Are smart contracts doomed?

[Abiky]

Seeing past events like The DAO hack, the Ethereum hard fork, and most recently the inception of an alternative chain (or should I say original chain) called Ethereum Classic, makes me wonder whenever the term "smart contracts" is already doomed.

Its aim (for ETH) was supposed to be an immutable smart contracts platform, free some censorship, and mutability. However, with ETH's hard fork, all of this has gone to oblivion.

Now, it is up to whenever smart contracts can survive or not as I would say that the whole Ethereum ecosystem is doomed. If I'm wrong, then please correct me.

Even if ETH reaches Casper PoS stage, it may be very difficult to gain the trust (ETH Foundation) it had once.

What do you think?

[bathrobehero]

Why do you always keep spamming new threads with random questions you couldn't care less?

[European Central Bank]

The problem with the whole thing is that most people in crypto forget there's a real world outside this bubble and more often than not those boring old laws are still gonna apply.

even if there was a successful and secure smart contract system, there's no way any legit company would touch it without tons of investigation and maybe a law change or two.

the legal side of things moves like a glacier but you can't ignore it.

[Abiky]

Why do you always keep spamming new threads with random questions you couldn't care less?

Why would you say that? I only asked because I am concerned about the future of smart contracts on the blockchain. Also, the reason that I make new threads is to clarify some doubts, in which I properly reply according to other members responses. 

[bathrobehero]

Why do you always keep spamming new threads with random questions you couldn't care less?

Why would you say that? I only asked because I am concerned about the future of smart contracts on the blockchain. Also, the reason that I make new threads is to clarify some doubts, in which I properly reply according to other members responses. 

Not really. You created 3 threads about different questions in 16 minutes and you do this since forever and you barely ever follow up on them.

[Zer0Sum]

The problem with the whole thing is that most people in crypto forget there's a real world outside this bubble and more often than not those boring old laws are still gonna apply.

even if there was a successful and secure smart contract system, there's no way any legit company would touch it without tons of investigation and maybe a law change or two.

the legal side of things moves like a glacier but you can't ignore it.

Exactly, human legal systems revolve around concepts like "intent" to resolve contracts...
While Ethereum has just demonstrated that even trivial "code law" leads quickly to massive cross-border clusterfucks.

Wonder why there are no lawsuits over Ethereum? What sane law firm would get involved with these nuts?

I'm afraid that the whole crypto-anarchic "perfect world" is just a millennial wet dream...
And requires near complete ignorance of human history and human institutions to buy into.

[Abiky]

Not really. You created 3 threads about different questions in 16 minutes and you do this since forever and you barely ever follow up on them.

Of course I do. Some of them I am able to reply, but others I just read the advices, and tips and keep them for myself. Each thread that I find something useful on it, I bookmark it to read it later. Just to be careful not making any non-constructive post, I avoid replying in some threads whenever it is necessary. Still, I have so many questions to ask, and some many doubts to clarify so if I can't find the answer I will make a thread related to it. Every day, I'm learning something new.

By the way, I've always been fascinated about smart contracts, but seeing the decision that ETH took with the hard fork and The DAO hack, it brings some concerns about its future and the security of the same. I plan to develop dapps sometime in the future.  

[bathrobehero]

Not really. You created 3 threads about different questions in 16 minutes and you do this since forever and you barely ever follow up on them.

Of course I do. Some of them I am able to reply, but others I just read the advices, and tips and keep them for myself. Each thread that I find something useful on it, I bookmark it to read it later. Just to be careful not making any non-constructive post, I avoid replying in some threads whenever it is necessary. Still, I have so many questions to ask, and some many doubts to clarify so if I can't find the answer I will make a thread related to it. Every day, I'm learning something new.

By the way, I've always been fascinated about smart contracts, but seeing the decision that ETH took with the hard fork and The DAO hack, it brings some concerns about its future and the security of the same. I plan to develop dapps sometime in the future.  

If that's the case, good for you. It just might look like spamming threads to advertise or whatever.


Anyway, to actually add something to the discussion I think smart contracts will be fine and thrive but The DAO was terribly executed - even though it had a disclaimer. But the followup (Eth fork) was even worse - especially since The DAO had a disclaimer.

I also strongly believe that it was a huge mistake that a single smart contract could tie so much of Eth's supply.

[LoyceV]

Yes, they're doomed. I've said it even before the hard fork, and I am surprised ETH still has value left.
It turned out nobody (except for the guy they call "the Attacker") understood the contract, and apparently people invested hundreds of millions of dollars in something they didn't understand.
On top of that, it turned out ETH isn't decentralized at all, and the code is not law as it should be.
To summarize: smart contracts are too complicated for users and you can't rely on them anyway! That makes them completely useless. And they were useless already, as there was not a single application for it in the first place! All there was, was "future-talk" like: "you can use it to rent a car", which completely ignores the fact that the contract with a car is not the problem, it's all the manual checks that are required.

[European Central Bank]

I can't wait for the first morally and financially bankrupt entity to attempt to sue an unstoppable blockchain that offers humans frictionless banking, gaming, and for the first time ever in human history, uncensorable blogging.

what people tend to forget is that the end users of any crypto are people. they're prone to greed, fear, coercion. ethereum just provided us with the perfect example. if legal heavyweights get heavy expect any concrete principles to be thrown away immediately.

[Abiky]

STEEM (Reddit), and its open source clones BTS (Wall St) & PeerPlays (Vegas) are perfect examples of targeted real world applications of fast and scalable smart contract capable blockchains and their respective (competitive industry).

Exactly. They are going successfully without the need of Ethereum or even The DAO.

even if there was a successful and secure smart contract system, there's no way any legit company would touch it without tons of investigation and maybe a law change or two.

the legal side of things moves like a glacier but you can't ignore it.

I can't wait for the first morally and financially bankrupt entity to attempt to sue an unstoppable blockchain that offers humans frictionless banking, gaming, and for the first time ever in human history, uncensorable blogging.

That is another point. Blockchains make everything virtually unstoppable free from the censorship of governments, and any other entity. That is why it is also great for smart contracts, but it is still in its early stages and unless they make it more secure it may not go far than from it is right now. Just my opinion. 

[dinofelis]

Seeing past events like The DAO hack, the Ethereum hard fork, and most recently the inception of an alternative chain (or should I say original chain) called Ethereum Classic, makes me wonder whenever the term "smart contracts" is already doomed.

Its aim (for ETH) was supposed to be an immutable smart contracts platform, free some censorship, and mutability. However, with ETH's hard fork, all of this has gone to oblivion.

Now, it is up to whenever smart contracts can survive or not as I would say that the whole Ethereum ecosystem is doomed. If I'm wrong, then please correct me.

Even if ETH reaches Casper PoS stage, it may be very difficult to gain the trust (ETH Foundation) it had once.

What do you think?

I think ethereum is doomed, and COMPLEX smart contracts are doomed.  Ethereum is doomed because it is Turing complete, which makes for uncheckable code.   Complex smart contracts are doomed, because one cannot write bug-free guaranteed complex code in a Turing complete system.
But simple systems, with a finite and small "possibility tree" are checkable and possible.

There are also less "legal" problems with simple contracts, exactly because of their simplicity.    A multi-sig transaction is such an example of "smart contract".  A multisig with 5 out of 10 needed signatures for instance, is the same as a majority vote smart contract.  Inter-chain distributed exchanges are examples of smart contract.  The individual peer-to-peer links on the Lightning network are examples of smart contract.

But one can think of many other applications.  For instance, instead of a DDoScoin, one could have a smart contract that rewards a DDoS attack.   One could have a smart contract rewarding pen testers (you put a file on a computer to be pen tested, and you give the hash of it in the smart contract: if the pen tester can obtain the file to the contract, he gets the reward and you know that your computer has been compromised).
One could think of more involved arbitration on things like openbazaar.  One could have smart contracts on rents of a car with some guarantees.

In fact, most of these small smart contracts can probably be implemented in the bitcoin scripting language (some with some difficulty).  I think that the error was to build complex smart contracts.  That's not smart.

[dinofelis]

That is another point. Blockchains make everything virtually unstoppable free from the censorship of governments, and any other entity. That is why it is also great for smart contracts, but it is still in its early stages and unless they make it more secure it may not go far than from it is right now. Just my opinion. 

That only makes sense if these chains also implement anonymity.  Otherwise, it is too easy to go after the "guilty" and punish them in the real world, or punish those that agree on transactions with them (see the DAO hacker, see the "RHG"...).

For instance, if you obtain according to the smart contract (code = law) a certain amount of tokens, but "real world justice" finds that you shouldn't, then if you can be traced, one can allow you to get the tokens, but force you to pay back their value or a multiple of it "in the real world".

Imagine the DAO hacker being caught, one could have let him have his (former) ETH tokens, but oblige him to pay $60 million to the DAO owners who make themselves known.   This would let the smart contract run as programmed, but applying a "real world correction" that undoes it in practice.  To avoid this, one should, by all means, have an anonymous smart contract system.

[Munti]

Yes, they're doomed. I've said it even before the hard fork, and I am surprised ETH still has value left.
It turned out nobody (except for the guy they call "the Attacker") understood the contract, and apparently people invested hundreds of millions of dollars in something they didn't understand.
On top of that, it turned out ETH isn't decentralized at all, and the code is not law as it should be.
To summarize: smart contracts are too complicated for users and you can't rely on them anyway! That makes them completely useless. And they were useless already, as there was not a single application for it in the first place! All there was, was "future-talk" like: "you can use it to rent a car", which completely ignores the fact that the contract with a car is not the problem, it's all the manual checks that are required.

I agree with everything you said, except smart contracts being useless. BitBay and other coins are successfully using smart contracts. There is no way you can exploit or break BitBays smart contracts. It's been out there for approx. 18 months now, and is thoroughly tested.

[ja23]

I think NXT/ARDOR might be the solution to those hacking problems. If business research Ethereum vs ARDOR, then the ARDOR would be the better option. It's just that Ethereum is so hyped. I just hope I'm right and ARDOR becomes big, since it really does seem to be on to something.

[Sourgummies]

Nope, they are just starting and like any new tech it takes time to get it right. Just hold on and continue being patient and you'll see good working mass marketing SC's in no time.

[funsponge]

Bitbays smart contracts work and if you are not aware of the work that is going on you should take a bit of time to see what they are developing, same goes with syscoin too! Over the next 12 months they both will increase in popularity and price for sure.

[Abiky]

I agree with everything you said, except smart contracts being useless. BitBay and other coins are successfully using smart contracts. There is no way you can exploit or break BitBays smart contracts. It's been out there for approx. 18 months now, and is thoroughly tested.

Exactly. So in my opinion, I think that sometime in the future ETH would cease to exist and only the term smart contract will be used in general for all things blockchain related. For example, it could be a sidechain right from within Bitcoin to implement the ability to use smart contracts. In fact, Rootstock is making progress and I think that it will be the next big thing. 

[Ethertrader1]

Smart contracts are not dead, but The DAO and Ethereum may be headed down the wrong path. Its proven to be faulty with inherent issues. Here is a good article about how Synereo would prevent such an incident such as The DAO disaster. http://themerkle.com/dao-attack-nullified-using-synereos-smart-contracting-language/

[Munti]

It just occurred to me that we need a definition of smart contracts to be able to answer OP's question.
Is there any definition that is commonly accepted?
If not, how do you guys define smart contract?