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Author Topic: Whose Crimea  (Read 1652 times)
Alik Bahshi (OP)
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August 11, 2016, 11:43:03 AM
 #1


Singer Jamal from Ukraine with the song "1944" on the deportation of the Crimean Russian people took to the Eurovision Song Contest 2016 the first place. World gave the highest mark to remind the performer of the human tragedy and the brutality of the Russian authorities, who to this day continue to haunt the Crimean Tatars to consolidate the their homeland.

Alik Bakhshi

Whose Crimea

    Frankly cynical and barefaced blatant attempt by Moscow to push its corrupt henchman in the election of the Ukrainian president has caused anger and indignation of the people of Ukraine and was the cause of the Orange Revolution occurred. Moreover, once the Kremlin's political failure finally led Ukraine from Russian influence and initiated the political direction of the country towards the United Europe. Updated Ukraine is not without reason sees in her political protection from Moscow indispensable future encroachments and hopes for economic assistance to the West. Provocation Russian gas supplies to Ukraine in winter, wearing clearly registered political character was edinodushno condemned the West, which shows the understanding of the danger exposed by the Empire young independent state.

   The loss of Ukraine greatly alter the geopolitical situation in the Russian Black Sea basin in the strategic plan. Deprived of the Crimea and Odessa, the Russian Black Sea fleet is already squeezed in the confined space of the Black Sea (in the case of war, the Bosphorus slams) does is trapped in the waters of Novorossiysk and in the shallow waters of the Azov Sea. In the future, the entire south-western flank of the Russian Empire almost remained without cover fleet. The only real way out of a difficult situation for Russia is to keep the port of Sevastopol after the end of the lease it from the Ukraine, and even better to recapture the entire Crimea. Russia considers Ukraine a lifetime of their ancestral lands, and therefore gave her the Crimea, the conquest of which cost Russia a lot of effort in the last Russian-Turkish wars. Of course, the Kremlin leaders could not think how inglorious end expects the USSR, and even more so that the Ukrainian people, the most fraternal of all fraternal peoples, suddenly wants to self-administer their own destiny.

   Who could have foreseen the Kremlin politicians that Ukraine will gain the status of an independent state, or the Crimean peninsula would not be a simple stroke of the pen was introduced in the Ukraine. However, here we must take into account one very important fact, which everyone as if accidentally forgotten, namely, that the Crimean peninsula was never a native Russian land, or, Crimea not, under any circumstances, would not be transferred to Ukraine. In one Russian warriors are right Crimea, is that the transfer of Crimea to Ukraine or Kievan Rus, let alone Ukraine, historically controlled the territory. In the dispute over Crimea forget the indigenous peoples who have been forcibly displaced from their native land for showing (although quite understandable) sympathy for the Germans during the Second World War. But even with this in mind, this punishment of an entire people is unprecedented and cruel. Then we would have with the Hungarians and Romanians deported somewhere in Yakutia. What Romanians, Germans themselves as the main culprits, move, say, to the North Pole.

The Crimean Tatars have disappeared in an instant by the will of the famous leader - the father of all peoples comrade. Stalin. It was the people, and gone forever. By the way, it is appropriate to note a very important historical fact reflected in a letter to the leaders of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee Mihoelsa, Feffer, Epstein Stalin, on the subject of creation in Crimea of the Jewish Autonomous Republic.

 In a letter registered office of the Stalin dated 15 February 1944, ie before the Crimean liberation and to the mass deportation of the indigenous people - Crimean Tatars, the leaders of the JAC Mikhoels, Epstein, Feffer proposed to create in the Crimea, no more no less, the Soviet Jewish socialist republic, arguing that it is associated with a happy fate of an entire people (http://scepsis.net/library/id_1632.html):
"With a view to the normalization of economic growth and development of Soviet Jewish culture, in order to maximize the mobilization of all forces of the Jewish people for the benefit of the Soviet homeland in order to complete the equation the situation of the Jewish masses among the fraternal peoples, we believe timely and appropriate, in the order of the decision of post-war problems of the question on the establishment of a Jewish Soviet socialist republic.
It seems to us that one of the most suitable areas was to the Crimea, which is most relevant to the requirements both in terms of roominess for relocation, and because of the existing successful experience in the development of the Jewish national districts there.
Creating a Jewish Soviet republic would just always allowed in a Bolshevik, in the spirit of the Leninist-Stalinist national policy issue of state-legal status of the Jewish people and the further development of its centuries-old culture. no one has been able to resolve this problem for many centuries, and it can only be solved in your great socialist country.
The construction of the Jewish Soviet republic would have given us considerable assistance and Jewish masses all over the world, wherever they may be "

   Stalin, perfectly understanding the influence of American Jews in the American policy, organized in 1942, the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, not just any international, namely Hebrew, in order to obtain assistance from America. Perhaps due to this circumstance, Roosevelt talks with Churchill and Stalin for the post-war world was inclined to listen to more of the latter, which subsequently turned out for America's Cold War. The leaders of the JAC, having great authority in America, and receiving direct financial support, it seems, feel great politicians, because the letter was similar to their request, and does not really request. While Stalin was understandably hesitated, Jewish Committee in 1944 have not demanded autonomy in Crimea, and the creation of the Jewish Soviet Socialist Republic, like other national republics, one can assume, and resulted in the decision to deport the indigenous people of Crimea. Over time, when Stalin no longer needed in America, he shot all imagines himself equal to his Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee leaders.
 
    Recently, the remnants of the Crimean people are trying to revive their community in their historical homeland, which negatively assessed the Russian media. Information, verging sometimes hysterical, that a potential threat subjected to almost all the international community in the case of the return of the Crimean Tatars, ie Muslims, it emphasizes especially on their land. This is understandable, because the indigenous people will fight to the death for their country, and if the Russian will take in head to regain the Crimea, they will get a second Chechnya. It is understood by the authorities in Kiev and apparently, so do not obstruct the restoration of the Crimean Tatar community, which in the future can count on autonomy within Ukraine. If the Jewish people have a right to their homeland after two thousand years, and the Crimean Tatars have no less right to live in their homeland, especially since only fifty years after the deportation.

    In this aspect, Russia claims to the Crimea deprived not only logic, but also immoral by the very nature and can be considered only in terms of the aggressive policy of the empire, which is agonizing, unfortunately ever more shows fangs.


06.02.06.
umairsaleem011
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August 12, 2016, 07:09:03 AM
 #2

Crimea is the land with the river that Justin Timberlake was singing about.
Nemo1024
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August 23, 2016, 06:28:30 PM
 #3

Shell we call Crimea by it's original name - Tavridia? Crimea of (Kirim) is a Tatar name, which stuck to the peninsular during the Tatar-Mongol occupation of Russia, when most of the igneous population of Russians, Greeks and Jews were enslaved or killed off.

Maybe the poster should actually bother with some historic research as to where Saint Vladimir was Christened, before he officially Christened Rus in Kiev (hint: on Tavridia)?


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“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
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August 23, 2016, 07:50:06 PM
 #4

Really glad that Crimea took matters into safe hands by democratic vote they accepted to rejoin Russia.
Otherwise it would have been a terrible bloodbath, they are now protected by the sane, instead of the insane.

The West deems it very differently though, through lies.
Not putting one example of it here, not worth what they said about it. 

And its gone.
Alik Bahshi (OP)
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August 23, 2016, 08:10:09 PM
 #5

Shell we call Crimea by it's original name - Tavridia? Crimea of (Kirim) is a Tatar name, which stuck to the peninsular during the Tatar-Mongol occupation of Russia, when most of the igneous population of Russians, Greeks and Jews were enslaved or killed off.

Maybe the poster should actually bother with some historic research as to where Saint Vladimir was Christened, before he officially Christened Rus in Kiev (hint: on Tavridia)?



Russian has never lived in the Crimea, to his Russian conquest in 1783. That is, the Russian did not live in the Crimea until the Mongol conquest of Russia.
bryant.coleman
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August 24, 2016, 03:44:47 PM
 #6

Shell we call Crimea by it's original name - Tavridia? Crimea of (Kirim) is a Tatar name, which stuck to the peninsular during the Tatar-Mongol occupation of Russia, when most of the igneous population of Russians, Greeks and Jews were enslaved or killed off.

Maybe the poster should actually bother with some historic research as to where Saint Vladimir was Christened, before he officially Christened Rus in Kiev (hint: on Tavridia)?



Russian has never lived in the Crimea, to his Russian conquest in 1783. That is, the Russian did not live in the Crimea until the Mongol conquest of Russia.

Crimea is historic Russian and Ukrainian homeland. Mongols from the East have no place in Crimea.

The so called Crimean Tatars first arrives in Crimea during the Mongol invasion of Russia. Before that, for thousands of years, it was inhabited by Slavs and other Christian groups such as Greeks and Armenians. As Nemo pointed out, after invading Crimea the Mongols (i.e Tatars) either exterminated or enslaved the native Slavic population.
Alik Bahshi (OP)
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August 24, 2016, 06:04:59 PM
 #7

Shell we call Crimea by it's original name - Tavridia? Crimea of (Kirim) is a Tatar name, which stuck to the peninsular during the Tatar-Mongol occupation of Russia, when most of the igneous population of Russians, Greeks and Jews were enslaved or killed off.

Maybe the poster should actually bother with some historic research as to where Saint Vladimir was Christened, before he officially Christened Rus in Kiev (hint: on Tavridia)?



Russian has never lived in the Crimea, to his Russian conquest in 1783. That is, the Russian did not live in the Crimea until the Mongol conquest of Russia.

Crimea is historic Russian and Ukrainian homeland. Mongols from the East have no place in Crimea.

The so called Crimean Tatars first arrives in Crimea during the Mongol invasion of Russia. Before that, for thousands of years, it was inhabited by Slavs and other Christian groups such as Greeks and Armenians. As Nemo pointed out, after invading Crimea the Mongols (i.e Tatars) either exterminated or enslaved the native Slavic population.


I'm sorry, but you do or do not know the history or deliberately lying. As is known, the Crimea and the South-eastern part of present-day Ukraine, as well as part of the territory inhabited by the Scythians of South Russia, which have no relation to the Slavs because they were Iranian-speaking people. With regard to the Crimea, the Greeks colonized the only edge of the coastal part of the Crimea, and never possessed the entire Crimea. Next, the Scythians vanished into history, they were replaced by Turkic people, the Khazars, Pechenegs, Cumans, and then came to the Crimea Tatars, and Russian have appeared in Crimea in 1783. Since then, as a result of the extermination of the Crimean Tatars, which continues to this day, from the indigenous people of Crimea were crumbs. And I want to say that whether Crimea true Russian territory, it would never have passed the Ukraine. 
bryant.coleman
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August 24, 2016, 06:42:47 PM
 #8

^^^^ You need to educate yourself about the history of Crimea.

Crimea was part of the Roman Empire. Once the Roman Empire crumbled, Crimea was occupied by European groups such as Goths (Germans), Huns, and Bulgars. After that, it came under the possession of the Slavs.

Quote
In the mid-10th century, the eastern area of Crimea was conquered by Prince Sviatoslav I of Kiev and became part of the Kievan Rus' principality of Tmutarakan. In 988, Prince Vladimir I of Kiev also captured the Byzantine town of Chersonesos (presently part of Sevastopol) where he later converted to Christianity. An impressive Russian Orthodox cathedral marks the location of this historic event.

Mongol invasion started in 1238. And that is how the Mongols (Tatars) arrived in Crimea.
Alik Bahshi (OP)
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August 24, 2016, 08:48:15 PM
 #9

^^^^ You need to educate yourself about the history of Crimea.

Crimea was part of the Roman Empire. Once the Roman Empire crumbled, Crimea was occupied by European groups such as Goths (Germans), Huns, and Bulgars. After that, it came under the possession of the Slavs.

Quote
In the mid-10th century, the eastern area of Crimea was conquered by Prince Sviatoslav I of Kiev and became part of the Kievan Rus' principality of Tmutarakan. In 988, Prince Vladimir I of Kiev also captured the Byzantine town of Chersonesos (presently part of Sevastopol) where he later converted to Christianity. An impressive Russian Orthodox cathedral marks the location of this historic event.

Mongol invasion started in 1238. And that is how the Mongols (Tatars) arrived in Crimea.

The Tartars  lived in the Crimea before the Slavs.
 This is history.
With regard Tmutarakan, it hazaraky city and the name of its Turkic. The Tatars in Crimea lived up to the capture of Russian Crimea. This is history.
With regard Tmutarakan, it hazaraky city and the name of its Turkic. With regard to the place of baptism of Prince Vladimir, then it is not known exactly, some believe Kiev, other Byzantine city of Hersonissos. But the fact of baptism does not prove in Hersonissos, a place that became Russian.
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August 25, 2016, 09:24:48 AM
 #10

Anyway past is history and the future belong to Russia. All oppositions to Crimea being part of the Russian Federation will be relayed to the dust bin of history.

Once the bridge is finished time to move and cease the coastal area and merge it by land with the all. The west is absolutely destabilized... As soon as it start to free fall: action.

Personally I would strongly support to clip those ukies on the west... Single pass... Just at least for once they see what a real military full superiority engagement looks like. And so that they will never forget... It has return to the motherland and will stay like this: accept it or die. Chose wisely.

/sarc /snowflakeshield /iammorevirtuousthanyou /2692 /pixelsonscreeen /fuckthemusep2p /p2p=love
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September 17, 2016, 04:22:01 PM
 #11

Crimea belongs to Ukraine. You can not just go and pick up a piece of land. Even if they belonged once Russia. It is necessary to respect the borders of neighboring states. After all this, and there is an international agreement to abide by them.
Masha Sha
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September 17, 2016, 04:24:28 PM
 #12

Crimea belongs to Ukraine. You can not just go and pick up a piece of land. Even if they belonged once Russia. It is necessary to respect the borders of neighboring states. After all this, and there is an international agreement to abide by them.

Don't you believe (independently of the reality on the ground) that some people may chose to change state? If the Crimeans want to be a territory of Russia why couldn't they? Isn't self determination not only becoming independent but equally the right to ask to join another country? If a part of Russia wanted to become Ukrainian would you see a problem in it?

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September 17, 2016, 04:41:53 PM
 #13

Crimea belongs to Ukraine. You can not just go and pick up a piece of land. Even if they belonged once Russia. It is necessary to respect the borders of neighboring states. After all this, and there is an international agreement to abide by them.

I think respecting the will of the people who voted to fuck off from Ukraine, was highly admirable indeed.
That is what you call real democracy at work.
Otherwise a blood bath would have been propagated, by those Yankee corrupt money take all puppets. 

And its gone.
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September 17, 2016, 04:46:10 PM
 #14

Crimea belongs to Ukraine. You can not just go and pick up a piece of land. Even if they belonged once Russia. It is necessary to respect the borders of neighboring states. After all this, and there is an international agreement to abide by them.

I think respecting the will of the people who voted to fuck off from Ukraine, was highly admirable indeed.
That is what you call real democracy at work.
Otherwise a blood bath would have been propagated, by those Yankee corrupt money take all puppets. 

This were I don't agree... an hostile take over took place in the us. So the Yankees can't be held accountable on the deeds of their occupational gov but only on not removing it earlier. Obama could well become the tipping point and from there a restauration to the resilience and foresight of the constitution can easily be reestablished.

/sarc /snowflakeshield /iammorevirtuousthanyou /2692 /pixelsonscreeen /fuckthemusep2p /p2p=love
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September 17, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
 #15

The Ukrainian government are the puppets, doing the dirty deeds, and corrupt to boot.
Power struggles have been going on for a long time now, and of course any one from Crimea, that wanted to leave Ukraine, should have had the backing of the West.
They did leave democratically, but the West say otherwise, now they are stupid for even saying it, they themselves support uprisings against governments that they deem unfit, and call it democracy, they don't know their arse from their elbow, only two faced comments will do, double standards as per usual.

Can you be more specific on this?

Quote
an hostile take over took place in the us

What take over in the US, What has this to do with UKraine?

Please tell me what Obama can do..... Nuland/Regime change FAIL or McCain/Ukraine's destiny lay in Europe  Grin

How Hillary Clinton Is Responsible For Civil War In Ukraine and The Possible War With Russia

And its gone.
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September 17, 2016, 07:27:06 PM
 #16

The Ukrainian government are the puppets, doing the dirty deeds, and corrupt to boot.
Power struggles have been going on for a long time now, and of course any one from Crimea, that wanted to leave Ukraine, should have had the backing of the West.
They did leave democratically, but the West say otherwise, now they are stupid for even saying it, they themselves support uprisings against governments that they deem unfit, and call it democracy, they don't know their arse from their elbow, only two faced comments will do, double standards as per usual.

Can you be more specific on this?

Quote
an hostile take over took place in the us

What take over in the US, What has this to do with UKraine?

Please tell me what Obama can do..... Nuland/Regime change FAIL or McCain/Ukraine's destiny lay in Europe  Grin

How Hillary Clinton Is Responsible For Civil War In Ukraine and The Possible War With Russia

It's hard to know who is in the take over or not. For example look at the media conspiracy to bash trump... I would say that it's a consortium of corporations that couldn't survive in the orginial USA. For example gmo labeling is not the norm... or how fracking is allowed to pollute waters, how nuke plant don't have insurances or how banks who failed didn't get wiped out, or how like censorship is practiced by certain social media and finally how us laws are superseded by international laws... you can take even the coming loss of icann.

/sarc /snowflakeshield /iammorevirtuousthanyou /2692 /pixelsonscreeen /fuckthemusep2p /p2p=love
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September 17, 2016, 07:29:27 PM
 #17

According to the latest referandum, Crimea belongs to Russia. People live there voted for this and it is done. They didn't want to stay with Ukraine, they have chosen to join Russia. A big kick to the Ukraine and Europe. In the 21th century, Russia gained land. That's a huuuge huge huge success for Russia.

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September 17, 2016, 08:14:10 PM
 #18

According to the latest referandum, Crimea belongs to Russia. People live there voted for this and it is done. They didn't want to stay with Ukraine, they have chosen to join Russia. A big kick to the Ukraine and Europe. In the 21th century, Russia gained land. That's a huuuge huge huge success for Russia.
You have a Turkish background. Kurds voted for independence. Do you have the same opinion about Kurdistan?

...loteo...
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September 17, 2016, 10:19:02 PM
 #19

According to the latest referandum, Crimea belongs to Russia. People live there voted for this and it is done. They didn't want to stay with Ukraine, they have chosen to join Russia. A big kick to the Ukraine and Europe. In the 21th century, Russia gained land. That's a huuuge huge huge success for Russia.
You have a Turkish background. Kurds voted for independence. Do you have the same opinion about Kurdistan?

Yes. They can have their stinking land. I wont ever go there so I don't care.

 But you have been misinformed about something. It not only the land they demand. They also want the infrastructure and money. They don't want to become independent in instant because they will get fucked in instant. That won't work.

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September 17, 2016, 10:36:13 PM
 #20

"People voted on referandum to join Russia" Not exactly that. Firstly Russia send their army forces to Crimea, they beated Ukraine army. And only then was referandum, which was controlled by Russia, so it wasn't 100% free people choice. This is why almost all countries didn't accepted Crimea as part of Russia. I would understand if Crimea would had referandum without Russia intervention.

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