FinCen and MtGox

[kalinka]

Doesn't MtGox have a US company that's registered with FinCen and handles all the exchanges? If so, US buyers/sellers through MtGox shouldn't be regulated, even in accordance with their new regulations. Thoughts?

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[Stephen Gornick]

Doesn't MtGox have a US company that's registered with FinCen and handles all the exchanges? If so, US buyers/sellers through MtGox shouldn't be regulated, even in accordance with their new regulations. Thoughts?

If you are referring to Mutum Sigillum LLC, that is only used for Dwolla USD transactions to and from Mt. Gox.  I don't know that Mutum Sigillum is registered with FinCEN as an MSB.  

I believe this will soon be a moot point as accounts in the U.S. get transitioned over to service by Coinlab.  Coinlab has registered as an MSB, apparently with some reference to being a "seller of prepaid access". 

[Vladimir]

Considering all the BS one need to suffer to get "approved" with MtGox, all those APOSTILED document they require... yea they are fine with FinCEN and their ilk most likely. It is quicker and easier to marry than to open an account with gox.

[kalinka]

Coinlab is what I meant. With the new ambiguous ruling regarding "buying and selling bitcoin to a person for money", since coinlab is registered they wouldn't be considered "a person" and therefore I am not a money services business or transmitter or exchanger or anything else if I use mt gox services, right?

In your opinion..

[Stephen Gornick]

since coinlab is registered they wouldn't be considered "a person"

Just because a company that has registered as a Money Service Business (MSB) doesn't make them no longer a "person" - which is defined here:
 - http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/definitions/person.html

and therefore I am not a money services business or transmitter or exchanger or anything else if I use mt gox services, right?

If you serve as an agent of a money transmitter, then you don't need to register as an MSB yourself.
 - http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/definitions/serves_agent.html

But Coinlab's customers aren't its agents.

If you are asking if you can use Coinlab to cash out your own coins without you having to register as a money service business then that is a different question.  FinCEN makes it clear that as a merchant you can receive bitcoins for goods and services and that you can spend those bitcoins for goods and services -- all without registering as a money service business.

But if you receive bitcoins and then convert those coins to dollars at an exchange, are you transmitting money?  I believe the answer is no if you are covered under the limitation for 31 CFR § 1010.100(ff)(5)(ii)(F):

(F) Accepts and transmits funds only integral to the sale of goods or the provision of services, other than money transmission services, by the person who is accepting and transmitting the funds.

- http://blog.bitpay.com/2013/03/how-fincen-guidelines-affect-bitpay.html

So if you received the coins from the sale of goods and services and cash those out at an exchange and withdraw the funds to your own bank account, for instance, it appears then that you are not a money transmitter and don't need to register as an MSB.

Now if you received the coins from someone and converted those to cash and returned cash to that person, then that is a completely different transaction and if you would need to register as an MSB in that instance is a completely different question.