for the third time.

[rick2718]

I'd like a disclosure about personal holdings on Bitfinex among the people who made the decision
to "socialize" the losses.

Did any of them personally benefit from that decision? if so, by how much?

[Nobitcoin]

That's so funny that a exchange can rob themselves and all the users that have cash still in their accounts have to pay the BTC holders.

[European Central Bank]

I think it's grotesque but they can hold the bankruptcy hammer over their customers. everyone knows that if that happens all the money disappears into a black hole and might never be seen again. these slack pricks need to be nailed for this but I think they're gonna get away with it with zero comebacks.

[MatTheCat]

I think it's grotesque but they can hold the bankruptcy hammer over their customers. everyone knows that if that happens all the money disappears into a black hole and might never be seen again. these slack pricks need to be nailed for this but I think they're gonna get away with it with zero comebacks.

If they they make good on their promise to simply dip into customers accounts and redistribute funds, and enough disgruntled Bitfinex customers go to the authorities and make complaints, then there is a good chance of some Finex operators getting some jail time.

See, what Bitfinex plan to do, is theft, and theft is a criminal offence, and considering the sheer volumes of capital involved, I would like to think that this will carry a bit of jailtime with it.

[European Central Bank]

See, what Bitfinex plan to do, is theft, and theft is a criminal offence, and considering the sheer volumes of capital involved, I would like to think that this will carry a bit of jailtime with it.

I think they'll try to hide behind their terms and conditions but let's see what happens. it's about time these sociopathic millennials learnt that you can't do what suits you and screw everyone else.

[MatTheCat]

See, what Bitfinex plan to do, is theft, and theft is a criminal offence, and considering the sheer volumes of capital involved, I would like to think that this will carry a bit of jailtime with it.

I think they'll try to hide behind their terms and conditions but let's see what happens. it's about time these sociopathic millennials learnt that you can't do what suits you and screw everyone else.

Yeah...I have seen their terms and conditions.....fucking bonkers.....they basically state that they are not responsible for any loss of funds, no matter what the reason is (quite literally).....but just because they state all this in their T&Cs doesn't mean that their T&Cs themselves are legal.

Well, whatever, I shall be getting my complaint into the UK Online Cyber Crime Squad asap, and will take things from there.

[SmartIphone]

When bter was hacked on February 2015 and the hackers or their employees hacked the cold storage and stole the bitcoins then only those users that had bitcoins on their balance were affected by more than 90% which still haven't paid a penny for a year.

One one side it is good that they cut from all users (by not affecting only a small group) but also its not good for those that had fiat or othercoins.

I think they will cover the loss very fast and hope they will not act like the bter which paid only a small percentage and still own more than 90% of my bitcoins.

[rick2718]

>>I think they will cover the loss very fast


Hopefully, but they have to have it to pay it out.
How many people will remain, continuing to pay commissions do you think?



I was all fiat, but don't ever expect to see it back. I'll believe the 63.5% only when I have
it somewhere really safe.


...and what are the odds personal stakes on their side will
be dipped into to make customers whole?

[European Central Bank]

...and what are the odds personal stakes on their side will
be dipped into to make customers whole?

somewhere between zero and nothing. didn't you know it's somehow your fault? it's probably buried somewhere in their blurb.

[a7mos]

It is unfair decision and I do not like it. but what can I do ! nothing but I have to agree and take my money from this site and never come back again.
the hacking is their mistake. the site is responsible for its problems not the users

[MatTheCat]

It is unfair decision and I do not like it. but what can I do ! nothing but I have to agree and take my money from this site and never come back again.
the hacking is their mistake. the site is responsible for its problems not the users

You could report the issue to the police?

That is what I am doing.

What Bitfinex are doing is illegal, and amounts to theft. There must be tens of thousands of people who are getting burned here. If enough of them lodge complaints with their respective authorities, a criminal prosecution  will surely come. Play your part. Add to the chorus of voices calling for the heads of the crooks at Bitfinex. Do your bit to make em do at least a bit of time for those 120K BTC (which  in all probability was 'hacked' from within).

In all likelihood, there will be some big hands with deep pockets, who are going to fly into a litigious rage against Bitfinex going forward from here.....and in reality, that is what it is going to take to get something done.......maybe they even figured that the biggest players on their exchange, were all Bitcoin heavy so they are doing the best they can to appease them?


If could pick just one of the Bitfinex gang out for a 5 stretch, I would pick this greedy avaricious looking prick:

[marky89]

What Bitfinex are doing is illegal, and amounts to theft. There must be tens of thousands of people who are getting burned here. If enough of them lodge complaints with their respective authorities, a criminal prosecution  will surely come. Play your part.

I agree that what they are doing is illegal. I'm not sure why they are approaching it this way; their first plan (to consider losses as individualized) was legally sound and would easily prevent insolvency. What they are doing is indeed theft, and I imagine people will be pursuing them legally.

The problem is, we aren't gonna get much back that way. If they actually reopen trading/withdrawals, that may be the best chance to get something back.

[MatTheCat]

What Bitfinex are doing is illegal, and amounts to theft. There must be tens of thousands of people who are getting burned here. If enough of them lodge complaints with their respective authorities, a criminal prosecution  will surely come. Play your part.

I agree that what they are doing is illegal. I'm not sure why they are approaching it this way; their first plan (to consider losses as individualized) was legally sound and would easily prevent insolvency. What they are doing is indeed theft, and I imagine people will be pursuing them legally.

The problem is, we aren't gonna get much back that way. If they actually reopen trading/withdrawals, that may be the best chance to get something back.

I believe that Bitfinex abandoned their plan to simply fuck over holders of BTC, because it wasn't legally sound. Bitfinex took hold of those BTC on behalf of the customers, and the owners of the BTC had no control over them, or their security. Had Finex took this route, then disgruntled BTC holders who had just lost their shirts, would flown into a litigious rage, via the British Virgin Island's court system of course, and they would have won. Bitfinex would likely have had to pay all the legal fees, and the company would face insolvency for sure.

The alternative, has been to steal from customers who were not affected by the thefts, and issue some shit-coin BFX token, in order that at least some Bitfinex customers, believe that Bitfinex intends to make good on their losses, and don't just pull all their funds from the exchange, the moment that they get the chance to do so. Under this situation, not only would Bitfinex still be vulnerable to litigation in the civil courts, but I suspect (I don't know for sure but I do suspect), there could be criminal charges to answer for here as well. However, Bitfinex are basing this course of action, on 'doing the best thing possible for their customers'; in that should the company be hit with a barrage of litigation, which they would be almost certain to lose, the company would go bankcrupt and be forced to liquidise, with customers possibly ending up worse off than had everyone just accepted the 36% kick in the nuts to begin with.

The other complication is, 'who are Bitfinex?' Registered offices in Hong Kong, which turns out to be simply the offices of a company that allows other companies to register at their address. Bank account in Taiwan, legal jurisdiction in the British Virgin Islands, and shadowy operators located all over the world, who cannot be accurately located.

My take on this, is that we haven't seen the worst of it yet. I also suspect that certain individuals operating behind Bitfinex itself, were complicit in the 'security breach'. BitGo simply implemented the level of security that Bitfinex requested. Therefore the question has to arise, whether it was a matter of sheer incompetence, or intentional crookedness, that Bitfinex opted for the security configuration that they opted for, which amongst other things had no 'freeze' function for any situation where say twice the average daily rate of BTC transactions was triggered within a single 24 hour period. As it happened, more than 65 times the average rate of Bitcoin transactions, was allowed to occur within less than an hour.

If I am right and say the likes of Giancarlo Devasini (face of a fkn crook if ever I seen one), or Raphael Niccole (previous for running ponzi scheme), were involved in the heist, but other big hitters and financial backers behind Bitfinex were not, then there are still 'honest' people behind Bitfinex, who may be the driving force behind these desperate attempts to keep the whole operation afloat, and who knows, even to return as much customers money as possible.