|
optimator (OP)
|
 |
March 26, 2013, 01:26:43 PM |
|
If someone was arrested for drugs and there was a large some of money, the government would confiscate the money.
That money would not be available to the defendant to defend himself. Under what authority can the government do this? Is seems I even remember reading about a federal court case that supported this "right" of the government.
Why doesn't this violate the defendant's due process right?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bitcoin mining is now a specialized and very risky industry, just like gold mining. Amateur miners are unlikely to make much money, and may even lose money. Bitcoin is much more than just mining, though!
|
|
|
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
BIGMERVE
|
|
March 26, 2013, 03:49:05 PM |
|
I think the reasoning is that the money is part of the evidence. Just like if someone is accused of shooting someone the police are allowed to take the gun and use it as evidence. If someone is suspected of a crime and money is involved than that money needs to be kept as evidence, so it doesn't disappear.
|
|
|
|
casascius
Mike Caldwell
VIP
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1136
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
|
|
March 26, 2013, 03:55:57 PM |
|
Under what authority can the government do this?
Under the rule of "possession is nine tenths of the law". That's one reason why Bitcoin is so revolutionary. I'm not saying that I support drug dealers, but now there's another option to store your cash besides having to choose between loaning it to a bank that might never give it back, and stuffing it in your mattress where it's vulnerable to theft and fire. With Bitcoin you can store your money in an encrypted paper wallet, or encrypted digital wallet. You can keep multiple copies of the wallet in some places, and multiple copies of the encryption key/password in other places. Only when the key/password and the wallet are brought together can the money be stolen, and only when all copies of the key/password or all copies of the wallet are destroyed can the money be lost. |
Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable. I never believe them. If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins. I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion. Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice. Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
|
|
|
|
nwbitcoin
|
|
March 26, 2013, 08:52:27 PM |
|
We have laws in the EU for the proceeds of crime, so if the money was gained due to a criminal act, the government can seize it! I would assume that would be true for their bitcoins as well! Of course, getting access to a brain wallet is a different matter! The fact a law exists, doesn't mean its enforceable!  |
*Image Removed* I use Localbitcoins to sell bitcoins for GBP by bank transfer!
|
|
|
|
Jenger
|
|
March 27, 2013, 12:42:19 AM |
|
Someone I know just got busted by the dea with a large quantity of money. They confiscated all of it as evidence on the basis that the defendant doesn't have a job.
I don't get how when they do big seizures, the confiscate cars, boats, houses, etc. They must have a shit ton of evidence proving that they bought all that with drug money.
|
|
|
|
malevolent
can into space
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3472
Merit: 1721
|
|
March 27, 2013, 12:44:54 AM |
|
Someone I know just got busted by the dea with a large quantity of money. They confiscated all of it as evidence on the basis that the defendant doesn't have a job.
I don't get how when they do big seizures, the confiscate cars, boats, houses, etc. They must have a shit ton of evidence proving that they bought all that with drug money.
In my country first they seize, put you in prison for a year or two, and then start looking for evidence  |
Signature space available for rent.
|
|
|
|
Jenger
|
|
March 27, 2013, 12:48:21 AM |
|
he'll be doing like 10yrs in prison.. caught with over 5oz of ecstasy with intent to distribute. 1st degree felony at 20  Along with a ton of other 2nd & 3rd degree. They even took his cell phones, computer & ipad. |
|
|
|
|
optimator (OP)
|
|
March 27, 2013, 02:57:30 AM |
|
I think the reasoning is that the money is part of the evidence. Just like if someone is accused of shooting someone the police are allowed to take the gun and use it as evidence. If someone is suspected of a crime and money is involved than that money needs to be kept as evidence, so it doesn't disappear.
That makes sense. If some junky with a $500 / day habit is found with $10,000 and no bank account then we can assume that $10,000 is drug money. But isn't that a slippery slope? Imagine if kim dotcom was in the US. Everything he owned, every asset would have been locked up tighter than a frogs ass underwater. He'd be left with nothing to defend himself. And shouldn't everyone (even the junky with $10,000 cash) be able to defend themselves? If they're guilty then pay back the money. I just can't figure out how people accept the confiscation of assets before a trial as OK. |
|
|
|
|
BIGMERVE
|
|
March 27, 2013, 03:19:31 AM |
|
I think the reasoning is that the money is part of the evidence. Just like if someone is accused of shooting someone the police are allowed to take the gun and use it as evidence. If someone is suspected of a crime and money is involved than that money needs to be kept as evidence, so it doesn't disappear.
That makes sense. If some junky with a $500 / day habit is found with $10,000 and no bank account then we can assume that $10,000 is drug money. But isn't that a slippery slope? Imagine if kim dotcom was in the US. Everything he owned, every asset would have been locked up tighter than a frogs ass underwater. He'd be left with nothing to defend himself. And shouldn't everyone (even the junky with $10,000 cash) be able to defend themselves? If they're guilty then pay back the money. I just can't figure out how people accept the confiscation of assets before a trial as OK. I see what your saying but the police and prosecutors need to make sure all the evidence doesn't disappear. They have rules and laws on what they can a can't confiscate. They will only confiscate something if they are sure it was the proceeds of a crime. If something is confiscated that is legitimate the police will return it. |
|
|
|
|
optimator (OP)
|
|
March 27, 2013, 03:32:32 AM |
|
I see what your saying but the police and prosecutors need to make sure all the evidence doesn't disappear. They have rules and laws on what they can a can't confiscate. They will only confiscate something if they are sure it was the proceeds of a crime. If something is confiscated that is legitimate the police will return it.
Right. It wouldn't be good if you hired cousin vinney at $1,000 / hour to defend you. Basically siphoning off all the illicit money. What got me thinking about it was this article http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/04/04/was-12000-a-restaurant-tip-or-drug-money/ about a waitress getting a $12,000 tip, turning the money into the police as "lost" and then the police confiscating the money as drug money. |
|
|
|
|
BIGMERVE
|
|
March 27, 2013, 03:41:29 AM |
|
I see what your saying but the police and prosecutors need to make sure all the evidence doesn't disappear. They have rules and laws on what they can a can't confiscate. They will only confiscate something if they are sure it was the proceeds of a crime. If something is confiscated that is legitimate the police will return it.
Right. It wouldn't be good if you hired cousin vinney at $1,000 / hour to defend you. Basically siphoning off all the illicit money. What got me thinking about it was this article http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/04/04/was-12000-a-restaurant-tip-or-drug-money/ about a waitress getting a $12,000 tip, turning the money into the police as "lost" and then the police confiscating the money as drug money. Yes saw that story all over the place. However, the police were justified in their actions. It is highly unusual for someone to have $10,000 of cash on them, and especially to give that as a tip. The police took the money as evidence and proceded with an investiongation. The investigation showed it was legit money and they gave it all back to the waitress a couple days later. source: http://abcnews.go.com/US/waitress-12000-tip-back-police/story?id=16087809#.UVJqBFuUPFk |
|
|
|
CharlesPonzi
Member
Offline
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
|
|
March 27, 2013, 08:20:43 PM |
|
The money is charged with a crime and when it cant defend itself the state takes possession.
|
I landed in this country with $2.50 in cash and $1 million in hopes, and those hopes never left me.
|
|
|
TECSHARE
In memoriam
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3318
Merit: 1958
First Exclusion Ever
|
|
March 29, 2013, 10:00:22 AM |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wardrick
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
|
|
March 31, 2013, 09:44:55 AM |
|
It's just another way for the government to get free money IMO. The least they could do is donate drug money to some sort of charity or foundation. It could also be put toward keeping the criminal alive in prison, instead of using honest people's tax money to pay for it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
optimator (OP)
|
|
March 31, 2013, 03:55:49 PM |
|
It's just another way for the government to get free money IMO. The least they could do is donate drug money to some sort of charity or foundation. It could also be put toward keeping the criminal alive in prison, instead of using honest people's tax money to pay for it.
I have to agree. And the more I think about it the more I believe that everyone, no matter how distasteful, should be innocent until proven guilty. If we have drug money or bank robbery money being siphoned off to pay legal fees, that's just part of the price we pay for living and participating in a free society. Freezing assets because you are a person of interest? That sounds very unreasonable to me. |
|
|
|
|
