Patrick Strateman is a thief

[icicle]

[update - after this issue was successfully resolved, he locked me out of my account before I downloaded my bitcoins and is keeping the money I need to save my little girl's dog. He is going to be arrested.]


Hi again!

As you can tell, if these screenshots post correctly, I am not tech-savvy. I didn't even know what Google OpenID was. I sent some money to Britcoin then spent it on 500UKP of bitcoins which were priced around 12ukp each at the time. Foolishly I left them with Amir. I'm used to trading. I trust people with far more money than that every day. Now Britcoin have changed their name to Intersango I can't log in to get my bitcoins back.

I have asked for help again and again. Now I'm asking in public. Although I am tending towards scam, perhaps I am wrong and Intersango have made an innocent mistake and I will be in possession of my bitcoins very soon.


http://s16.photobucket.com/user/i-c-i-c-l-e/media/london/Intersango/anmissingbitcoins1.jpg.html

http://s16.photobucket.com/user/i-c-i-c-l-e/media/london/Intersango/anmissingbitcoins2.jpg.html

http://s16.photobucket.com/user/i-c-i-c-l-e/media/london/Intersango/anmissingbitcoins3.jpg.html

http://s16.photobucket.com/user/i-c-i-c-l-e/media/london/Intersango/anmissingbitcoins4.jpg.html

http://s16.photobucket.com/user/i-c-i-c-l-e/media/london/Intersango/anmissingbitcoins5.jpg.html

http://s16.photobucket.com/user/i-c-i-c-l-e/media/london/Intersango/anmissingbitcoins6.jpg.html

http://s16.photobucket.com/user/i-c-i-c-l-e/media/london/Intersango/anmissingbitcoins7.jpg.html

http://s16.photobucket.com/user/i-c-i-c-l-e/media/london/Intersango/anmissingbitcoins8.jpg.html

http://s16.photobucket.com/user/i-c-i-c-l-e/media/london/Intersango/anmissingbitcoins9.jpg.html

http://s16.photobucket.com/user/i-c-i-c-l-e/media/london/Intersango/anmissingbitcoins10.jpg.html

http://s16.photobucket.com/user/i-c-i-c-l-e/media/london/Intersango/anmissingbitcoins11.jpg.html

[Liam W]

Intersango had all their UK bank accounts closed and no longer trade in GBP

[icicle]

I don't want GBP, I want access to the bitcoins I left on their server for safekeeping! Thats how it works isn't it? Or did I get something wrong? I want to download my bitcoins to a wallet.

[Liam W]

I don't want GBP, I want access to the bitcoins I left on their server for safekeeping! Thats how it works isn't it? Or did I get something wrong? I want to download my bitcoins to a wallet.

Hmm. I had luck when I skyped them once.

[icicle]

I will try the Skype thing.

Here is a PM I just sent Phantomcircuit..

"Hi!

I have been trying to access my bitcoins now for a very long time. I've emailed you, Amir and support.

The support screenshots have been uploaded to their own thread. All I want is a login and access to the bitcoins I paid for when you were still Britcoin.

Alexandra"


I am also very interested in their Polish connections.

I mean, if you are up to something dodgy, internationally, the last thing you need is any connection whatsoever to Poland. If they really did do coding in Poland or have a Polish bank I am more inclined to think this is all just the longest wait for tech support in history. The Polish investigate every accusation of a crime. I recall one guy paying for his meal in a restaurant then ordering pudding and forgetting to pay for it. He was extradited and charged with theft of every ingredient in the pudding. Another went $30 over his overdraft at the bank and had long since paid it off. He was clapped in irons and put on the plane to Poland as well.

That is why I am puzzled about still being separated from my Bitcoins and inclined to think this isn't a scam.

[Liam W]

I will try the Skype thing.

Here is a PM I just sent Phantomcircuit..

"Hi!

I have been trying to access my bitcoins now for a very long time. I've emailed you, Amir and support.

The support screenshots have been uploaded to their own thread. All I want is a login and access to the bitcoins I paid for when you were still Britcoin.

Alexandra"


I am also very interested in their Polish connections.

I mean, if you are up to something dodgy, internationally, the last thing you need is any connection whatsoever to Poland. If they really did do coding in Poland or have a Polish bank I am more inclined to think this is all just the longest wait for tech support in history. The Polish investigate every accusation of a crime. I recall one guy paying for his meal in a restaurant then ordering pudding and forgetting to pay for it. He was extradited and charged with theft of every ingredient in the pudding. Another went $30 over his overdraft at the bank and had long since paid it off. He was clapped in irons and put on the plane to Poland as well.

That is why I am puzzled about still being separated from my Bitcoins and inclined to think this isn't a scam.

Remind me never to break the law in Poland

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I will try the Skype thing.

Here is a PM I just sent Phantomcircuit..

"Hi!

I have been trying to access my bitcoins now for a very long time. I've emailed you, Amir and support.

The support screenshots have been uploaded to their own thread. All I want is a login and access to the bitcoins I paid for when you were still Britcoin.

Alexandra"


I am also very interested in their Polish connections.

I mean, if you are up to something dodgy, internationally, the last thing you need is any connection whatsoever to Poland. If they really did do coding in Poland or have a Polish bank I am more inclined to think this is all just the longest wait for tech support in history. The Polish investigate every accusation of a crime. I recall one guy paying for his meal in a restaurant then ordering pudding and forgetting to pay for it. He was extradited and charged with theft of every ingredient in the pudding. Another went $30 over his overdraft at the bank and had long since paid it off. He was clapped in irons and put on the plane to Poland as well.

That is why I am puzzled about still being separated from my Bitcoins and inclined to think this isn't a scam.

IMPORTANT! The word pudding has been banned on this forum. I pity the poor Pole souls who've read your post and now have broken Polish Bitcoin Tready.

EDIT: I misspelled pudding, and the joke is in reference to Bill Cosby.

[Liam W]

I will try the Skype thing.

Here is a PM I just sent Phantomcircuit..

"Hi!

I have been trying to access my bitcoins now for a very long time. I've emailed you, Amir and support.

The support screenshots have been uploaded to their own thread. All I want is a login and access to the bitcoins I paid for when you were still Britcoin.

Alexandra"


I am also very interested in their Polish connections.

I mean, if you are up to something dodgy, internationally, the last thing you need is any connection whatsoever to Poland. If they really did do coding in Poland or have a Polish bank I am more inclined to think this is all just the longest wait for tech support in history. The Polish investigate every accusation of a crime. I recall one guy paying for his meal in a restaurant then ordering pudding and forgetting to pay for it. He was extradited and charged with theft of every ingredient in the pudding. Another went $30 over his overdraft at the bank and had long since paid it off. He was clapped in irons and put on the plane to Poland as well.

That is why I am puzzled about still being separated from my Bitcoins and inclined to think this isn't a scam.

IMPORTANT! The word puddling has been banned on this forum. I pity the poor Pole souls who've read your post and now have broken Polish Bitcoin Tready.

What the...

[icicle]

Guys, I'm still locked out of my account and have been trying to get back in since Feb 10.

How long do you think it is reasonable to leave it like this before officially deciding I've been scammed and reporting it in all relevant jurisdictions / forwarding the screenshots to judges and liquidators etc.? If I am going to be making serious accusations like that I better be absolutely sure. Amir struck me as a nice guy and although I don't know the others, apart from my bitcoins going walkies, I have no reason to think they aren't. If I am going to have them clapped in irons without having to show so much as probable cause, waiting in jails run by former communist secret police, I am going to feel absolutely terrible if they turn out to be honest.

I have tried tech support, I have emailed Amir and Patrick. I have PMed Patrick. I have replied to threads he is known to hang out on. i'll try the skype thing soon too, but it's like I've run out of options.

If anyone sees any sign of them can you please point them at this thread? And please let me know how long it is reasonable to be locked out of my account.

[instaBoost]

how many coins did you leave them access too? just curious

[MPOE-PR]

Not enough to land in a jail cell for. About 500 GPB worth when they were 12GBP. So about 40. It would have been 80 but Amir 'couldn't find' the money I sent him until the price doubled.

I note Phantomcircuit's 'last activity' here was yesterday. This activity did not include replying to my message or granting me access to my property.

"“This is a long-term, high-risk investment,” says Patrick Strateman, a software developer and Bitcoin investor." http://www.cnbc.com/id/45030812

Some jokes don't need a punchline.

The old "do not deal with known scammers" applies. After the whole Bitcoinica debacle warnings were put out about it, I guess you must have missed it.

[repentance]

Not enough to land in a jail cell for. About 500 GPB worth when they were 12GBP. So about 40. It would have been 80 but Amir 'couldn't find' the money I sent him until the price doubled.

I note Phantomcircuit's 'last activity' here was yesterday. This activity did not include replying to my message or granting me access to my property.

"“This is a long-term, high-risk investment,” says Patrick Strateman, a software developer and Bitcoin investor." http://www.cnbc.com/id/45030812

Some jokes don't need a punchline.

The old "do not deal with known scammers" applies. After the whole Bitcoinica debacle warnings were put out about it, I guess you must have missed it.

If the funds were deposited with Britcoin, they had to have been deposited prior to August 2011 - before Bitcoinica even existed and well before Intersango became associated with Bitcoinica.

It's probably not a good idea to put funds on any exchange and leave them there for 18 months without periodically checking that you still have access to your funds, though - the vast majority of Bitcoin enterprises don't even survive that long.

[malevolent]

I mean, if you are up to something dodgy, internationally, the last thing you need is any connection whatsoever to Poland. If they really did do coding in Poland or have a Polish bank I am more inclined to think this is all just the longest wait for tech support in history. The Polish investigate every accusation of a crime. I recall one guy paying for his meal in a restaurant then ordering pudding and forgetting to pay for it. He was extradited and charged with theft of every ingredient in the pudding. Another went $30 over his overdraft at the bank and had long since paid it off. He was clapped in irons and put on the plane to Poland as well.
That is why I am puzzled about still being separated from my Bitcoins and inclined to think this isn't a scam.

I presume those people who were extradited were Poles?

Polish authorities are not usually successful at extraditing foreigners, and sometimes even their own people (like Edward Mazur involved in the assassination of Marek Papala, the Chief of Police or a stalinist prosecutor Helena Wolinska).

As for pursuing even minor charges, yes, it sometimes happens... and sometimes they don't bother unless the amount stolen/scammed is >~ 240 EUR (1000 PLN, used to be 4 times less; basically it means stealing up to ~240 EUR is treated as a non-criminal offence).

[icicle]

Well I suppose we will be finding out soon as I have heard zilch, and I don't know what else to do so far as Amir Taaki is concerned. The UK authorities will not be kicking down any doors, thats for sure, unless a foreign jurisdiction asks them to.

Now Strateman is a different matter. I'm in the US mostly these days but I'm still new here. Is it as simple as turning up at a police station and making a report to get a criminal accusation on file? I'd ideally also like to get the equivalent of a mareva injunction, but I'm not sure the US has those. I like the US though so far as law enforcement goes. Unlike in the UK where it will almost certainly take a request from a foreign power, I am encouraged to see how often you get to watch a perp walk. Last week most of the school district where I am now was impeached or summonsed or whatever you call it! No way that would happen in the UK.

Where is Zhou? Anyone any idea? Do I need to be brushing up on my mandarin?

Also is there anyone else involved in Intersango? I don't want all three of them blaming some fourth person I failed to identify or locate.

[malevolent]

Where is Zhou? Anyone any idea? Do I need to be brushing up on my mandarin?

I think Zhou Tong was using some of the money he stole/scammed/earned/whatever (delete as appropriate) in Trinity College, Melbourne. No idea if he is still there.

[repentance]

Where is Zhou? Anyone any idea? Do I need to be brushing up on my mandarin?

I think Zhou Tong was using some of the money he stole/scammed/earned/whatever (delete as appropriate) in Trinity College, Melbourne. No idea if he is still there.

Zhou was still in Melbourne last time I checked but he never had anything to do with Britcoin or Intersango.  He sold Bitcoinica long before the Intersango guys came onboard and was technically only an employee of Bitcoinica after that time.

Last time I checked, Amir was the only director of Intersango and was still located in London.

You'd likely have to get a judgement against Intersango before you could look to remedies such as asset freezing/seizure and you're not going to get a judgement based solely on your word.  One US court has already ruled that it has no personal jurisdiction over Intersango regarding funds owed by Bitcoinica, so I wouldn't hold out your hopes in that direction.

LAW AND MOTION 302, RULING: THE COURT ADOPTED ITS TENTATIVE RULING WHICH WAS NOT CONTESTED. SPECIALLY APPEARING DEFENDANT INTERSANGO LTD.'S MOTION TO QUASH SERVICE OF PROCESS FOR LACK OF PERSONAL JURISDICTION IS GRANTED. PLAINTIFF FAILED TO PRODUCE FACTS SHOWING DEFENDANT INTERSANGO, LTD HAS ANY CALIFORNIA CONTACTS RELEVANT TO THIS CASE.

Perhaps you could put your question to one of the online legal forums and they could clarify for you whether there's any possible criminal action here or whether it's purely a civil matter and whether it's one which could be pursued in the US.

I find this one quite useful, although the answers are often extremely blunt and abrasive.

http://forum.freeadvice.com/

They deal with US law only so you'd need to make your question about possible remedies available to you in the US.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=164772.0

[icicle]

Where is Zhou? Anyone any idea? Do I need to be brushing up on my mandarin?

I think Zhou Tong was using some of the money he stole/scammed/earned/whatever (delete as appropriate) in Trinity College, Melbourne. No idea if he is still there.

Zhou was still in Melbourne last time I checked but he never had anything to do with Britcoin or Intersango.  He sold Bitcoinica long before the Intersango guys came onboard and was technically only an employee of Bitcoinica after that time.

Last time I checked, Amir was the only director of Intersango and was still located in London.

You'd likely have to get a judgement against Intersango before you could look to remedies such as asset freezing/seizure and you're not going to get a judgement based solely on your word.  One US court has already ruled that it has no personal jurisdiction over Intersango regarding funds owed by Bitcoinica, so I wouldn't hold out your hopes in that direction.

LAW AND MOTION 302, RULING: THE COURT ADOPTED ITS TENTATIVE RULING WHICH WAS NOT CONTESTED. SPECIALLY APPEARING DEFENDANT INTERSANGO LTD.'S MOTION TO QUASH SERVICE OF PROCESS FOR LACK OF PERSONAL JURISDICTION IS GRANTED. PLAINTIFF FAILED TO PRODUCE FACTS SHOWING DEFENDANT INTERSANGO, LTD HAS ANY CALIFORNIA CONTACTS RELEVANT TO THIS CASE.

Perhaps you could put your question to one of the online legal forums and they could clarify for you whether there's any possible criminal action here or whether it's purely a civil matter and whether it's one which could be pursued in the US.

I find this one quite useful, although the answers are often extremely blunt and abrasive.

http://forum.freeadvice.com/

They deal with US law only so you'd need to make your question about possible remedies available to you in the US.

Thanks guys and girls! Last known whereabouts is extremely helpful. As is the fact they all have unusual names.

There are more ways to resolve this than coming at it head on with lawyers, although we have two good ones on the payroll here so I might mention it. I'd like a Mareva injunction sure, I'd like them clapped in irons as well if this turned out to be deliberate fraud, and dumped in a deep dark hole, but I think most of all I'd like their families to know what a bunch of little toe-rags they raised.

You'd be surprised how often that last one works on naughty boys. Being served with a writ is all in a day's work, being handbagged by your Granny - not so much. Not what you'd call part of the Master Plan.

Is their head office actually Hanover Street in London? And do they have an official address in the US?

[edited to add]

The Taakis were easier to find than I thought, and contrary to what is stated in various biogs, they are not in London at all.

This has to be handled most delicately now, so no updates from me for a while.

[icicle]

OK that worked.

[icicle]

Still no bitcoins and the police are now involved. See the link in my sig for updates. If you are missing bitcoins from any of Strateman's and Taaki's ventures, Intersango, Bitcoinica etc. now is a good time to file your police report in whatever country or state you are in if you have not done it already, and I will do my best to get your property returned to you under California's seizure laws. You do not have to be American, and this will not cost any significant amount of money so far as I can tell, unless you want to travel to San Francisco and give evidence in court, in person. Also we have been on the phone to the police in SF quite a lot, but I don't know if everyone will need to phone quite so much now everything is underway.

I am going to be doing all this anyway, so I thought it might be a good idea to pool our efforts. I understand not everyone has the resources to sue, and the law already has provision for stolen property to be returned to the rightful owner anyway.

Within the next few weeks I will give out contact details of the officer in charge in the US. At that time, you may get your local police to fax or email your local complaint, and you will be able to forward it yourself as well, to be on the safe side.

If your local police are not very professional or educated, you might prefer to write in or email. Make sure you get some reference number to prove you put in a complaint, and keep a copy of your complaint safe as this is what the investigating officer in the US will be seeing.