Two things are certain: Bitcoin and Taxes

[iv4n]

Like you said transaction fees, that means who ever wish to send bitcoin will need to pay transaction fee, no matter is it for gambling or trading, or buying pizza. From beginning I was thinking about this connection between governments and blockchain/bitcoin. I always thought how interesting will be when they decide to get into blockchain/bitcoins, and how they are just investigate what is this all about. Now I think they don't know what to do with btc, cause in beginning they thought bitcoin don't have future, and all of a sudden btc worth a lot, and more and more people are joining. They didn't expect this, and now entering and taxing bitcoin will be hard for them. There is TOR`s, VPN`s and other services, anyone can skip government tax system.

[jackg]

Like you said transaction fees, that means who ever wish to send bitcoin will need to pay transaction fee, no matter is it for gambling or trading, or buying pizza. From beginning I was thinking about this connection between governments and blockchain/bitcoin. I always thought how interesting will be when they decide to get into blockchain/bitcoins, and how they are just investigate what is this all about. Now I think they don't know what to do with btc, cause in beginning they thought bitcoin don't have future, and all of a sudden btc worth a lot, and more and more people are joining. They didn't expect this, and now entering and taxing bitcoin will be hard for them. There is TOR`s, VPN`s and other services, anyone can skip government tax system.

Yep. That's highly possible that you can easily skip taxes and it's very hard to trace.
If you use TOR then your IP is almost completely hidden and is very hard to trace (unless there are instrumental methods avaliable to test it).
Things are also encrypted by VPNs and Tor and are much harder to get to the root sender. Also, i they come into it too late then it's there fault. We cannot work on a voluntary status as the largest company is always going to be the one that can avoid tax. When the largest comapanies, in fiat, cannot be tracked in their ta avasion (such as google) then there's no hope for the government tracking Bitcoin.

[shinratensei_]

Well since the government in our didnt accept bitcoin yet as a way e-currency then their is no such way that they will able to get taxes from us. Well i think that is also the reason why government does not accept it because it may be hard for them to monitor

In my minds, at first, bitcoin is made to avoid the system is giving by government because the government is very giving limitations for their civilians. like sending a large of an amount of another people, maybe you will always get examination before.

[ClownSpider]

Yes....let the character assassinations flow.

 

Anyone else have any key terms to throw around in attempt to discredit?

If the suggestions are stupid and harmless then why attack them in the first place?
Because stupid talk is not harmless, it is annoying and scares other stupid people.
It is because they aren't.
Aren't stupid?  You self verify your statements just because I called you stupid?  IDIOT!
This is why the Bitcoin community is infected.
Infected by losers like you.
bla bla bla
Do you even have bitcoin?  I guess not.  So why are you here?

Believe me when I say that my thoughts are only to help the community long term rather than hurt it.

I understand if you don't buy into what I have to say but to dismiss the possibility that Bitcoin is going down the same path as its predecessors in the currency game is a bit ludicrous.
BTC goes down, and up and down and up.  Stop talking stupid.
There is a reason that they say "history repeats itself".

Some "crazy" people also said income tax was meant to be for corporations and not the individual.
Random BS.
Then one day someone passed a law and everyone volunteered their wages for the sake of the state.
False!
I say volunteer because unless you have enforcement a law is basically useless.
Offering your theory because you like to talk.  bla bla, shut up please.
Keep outsourcing Bitcoin to the exchanges and keep pricing in fiat.
BTC is not outsourced!  One does not simply "outsource bitcoin".  Do you even know what the fuck BTC is?  Exchanges do not control or own all the bitcoin any more than I do.
The truth is Bitcoin is not stronger than Government and when the Gov deems necessary to tax you they will.
FALSE!  Gov cannot control or tax BTC!
The exchanges will roll on the trader so fast it will make your head spin.
False.  Offshore exchanges exist!  Fool.
THE EXCHANGES DOCUMENT EVERY TRANSACTION YOU MAKE.
And?  Anyone can transfer anything anytime to any new anonymous account.  Are you really so ignorant?
ALL THIS EASY MONEY HAS A PRICE.
Nope.
Bitcoin didn't come out of the blue to help the little guy survive.
No, but it did not come out of the blue to hurt the little guy either.  Stop spreading bullshit.
It was created to help the "new" state thrive.
False.  Moron.
The little guy got duped with promises of financial freedom.
No.  False.  The "little guy" discovered on his own what bitcoin can be used for.  One of those things is financial freedom from banks.   And all that Transfer fee talk?  You can send Bitcoin with ZERO FEE moron.  Have you EVER used the Bitcoin application?  You can send with a ZERO FEE.

So with ZERO FEE there is no fee!  No tax, no fee, no government control.

Put your conspiracy in your eye.




 

[Senor.Bla]

I think the OP may need to put a little less "conspiracy sugar" in his morning coffee.

The "big institutions" can create all the blockchains they want with all the taxes and government oversight they want... and the various governments of the world can do the same... and everyone can feel free to ignore them and continue using Bitcoin (or whatever new and improved cryptocurrency that comes along) that remains decentralised and without the taxes etc.

AGREED!
The op is stupid.
Nobody will use any other crypto currency as widely accepted as Bitcoin because the services, vendors, relators, beepi.com overprice.com godaddy.com purse.io (thus amazon.com), and point of sale services do not exist for other crypto currency!   So Others will not grow or be used.

If others are taxed or controlled by government, then that is MORE reason people will stay with bitcoin and NOT adopt the others.  No matter what the government says, they cannot stop bitcoin anymore than they can pass laws to stop the sale of Alcohol or drugs.  Those still sell and sold when illegal.  Right or wrong, they sell.

All these people are stupid if they think there can be a tax on bitcoin, or if they think the NSA can track everyones bitcoin down to the exact owner or how much they had.

Simply because anyone can open a bitcoin wallet at any moment, anonymously, keeps bitcoin anonymous if someone puts any half ass effort into it.

I have over 102 bitcoin right this moment, so unless these idiots have more than me, maybe they should shut up with all their idiot talk.

that is a strong argument. you have more bitcoins then me, so you must be smarter then me.
so it should be easy for you to explain me one simple thing.
at some point you will want to use your bitcoin, because if you do not, then what is the point in having them.
let us say you want to buy a car. how do you do that?
with your real name? a fake one? or maybe even anonymous?
how do you explain to the government where this car is from and how you paid for it?
because if you can not explain it, they will have to assume you are involved in some kind of crime.

Hello and thank you.  I accept that complement.
1.  How to buy a car?  Go to Beepi.com   They accept bitcoin, give you a free squishy toy car, phone mount, pen, and 2 thermal cups with every car purchase as advertisement swag.  They also do all of the paperwork for you, registration, license plate, and will get you car insurance.  It is like a 5 star service with a concierge.  They will deliver your car to you with a big blue bow on the hood.  Also I notice they detail the living crap out of the car so it is spotless when you recieve it.  The car warranty from them is about 6 months, but you get a manufacturers warranty as well, because they don't sell any cars over 60k miles.  So it is safe to assume all cars on Beepi are decent, and new enough to have the origional warranty in MOST cases.
2.  Real name?  Obviously. lol
3.  Fake name?  Or Anonymous?  (I will count those as the same thing, same question).  Yes of course.
Get yourself an LLC, register it yourself for $50 state fee from New Mexico.  NOT California because they are $600+ per year!  NM is $50 one time, $0 yearly, and zero yearly tax, zero yearly reporting requirement.  Legalzoom.com will sell you a registered agent service.  Every LLC must have a street address (not PO box) for legal papers to be served incase of a law suit.  (the main purpose of an LLC is to protect against a law suit).  For $150 per year (you only need to pay once, and may abandon the service.) you will have legal zoom provide one of their Corporations to act as your "registered agent" representative of your LLC to answer the door, receive mail and forward any mail for your LLC to you.
You will only care about that and only need that once, or a few times so 1 year is more than enough time for you to receive the NM LLC certificate, and your car insurance, registration and title paperwork in the mail sent to that address.
They will then forward the mail to you or your PO box, or your hotel, or your cousin's friend's uncle's baby mama's house.

Then you have a car purchased with bitcoin, registered to an LLC, under a registered agent's address who isnt you, who forwards your mail anywhere you tell them.

4.  If the government asks you where the car is from.  Who are you?  You are the person driving the car.  Tell them it is a company car.  A Limited Liability Corporation vehicle.  It belongs to the LLC, not you.  So that is not for you to know.  They can ask the LLC.  The LLC of course will not reply without a lawyer or at all.  Because the LLC doesn't give a fuck about taxes, back taxes or anything else.   If the IRC wants to tax the state of New Mexico which may or may not have received yearly or quarterly tax information and payments... they can take that up with NM who does not have a yearly reporting requirement.  If the IRS manages to get NM to do anything and NM sends a mean letter to your registered agent, and if you bother to receive mail at that point, and someone wants taxes... it will be 5 years before any legal action is taken against the LLC.  By then expect to lose by default because you will not care.  And you will have simply transferred the car to another person or LLC years ago because if you do all of this, it is because you have enough money to go buy a NEW car and have no interest in driving a 5 year old car.  Or if you keep it, you changed it to yet another LLC within 5 years.  The IRS issue wins, and the LLC has no assets to be seized or sold.  The old LLC is abandon or dissolved.  Pro tip, you may add a dissolve date to the LLC at the time you create the LLC.

LLCs are what EVERY business uses to register a vehicle.
As an American it is your duty NOT to pay taxes that fund issues you do not support.
But you must lie to the stupid poor people that incorrectly think it is the law to pay taxes.  Otherwise they will annoy you.

well, you have made some interesting points and maybe this would even work. but i am not going to find out. once for lack of bitcoins in this quantity, but also as i see the potential to fuck up at one point, so i rather do not take the risk. if you think i am stupid because of that, then this is fine with me. but i know i would live with the constant fear of making a mistake and i guess i would need to move a lot (or is there a different system for a house/flat?).
there are clever ways to minimize the taxes you pay, but your solution is one step to far for me. maybe if i would have bitcoins by the thousands i would be more appealing to me. 

[equator]

The country from where i am residing , still the government have not disclosed anything about bitcoin. and their is no tax law about bitcoin, ya but if we want then we can take bitcoin as an asset like gold and silver or we can take it as short term profit from trading , if we are doing trading just like we are doing trading in equity exchanges. It is upto us what we have to do till their is any law formed for bitcoin.

But it is also true that if Bitcoin is disclosed as illegal money laundering then who ever is holding or have been found of bitcoin users they will be facing the problems.

[chixka000]

Well since the government in our didnt accept bitcoin yet as a way e-currency then their is no such way that they will able to get taxes from us. Well i think that is also the reason why government does not accept it because it may be hard for them to monitor

In my minds, at first, bitcoin is made to avoid the system is giving by government because the government is very giving limitations for their civilians. like sending a large of an amount of another people, maybe you will always get examination before.

Yes, of course our government should really have to put some limitations especially it involves money. They are doing it  to avoid money fraud or laundering which may gives our country into a bad situation against the other countries.

[geetee]

scant poster, long time lurker here, OP is right.
i've thought about this myself over the past few years.

he's not talking about current systems. so the whole example of registering a car in NM is barely a counter-point.

instead... imagine a not too distant future, where you had to use btc or some other digital currency. and every wallet is registered, like a social security#.
perhaps you want to buy a car from a friend. you both agree 5000. taxes due.

today, you can give him 5000 cash and register paperwork for sale of 100. taxes on 100.
future, "they" (governments/banks/irs, etc) will detect transfer of 5000. all taxes due.

what about work under the table or "off the books", for cash? today its possible. future... nevermore. with digital currency, blockchains everywhere, on everything and a mandatory wallet thats registered to you? Doubtful.

remember, if you've ever bought bitcoin using a marketplace (coinbase, bitstamp, bitfinex, etc, etc) they know who you are and what youre holding. all the feds have to do is ask and those companies are usually all too happy to comply.

"well then, i'll move the coins from my Bitstamp wallet to a new wallet and they'll never know"

no. they have blockchain analysis, clustering analysis for this. and companies like coinbase in the US are already required to us it us it to comply with KYC/AML (know your customer / antimoney laundering) banking laws.

anyway, its a bit troubling when you think about it. ironic too. people (or a person) started this whole thing, and it could be our entire undoing.

[Yutikas_11920]

Well since the government in our didnt accept bitcoin yet as a way e-currency then their is no such way that they will able to get taxes from us. Well i think that is also the reason why government does not accept it because it may be hard for them to monitor

In my minds, at first, bitcoin is made to avoid the system is giving by government because the government is very giving limitations for their civilians. like sending a large of an amount of another people, maybe you will always get examination before.

Yes, of course our government should really have to put some limitations especially it involves money. They are doing it  to avoid money fraud or laundering which may gives our country into a bad situation against the other countries.

very precise, it is very good thing to do and I am sure the Government will be able to provide a solution using bitcoin. I think it is indeed highly vulnerable to laundering bitcoin or fraud, for the nature of anonymous bitcoin making criminals can freely do so without a known identity

[HaXX0R1337]

I doubt many of you care at this moment what Bitcoin is capable of achieving.

Most likely one of the most efficient automated taxation schemes on planet Earth.

I believe many of you gamblers and builders of the Bitcoin ecosystem haven't paid a dime yet to any of your local governments (that require them).

It's starts with voluntary taxation (exchange fees and transaction fees) but just wait until just the right "Federal Reserve" type coin gets released and fully adopted.

Then be prepared to repeat history as you breathe life into the new "State of Government".

Easy money comes at a large price.

Nothing in life is free.

Are you ready to sell your seed right up the river?

So quick to lay a brick on a building that should be condemned?

WHEN LARGE FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS ADOPT BLOCKCHAIN TECHNOLOGY IT IS BECAUSE THEY SEE ABSOLUTE UNTESTABLE POWER.

The animals start the engine and then they show the world how bad you are mucking it up then they take it over.

It's that simple.

Bagged, tagged, and taxed.

I dont think that you might say bitcoin is certain.
It is a thing that has a price, and everything may become worthless or priceless. You dont know what is going to happen in next 10 years, maybe some bug that will allow to make a loop on mining bitcoins?
You dont know, that is why bitcoin is not a certain thing.

[Senor.Bla]

scant poster, long time lurker here, OP is right.
i've thought about this myself over the past few years.

he's not talking about current systems. so the whole example of registering a car in NM is barely a counter-point.

instead... imagine a not too distant future, where you had to use btc or some other digital currency. and every wallet is registered, like a social security#.
perhaps you want to buy a car from a friend. you both agree 5000. taxes due.

today, you can give him 5000 cash and register paperwork for sale of 100. taxes on 100.
future, "they" (governments/banks/irs, etc) will detect transfer of 5000. all taxes due.

what about work under the table or "off the books", for cash? today its possible. future... nevermore. with digital currency, blockchains everywhere, on everything and a mandatory wallet thats registered to you? Doubtful.

remember, if you've ever bought bitcoin using a marketplace (coinbase, bitstamp, bitfinex, etc, etc) they know who you are and what youre holding. all the feds have to do is ask and those companies are usually all too happy to comply.

"well then, i'll move the coins from my Bitstamp wallet to a new wallet and they'll never know"

no. they have blockchain analysis, clustering analysis for this. and companies like coinbase in the US are already required to us it us it to comply with KYC/AML (know your customer / antimoney laundering) banking laws.

anyway, its a bit troubling when you think about it. ironic too. people (or a person) started this whole thing, and it could be our entire undoing.

this would only work if people had to use such a GovCoin, because they would not do it unless forced.
only one wallet per person would have to be allowed and also everybody on earth would have to participate.
still black markets, frauds, fakes and other criminal activities around would be common.
this does not sounds like it is possible in the next 20 years.
they want it, but it is not that easy.

[Reid]

I doubt many of you care at this moment what Bitcoin is capable of achieving.

Most likely one of the most efficient automated taxation schemes on planet Earth.

I believe many of you gamblers and builders of the Bitcoin ecosystem haven't paid a dime yet to any of your local governments (that require them).

It's starts with voluntary taxation (exchange fees and transaction fees) but just wait until just the right "Federal Reserve" type coin gets released and fully adopted.

Then be prepared to repeat history as you breathe life into the new "State of Government".

Easy money comes at a large price.

Nothing in life is free.

Are you ready to sell your seed right up the river?

So quick to lay a brick on a building that should be condemned?

WHEN LARGE FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS ADOPT BLOCKCHAIN TECHNOLOGY IT IS BECAUSE THEY SEE ABSOLUTE UNTESTABLE POWER.

The animals start the engine and then they show the world how bad you are mucking it up then they take it over.

It's that simple.

Bagged, tagged, and taxed.

Now I began to wonder. Thinking all of this can come true in the near future. If it is getting bigger then someone might want to come in without knocking and say "hey pay something to us or give us some shares" That would be a real big problem.

[chixka000]

Well since the government in our didnt accept bitcoin yet as a way e-currency then their is no such way that they will able to get taxes from us. Well i think that is also the reason why government does not accept it because it may be hard for them to monitor

In my minds, at first, bitcoin is made to avoid the system is giving by government because the government is very giving limitations for their civilians. like sending a large of an amount of another people, maybe you will always get examination before.

Yes, of course our government should really have to put some limitations especially it involves money. They are doing it  to avoid money fraud or laundering which may gives our country into a bad situation against the other countries.

very precise, it is very good thing to do and I am sure the Government will be able to provide a solution using bitcoin. I think it is indeed highly vulnerable to laundering bitcoin or fraud, for the nature of anonymous bitcoin making criminals can freely do so without a known identity

Bitcoin do really have disadvantages  in terms of security  it may be beneficial  to its users but if it is used in illegal activities, identifying  the criminals really would be a though job

[2girls]

I think Bitcoins has no taxes

[bitbunnny]

I think Bitcoins has no taxes

That is true. So far you don't have to pay taxes on Bitcoin. At least not in my country. But they say that only tax and death areq certain, now someone has also added Bitcoin. 

[jackg]

I think that's the point of it being decentralised. It is really hard for people to track  it.
If hacking can take place in Bitcoin, so can tax evasion.

governments dont need to care about who paid you, or need to care about how much you were paid to start a civil recovery process on you (tax fine)

there are many non-blockchain ways to red flag someone. for instance
if they see someone applying for a mortgage, but have filed tax forms to say they have no income... red flag
but if they see someone buying a house outright, but have filed tax forms to say they have no income... red flag
seeing someone apply for car insurance on a modest priced car. red flag
poor people cannot really afford to maintain a low priced car with no income. so if governments see you driving a car.. red flag
even things like passports and plane tickets.. red flag
their bank account statement shows funds moving in and out that technically should not exist to such a poor person

then all they need to do is make a court order to get you to investigate yourself, where you have to provide proof of payment, etc as to how you were able to maintain a less than poor lifestyle while being poor. while they just sit back and work out how much to fine you to settle their minds. or how much time to put you in jail if they drum up a story that you got funds through criminal activity. whereby you are then really pressured to prove where funds came from including proving it was 'legit'

this is why so many poor people get hit with tax fines.. because its easy to spot a poor person with money then it is for a rich person.

these government tactic end up making poor people paranoid.
EG
even going so far as having no insurance so that they really really need to be watching what they do when they drive.
concentrating harder to not get a speeding ticket, parking ticket, to avoid red flags about a vehicle.
yes you can register a car to a "trust" or offshore entity. but u cant get car insurance on a trust.

cant have any registered property or insure your house/property
ending up as a nomad living in squats (ref: amir taaki as prime example)

But these are just odd ways of tracing people. Sure it is done like this and people can detect different things that people are doing, however, it is always difficult to truly detect something like that.
A person on a good job to simply say "yeah, I bought them that car" could really put a hole in the governments scheme for example.
Though it is unlikely you'd get a person to do that it could still happen.

[20kevin20]

I think Bitcoins has no taxes

That is true. So far you don't have to pay taxes on Bitcoin. At least not in my country. But they say that only tax and death areq certain, now someone has also added Bitcoin. 

How hard is it to implement the taxes? If you think about it throughoutly, it would take only a few days to do it. It could work like this: BTC owners need to pay a tax for using BTC. If you're found of trying to evade the tax, you're sent in jail. And America wouldn't surprise me with a similar act.

[ClownSpider]

Clown you have succeeded at making me laugh.
bla bla
One thing that I will have to take issue with is your thoughts on ZERO transaction fees.

Have you ever tried to do a peer to peer transaction without a fee?

FOREVER.
bla bla

Forever is defined as:  Never ending.   Yes I HAVE made Bitcoin QT transactions, peer to peer, QT to QT, with zero fee.  Even made transactions to myself from wallet to wallet.  It takes time but is a zero fee.  It is not forever.  Do you understand the difference between 1 hour and infinity?

well, you have made some interesting points and maybe this would even work. but i am not going to find out. once for lack of bitcoins in this quantity, but also as i see the potential to fuck up at one point, so i rather do not take the risk. if you think i am stupid because of that, then this is fine with me. but i know i would live with the constant fear of making a mistake and i guess i would need to move a lot (or is there a different system for a house/flat?).
there are clever ways to minimize the taxes you pay, but your solution is one step to far for me. maybe if i would have bitcoins by the thousands i would be more appealing to me. 

I did not suggest anything illegal.  If you are too scared to get an LLC I will not change your mind.  It is legal, but it isn't for everyone.
Also a car does not cost 1000s of bitcoins.  1000 BTC would be 580,000 so I hope you are being more reasonable than that.

....every wallet is registered, like a social security#.....
perhaps you want to buy a car from a friend. you both agree 5000. taxes due.

today, you can give him 5000 cash and register paperwork for sale of 100. taxes on 100.
future, "they" (governments/banks/irs, etc) will detect transfer of 5000. all taxes due.

what about work under the table or "off the books", for cash? today its possible. future... nevermore. with digital currency, blockchains everywhere, on everything and a mandatory wallet thats registered to you? Doubtful.

remember, if you've ever bought bitcoin using a marketplace (coinbase, bitstamp, bitfinex, etc, etc) they know who you are and what youre holding. all the feds have to do is ask and those companies are usually all too happy to comply.

"well then, i'll move the coins from my Bitstamp wallet to a new wallet and they'll never know"

no. they have blockchain analysis, clustering analysis for this. and companies like coinbase in the US are already required to us it us it to comply with KYC/AML (know your customer / antimoney laundering) banking laws.

anyway, its a bit troubling when you think about it. ironic too. people (or a person) started this whole thing, and it could be our entire undoing.

Every wallet cannot be registered.  People will make their own.  Would you like me to tell you how to make your own, anonymous, by yourself, and unregistered?  lol
Car transfer taxes are NOT based on the reported value.  They are based on the blue book value MINUS any and all cost of UNVERIFIED claims of needed repair to bring it up to bluebook condition.   Ever buy a car before?  You are about 20 years out of date.
So please don't attempt to talk about the future.

You also know nothing about BTC tumblers, how to open an anonymous account, or transfer BTC around.  Analyze all you want, there is NO secret mathematical algorithm to identify the difference between one BTC account OWNER or another, or the difference between spent coin and transferred coin.

Also a Florida court recently ruled that bitcoin is NOT money.  So no banking law applies.  Even if the Gov wanted to, they could never enforce laws over BTC.  Ask New York how well the ban on BTC transactions is going.  (A license is required to deal with bitcoin in new york.   In the BTC community, no fucks were given. )

[BeGoods]

At my country there are not yet rules for bitcoin and another cryptos coins, the users of bitcoin is still low too. I think it will need much time until the government take tax from bitcoin.

different from my country. the government knew about bitcoin and they have passed laws that virtual money and bitcoin is not the responsibility for the government. each person has a responsibility to himself. and bitcoin is not banned inmy country. but even so. the government does not give the slightest tax on bitcoin or virtual money

[danherbias07]

At my country there are not yet rules for bitcoin and another cryptos coins, the users of bitcoin is still low too. I think it will need much time until the government take tax from bitcoin.

different from my country. the government knew about bitcoin and they have passed laws that virtual money and bitcoin is not the responsibility for the government. each person has a responsibility to himself. and bitcoin is not banned inmy country. but even so. the government does not give the slightest tax on bitcoin or virtual money

Not yet. Not now. But someday it will. If this price grew more those crocodiles will look for chances if they could go in also and get some out of it. They wont let an enormous amount just doing anything by itself.