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Author Topic: Any Idea who is behind the sealswithclubs DDOS attack?  (Read 5708 times)
bitcoinperson
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March 25, 2013, 01:19:15 AM
 #1

Just curious to see what theories people have regarding who is behind the DDOS attack on SwC.
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peps1c0la
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March 25, 2013, 01:52:23 AM
 #2

None of my ideas are concrete, nor do I have any evidence to support any of my theories, but I figured I would take a moment and place a guess or two.

First, there was the incident a while ago from someone demanding ransom of (I believe) 50 btc to stop the attack.  The letter was signed with regards from "Mother Russia."  Regardless of where it really came from, a quick switch to CloudFare was the response, and it seemed to work fine - as the attack seemed to be coming from (again, in my opinion) a solo amateur or group thereof.

Today, in addition to SWC, I have noticed some unusual difficulty on a couple other BTC sites.  One of them is a pool I use where one can mine all sorts of alternate currencies.

Though it may be a coincidence, I tend to think it isn't.  If the attack isn't 100% SWC, and is 100% btc, and is this strong, I believe that it would have to be started by a group that feels threatened by this new (and now strong) currency.  Who might that be?

It was joked in the poker room that Anonymous may be behind it.  This is far from the truth - as Anonymous would applaud what it is BTC followers are trying to do.

More likely, I think it is one of two broadly defined groups behind it.  1) Major Financial Institution(s) or 2) Government (or group of governments i.e. UN or EU).  Since they operate hand in hand, the two groups, if one is behind it, the others are aware.

Of course, I may be WAAAYYY off, but it's my idea.

Is there a prize if I'm right?  Send prizes to....  j/k :-)   I hope everything gets back to normal soon.

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Marker88
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March 25, 2013, 02:04:38 AM
 #3

It'd be me if i had the time ^.^

Jk

but seriously there is no way to know, personally i think its a brat with a booter or a paid service that got mad at a big loss.

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GambitBTC
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March 25, 2013, 02:22:26 AM
 #4

Somebody is bound to claim responsibility sooner or later
illpoet
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March 25, 2013, 04:03:13 AM
 #5

at first i would have dismissed pepsi's theory out of hand but a few things make me want to agree with him.
1. If it were some individual hacker who got burned/just wants to show off, we'd have seen someone taking responsibility. "OMG I AM (insert H4ck3r username here) and I am leet!"  If it were anonymous we'd have seen tons of tweets about it already, but i agree with pepsi, everything ive seen from anonymous points to them being on our side.  The only ppl who would want to remain a mystery would be a competitor/govt just trying to bring down bitcoin businesses.

2. The strength of the attack. The first ddos strike was handled by cloudflare no problem while this one brought the entire isp down.  The site was moved to a data center that specializes in handling ddos and yet still is being taken down/vulnerable.  Thats a ton of resources/infected computers/MONEY.  this points to government interference, maybe not our normal villains the US govt but say, the government of cyprus. 

  It could also be an elaborate plan to bring the price of bitcoin down, since everyone knows that sealswithclubs.eu owns the bitcoin world, it would stand to reason that if that site went down the price of bitcoin would go down with it, since degenerate gamblers don't have a reason for buying them.  feel free to flame me for stating the obvious.

the truth is we can't really know and theres only a small chance we'll find out. but since i cant get on the site and gamble atm its fun to speculate!

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March 25, 2013, 04:25:51 AM
 #6

2. The strength of the attack. The first ddos strike was handled by cloudflare no problem while this one brought the entire isp down.  The site was moved to a data center that specializes in handling ddos and yet still is being taken down/vulnerable.  Thats a ton of resources/infected computers/MONEY.  this points to government interference, maybe not our normal villains the US govt but say, the government of cyprus.

I believe the attacker is most probably the same person or people or entities who were previously attacking other BTC sites including Dragon's Tale.  The attacks have consistently been getting stronger, perhaps as the attacker gains more experience or perhaps as they simply harvest more zombies for their botnet.

I don't really know the technical details of the DDoS, so can't say if the technique is getting better or just the volume.  I hope BTC sites are sharing information on this, because if one site gets hardened to the point the DDoS is not working on that site any more, we will very likely see the attacker move on to other sites.

It may be the only long-term solution to these attacks is going to be finding out who is doing them and going after them personally.  You can't really stop a botnet without chopping off the head.
bitcoinperson
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March 25, 2013, 04:30:11 AM
 #7

Interesting ideas. I was thinking who would gain but launching an attack? Rival BTC poker sites, governments. More likely governments.
illpoet
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March 25, 2013, 04:49:52 AM
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yeah darkmule could be correct, could just be some powermad freak going after bitcoin sites in general.  although its kind ofr weird to think of a government ddos'ing someone, usually they send in guys in black outfits with guns to your house and take everything you have and thr4ow you in jail.  well at least in the us thats how they do it.  im not up on the specifics of ddosing someone either but the idea that its one guy who is just amassing more and more zombies over time seems feasible.  he must be throwing a hell of bunch of comps seals's way tho.  i wonder if theres any connection to the guy who was attempting to ddos sealsdeals.info and then doxing ender.  it seems far fetched since that guy was kind of a joke who thought ender was hosting the website on a home computer. but you never know.  The only reason i even would make that connection is because as soon as seals went down some posts went up doxing ender again with something along the lines of "if seals takes off with your money heres an admins info".  strange coincidence probably, since someone with enough know how to launch a massive ddos attack would be able to figure out that A. Ender isn't an admin, just a helpful player that does some coding. and B. Free is about as honest as they come and isn't gonna run away with our money.  he's proven it time and time again.  but like i said, i can't play poker and im bored so i'll just keep posting random shit.

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Wingman4l7
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March 25, 2013, 04:57:45 AM
 #9

First, there was the incident a while ago from someone demanding ransom of (I believe) 50 btc to stop the attack.  The letter was signed with regards from "Mother Russia."
"Greetings from Russia" -- it was 60 BTC; the attack was back in late January 2013.

  this points to government interference, maybe not our normal villains the US govt but say, the government of cyprus. 

  It could also be an elaborate plan to bring the price of bitcoin down, since everyone knows that sealswithclubs.eu owns the bitcoin world,
Gotta say, I think you're way off base.  Cyprus is too busy freaking out about it's own banking meltdown to attack SwC.  As for SwC "owning the bitcoin world", I think that's a gross exaggeration.  SwC only has an average of a few hundred players; most people screwing around with BTC appear to be speculating with the currency itself.

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illpoet
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March 25, 2013, 05:17:14 AM
 #10

i think the phrase "tongue in cheek" is appropriate here.  i was also going to put forth the theory that someone wanted to kick chumlee in the balls irl but since they couldn't they ddos'd the site.  Cyprus was just an example.  i could have said like china, which would maybe make more sense on account we know they love hacking stuff.  the idea of some government agency deciding to ddos seals is a little crazy anyway, but so is anyone wanting to ddos seals unless its a blanket attack on successful bitcoin sites.  another theory im really fond of is that maybe its jaguars.

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velacreations
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March 25, 2013, 06:01:36 AM
 #11

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the highly plausible scenario that it is a rival/competitor site/industry.  Casino/poker rooms see some compeition rising up, Seals is getting popular, let's shut them down for a bit.

Seems like the most likely scenario to me.  Who has the most to gain?  What would their methods be?

Govt - not a chance.  If the govt wanted you down, you'd be down.  They don't DDoS, they seize your domain.  Ask MegaUpload how the govt takes you down.

It could be kids or pranksters, but I tend to think there is some motivation here.

Do we need a BTC mafia for protection?

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March 25, 2013, 06:45:34 AM
 #12

vel, yeah i think in the seals thread it was bandied about that it could be  a mainstream/large casino behind the attack.  I was kind of against it because at the end of the day seals only has like 300-400 active users, although that is growing extremely rapidly (at least compared to the growth in 2012). Now looking it over I could see the scenario of some major exec playing on it (and getting crushed by somebody going all in with 9 2 os) and deciding that it will be a threat in the coming few years (which it will).  Then hiring a shady hacker shmoe to ddos.  So Seals goes down but not in a way that attracts attention to it (which is what would happen if the casinos sicked their doj lapdogs on them). 
 Another Scenario has a religous extremist who also is really into bitcoins bringing the site down bc gambling is "immoral" and gives bitcoin a bad name. 
Space aliens could be DDOSing Seals With Clubs because they found out Freemoney knows how to free Xenu. 
It could be also that freemoney is really good looking Irl And only dates hot chicks with large botnets.  He started seeing a girl with a bigger botnet than the previous girl and the xgf got pissed.
It could be that bfl josh decided he wanted his quarter back. so he called up someone with a clue and offered them a dime to ddos seals.
The Russian Mafia could be mad that their couriers keep losing all their heroin profits in the 25/50 cash game. Since the main courier is the head boss's favorite nephew, its easier to bring the site down than cut out his eyes.
did i mention it could be jaguars?
theres so many possibilities and unless someone steps up and claims responsibilty (which seems unlikely if it hasn't happened yet) we can only speculate.  so far everyone elses theorys are far more valid than mine.  but i sure do like trying!

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btc: 1DKRaNUnMQkeby6Dk1d8e6fRczSrTEhd8p ltc: LV4Udu7x9aLs28MoMCzsvVGKJbSmrHESnt
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darkmule
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March 25, 2013, 06:53:09 AM
 #13

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the highly plausible scenario that it is a rival/competitor site/industry.  Casino/poker rooms see some compeition rising up, Seals is getting popular, let's shut them down for a bit.

The thing is, the only competition I can think of is either ridiculously small compared to Seals (in the BTC poker arena) or huge compared to Seals (in the fiat money poker arena).

Seals is basically dominating a very tiny sliver of the gambling industry, mostly Americans who can only gamble in BTC.  Lately, the value of BTC is increasing interest, but still, we're talking 300 players or so at maximum volume.  The fiat money sites have a lot more to lose if they get caught and we end up with a retaliatory DDoS against them.  The potential competitors to SwC on the BTC side, though, have very little to gain at the moment.

I think it's likely ideological.  If not that, then some butthurt loser who lost a lot of money there by being a shitty player.
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March 25, 2013, 07:02:45 AM
 #14

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the highly plausible scenario that it is a rival/competitor site/industry.  Casino/poker rooms see some compeition rising up, Seals is getting popular, let's shut them down for a bit.

The thing is, the only competition I can think of is either ridiculously small compared to Seals (in the BTC poker arena) or huge compared to Seals (in the fiat money poker arena).

Seals is basically dominating a very tiny sliver of the gambling industry, mostly Americans who can only gamble in BTC.  Lately, the value of BTC is increasing interest, but still, we're talking 300 players or so at maximum volume.  The fiat money sites have a lot more to lose if they get caught and we end up with a retaliatory DDoS against them.  The potential competitors to SwC on the BTC side, though, have very little to gain at the moment.

I think it's likely ideological.  If not that, then some butthurt loser who lost a lot of money there by being a shitty player.

Good analysis. However I wouldn't rule out fiat-casinos/poker rooms. Those people might be quite forward-thinking and aware that bitcoin gambling could well explode and threaten their existence. Shit can grow fast on the interwebs and maybe they decided to kill the monster while it's still small enough.

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March 25, 2013, 07:08:53 AM
 #15

also just a coincidence that all the major litecoin pools under ddos attacks recently as well?

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velacreations
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March 25, 2013, 07:19:08 AM
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also just a coincidence that all the major litecoin pools under ddos attacks recently as well?
really?  I didn't even know.  I guess both of those guys are bummed...
 Grin

but seriously, litecoin going down is probably just people fucking around, I kinda doubt it is related to this, though it might be.

So, let's a make a list of entities that would benefit from Seals being down:

disgruntled players
competition
idealists

and then you can throw in the random teenager.

Which is the most likely?  an angry player, followed by competition.  You know, for competition, it could be something as simple as people talking about Seals in Fiat rooms.  Things are weird in the poker industry, people are loyal to certain houses and tables, and they take shit seriously.

We will probably never know, but these sorts of tests on a system are good for long term stability.

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March 25, 2013, 08:44:05 AM
 #17

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the highly plausible scenario that it is a rival/competitor site/industry.  Casino/poker rooms see some compeition rising up, Seals is getting popular, let's shut them down for a bit.

Seems like the most likely scenario to me.  Who has the most to gain?  What would their methods be?

Govt - not a chance.  If the govt wanted you down, you'd be down.  They don't DDoS, they seize your domain.  Ask MegaUpload how the govt takes you down.

It could be kids or pranksters, but I tend to think there is some motivation here.

Do we need a BTC mafia for protection?

The only domains the US gov can seize are dot com and seals is not dot com.  All US facing gambling sites have changed their domains so what happened to Poker Stars and Full Tilt as far as domain seizures  cannot happen to them.

If you don't know where you're going any road will get you there
velacreations
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March 25, 2013, 02:33:33 PM
 #18

I think smaller/newer poker sites actually have the most to gain for Seals being down.  What sites are new and looking for customers?  With Seals down, players want to go somewhere.  It might not be poker games, either.

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March 25, 2013, 05:03:53 PM
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I think smaller/newer poker sites actually have the most to gain for Seals being down.  What sites are new and looking for customers?  With Seals down, players want to go somewhere.  It might not be poker games, either.

Ya but in the end its a fail as all the seals will ultimately come back, every time.
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March 25, 2013, 11:38:36 PM
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Ya but in the end its a fail as all the seals will ultimately come back, every time.
yeah, for sure, I agree with this.  Though, the reasoning may have been to create enough downtime to get players to explore other options.

I don't know, but it is possible.  It's a theory.

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