Bitcoin ecosystem: Inflationary

[Sir Alpha_goy]

You have all been fooled.

Bitcoin is by no means deflationary / decentralized.

Bitcoin ecosystem defined: Bitcoin, the exchanges, the mining farms the altcoins, all the forums, the chats, and the fake news puppets.

You are nothing without centralized exchanges, you are nothing without the altcoins, and you are nothing without the huge mining farms.

21 Million Bitcoins is a farce.

With over 690 alternative currencies and counting under the Bitcoin umbrella you can "mine" (print) digital currencies forever.

On top of that you have the infinite fiat machine fueling you.

You can pump and dump with your centralized coin exchanges over and over again just like Wall Street.

You can create fake take overs and let them splinter.

The clock says your time is almost up.

You boys and girls better run and hide.

First hack and run already used as fake reason why price tumbled.

So many bagholders enlisted now.

They will leave you here without even thinking twice.

The next BTC dump will leave ETH true believers crying.

It will be like a desert soon.

The Bitcoin oasis will be more like a mirage.

Listen or not makes no difference to me.

I warn and you can choose what to do.

[actmyname]

You have all been fooled.
You are nothing without centralized exchanges, you are nothing without the altcoins, and you are nothing without the huge mining farms.

Wow, really? You mean to say that bitcoin's only value is held in fiat and no merchants use bitcoin as an option?

We rely on useless altcoins... wait, for what exactly?

21 Million Bitcoins is a farce.

With over 690 alternative currencies and counting under the Bitcoin umbrella you can "mine" (print) digital currencies forever.

You can pump and dump with your centralized coin exchanges over and over again just like Wall Street.

... Except that they're worth nothing. Mining hundredths of pennies is not worth anyone's time.

[franky1]

i think the OP is having an emotional day.
im guessing he had a bag of alts in bitfinex and has just found out he has lost.
and now raging about it

saying bitcoin is inflationary due to alts is like saying gold is inflationary due to copper, platinum and aluminum

what i would say as a rational thought about exchange hacks and coins in circulation is this:
out of all the coins in circulation the "hacker" has over 100,000 of them but exchange users 'think' they too have 100,000 of them
this is now infact a fractional reserve scenario(borderline ponzi).

people 'think' they have real assets owed to them, stored in a centralized service. I'm afraid to say this, those real assets are gone. and all the users of that service are left with are worthless database entries which users think they will at sometime be able to withdraw in full thanks to other investors.

bitcoin itself is not inflationary and you cannot simply magic up new bitcoins with a click of a button in a centralized service. but the "bitcoins" debt appearing on exchange users balance is not a bitcoin. never has been a bitcoin. its just an IOU

i hope that clarifies the point about centralized services.

i personally have been hoarding my bitcoins offline, i gave up on exchanges in 2013 and have been thankful the (long term) deflationary nature has caused the value of bitcoin to rise (ignoring the short term drama/speculation)

but if anyone else is holding bitcoin, please stop thinking that exchanges are a great storage place, if you are going to do one thing, only play around with pocket money amounts (amounts you wont cry about). and if you are foolish to put your whole hoard into an exchange. do a few trades and withdraw. stop using exchanges as a long term storage place

[7788bitcoin]

I guess inflationary and deflationary can sometimes be looked at in relativity. With the supply halving and without an increase in demand, the price might even decrease. However, I am quite sure the demand for bticoin will continue to increase and the value of each coin will increase faster than it is mined.

[BathSaltsDealer]

You have all been fooled.

Oy vey...

[European Central Bank]

Guess the op may as well sell his account since it's all over.

And on principle he should only accept a combination of quark and auroracoin.

[BathSaltsDealer]

You have all been fooled.

Oy vey...

What? No character assassination?

You want I should call you behaimeh goy, boychick?

[thejaytiesto]

Sounds like a Bitfinex bagholder to me.

Bitcoin has a limit of 21 million coins, the fact that you can create infinite altcoins is a non argument. So what? It makes no sense. Those altcoins don't have the developers and network effect of Bitcoin, they are no real competition, but people is free to create and speculate. I mean what's the point? Its called free market.

If fiat didn't exist, Bicoin would be earned directly throught exchange of good and services as it should be, so also it's not a real problem.

[topiOleg]

My main aim is to aid in flushing out the bad actors in BItcoin. One thing that you all need to learn is that to be your own bank you have to learn how to breathe. When your asset is sick or infested with a virus (centralization and greed) you have to either call a doctor or run like hell.

I think I got you, basically all merchants converting the Bitcoin immediatelly to fiat by using centralized services, most people are in to be more fiat rich... But what about the Bitcoin gambling, its one of the area where fiat is not involved at all (except the fact we feel how much one Bitcoin is worth in USD value).

The situation is not optimal, but you cant have full Bitcoin only economy cycles unless most people using Bitcoin so there is no reason to convert to fiat anymore. So the aim should be more people actually using Bitcoin, even though initialy they might be interested in fiat profits only, once everybody accepts Bitcoin, there should be little reason to think in fiat terms anymore. Maybe something like internet evolution, first used by technically skilled people only, then for porn as well, but now almost everybody using internet for all kind of stuffs, and nobody thinks internet is just for geeks or porno anymore.

[Hazir]

Bitcoin is still young invention. We have no idea how it will scale in the future. But some of your arguments are really stretched and some are totally invalid.
Most altcoins are shit with zero impact and no real force behind them. Only like top 10 alt coins with the top market cap represent something and bitcoin is not really dependent on any of them.
So I have no idea why you even mentioned altcoins in OP. About FIAT - it is still an universal benchmark, so it is only natural we are using it to determine purchasing power of bitcoin.

[SuperShill]

If btc dropped to a dollar it would
Fly back up as every bought

[thejaytiesto]

Forgot to add and emphasize on how stupid the argument is "there are like 690 other coins so bitcoin has no real value is".
Don't you see that that only precisely proves even more how superior and valuable bitcoins is? It wouldn't matter if there are 1000000 altcoins, Bitcoin will be king, the more altcoins that are no competition for Bitcoin, the strongest it becomes since it means no other coin can replace it.

[unamis76]

You have all been fooled.

The next BTC dump will leave ETH true believers crying.

All these threads make me remember this post by Lauda... They all have major points in common, although sometimes being from different points of view.

[Hazir]

Bitcoin is still young invention. We have no idea how it will scale in the future. But some of your arguments are really stretched and some are totally invalid.
Most altcoins are shit with zero impact and no real force behind them. Only like top 10 alt coins with the top market cap represent something and bitcoin is not really dependent on any of them.
So I have no idea why you even mentioned altcoins in OP. About FIAT - it is still an universal benchmark, so it is only natural we are using it to determine purchasing power of bitcoin.

A universal benchmark that is so corrupt that sparked Bitcoin's birth?

If Bitcoin is better then it should act better.

You cannot use thin air currency to determine your purchasing power.

You must create your purchasing power by backing it with an asset.

Fiat is not an asset.

I agree that FiAT is not good, it is corrupt, with totally unclear and questionable quantitative easing methods behind it.
But FIAT is still dominant despite all of that and is backed by government which is still force to reckon with (at least in most cases).

Some people can say that Bitcoin in its current state is more thin air currency that FIAT, because it is volatile, whimsical, susceptible to either bad or good news alike.
In our current reality we can't really use Gold or precious metals standard as freely as in the past - which is shame IMO. And bitcoin as an asset is not there yet.

[MingLee]

The Bitcoin ecosystem is inflationary only because altcoins are created, according to what you're saying. A majority of altcoins that are not accepted by anyone somehow change the amount of Bitcoin available? All they do is open up different opportunities for people and they do absolutely nothing to Bitcoin (aside from aiding with speculation) and just give people different means of investing/purchasing using a different currency.

It's like the current world financial system. You have the Euro, Yuan, Yen, Ruble, Pound, (alts made by other entities) etc, and they are all primarily supported by and traded with the USD (Bitcoin). It's not like having these currencies makes more USD avaliable (while more USD is made avaliable through other means). It just offers more mediums.

[Kprawn]

Guess the op may as well sell his account since it's all over.

And on principle he should only accept a combination of quark and auroracoin.

Nah, his account is making him money... he is getting well paid to spread misinformation. Look at his post history.. it tells the whole story.   I would take Crypto currencies over Fiat money every day,

because one of these days, toilet paper will have more value than fiat.   You know these guys are getting desperate, when they pull Alt coins into the discussion. None of these Alt coins has any

bearing on what Bitcoin are doing. Bitcoin stands on it's own legs, they do not need banks and governments to keep them going. The bigger fools are the ones who sees a future in Fiat currencies.  

[MingLee]

The Bitcoin ecosystem is inflationary only because altcoins are created, according to what you're saying. A majority of altcoins that are not accepted by anyone somehow change the amount of Bitcoin available? All they do is open up different opportunities for people and they do absolutely nothing to Bitcoin (aside from aiding with speculation) and just give people different means of investing/purchasing using a different currency.

It's like the current world financial system. You have the Euro, Yuan, Yen, Ruble, Pound, (alts made by other entities) etc, and they are all primarily supported by and traded with the USD (Bitcoin). It's not like having these currencies makes more USD avaliable (while more USD is made avaliable through other means). It just offers more mediums.

The altcoins increase the likelihood of the Bitcoin ecosystem reaching individuals. If Bitcoin was deflationary then its reach would be limited to how those coins distributed in the ether. Speaking of ether Just look at Ethereum. I am hearing that coin being mentioned inside communications within a company I work for that has nothing to do with BItcoin. That altcoin just exposed the blockchain by being a derivative of Bitcoin.

To your second point I somewhat agree accept for you saying that the other currencies are just mediums. The other currencies allow populations of people to expand or contract based on their value. That is a very powerful thing.

All in all there is a reason why the current fiat scheme is at odds right now. My argument is that we should not be copying it if Bitcoin wants to survive. People may not agree with the parallels that I present but that is ok.

I can see some of your parallels and there are some that I agree with, but a lot of altcoins are just harmless speculation tools. If we have a ton of high market cap cryptos then I can see the issues that start to arise from that, but as long as we keep it down to only one or two ethereum-level cryptos we shouldn't have too many issues in my opinion. I agree with your last point as well, though, copies have to be kept to a minimum.