ASICMINER for dummies?

[Rodyland]

I object to my thread being  called dummy! ;-)

- yes you get dividends. Your shares  are effectively held in trust.
- paid to your btct acct.
- email/pm the owner of the pt and friedcat
       

[dan9575]

What do you guys think the dividend will be when the new ASIC machines are hooked up and after BFL starts shipping?

[Peleus]

Sorry for being a share's newbie.

From my understanding.

Friedcat is the actual owner / creator of ASICMINER.

Burnside bought up a heap of ASICMINER shares in the beginning, making him a majority share owner?

He is now offering these shares on btct.co as pass through. My newbiness comes in knowing what pass through essentially means.

From my understanding:
- You get the same dividends as you would being an actual share holder, it's just passed through Burnside who takes a small cut.
- You're allowed to convert the PT share into a 'real' share whenever you like.

In that case, why would anyone ever hold a PT? Why wouldn't you ever just buy and instantly convert? What is the value burnside is adding*?

Also, is there anyway you can calculate in advance what the returns / dividends would be? What percentage of the profits are paid in dividends? I'm trying to figure out where I could get information from to calculate my projected ROI, timeframes, etc.

 
* I'm definitively not implying burnside isn't doing anything valuable, in any way is ripping people off or anything silly like that, I'm simply saying I don't understand enough about it currently and I'm trying to learn.

[creativex]

In that case, why would anyone ever hold a PT? Why wouldn't you ever just buy and instantly convert? What is the value burnside is adding*?

Liquidity. Off exchange shares are difficult to buy and sell.

Also, is there anyway you can calculate in advance what the returns / dividends would be? What percentage of the profits are paid in dividends? I'm trying to figure out where I could get information from to calculate my projected ROI, timeframes, etc.

I ran APY numbers on ASICMiner yesterday. I believe I came up with 38%ish based on the current ask on btct.co at that moment. Their last couple dividends have been lower than normal because they've been re-investing.

[burnside]

Sorry for being a share's newbie.

From my understanding.

Friedcat is the actual owner / creator of ASICMINER.

Burnside bought up a heap of ASICMINER shares in the beginning, making him a majority share owner?

He is now offering these shares on btct.co as pass through. My newbiness comes in knowing what pass through essentially means.

From my understanding:
- You get the same dividends as you would being an actual share holder, it's just passed through Burnside who takes a small cut.
- You're allowed to convert the PT share into a 'real' share whenever you like.

In that case, why would anyone ever hold a PT? Why wouldn't you ever just buy and instantly convert? What is the value burnside is adding*?

Also, is there anyway you can calculate in advance what the returns / dividends would be? What percentage of the profits are paid in dividends? I'm trying to figure out where I could get information from to calculate my projected ROI, timeframes, etc.

 
* I'm definitively not implying burnside isn't doing anything valuable, in any way is ripping people off or anything silly like that, I'm simply saying I don't understand enough about it currently and I'm trying to learn.

No problem, I can help clarify.

First I am not majority shareholder by a long shot.  I think I had 100 shares out of 400,000 total or something.  I hold more now, ~350 I think.

I started the passthru because people were trading in the forum threads, which meant:
  - having to use escrow for the trades
  - trading is slow  (typically takes friedcat 2-3 days to process a trade)
  - trades were very risky  (can you trust the other guy?  can you trust the escrow guy?)
  - it was hard to value a trade

With the passthru, you get safe easy trades, lots of volume if you need to buy or sell quickly, and potentially some extra dividends if Friedcat gives the passthru a sample mining rig.  (since the passthru in theory is over 5,000 shares and thus has board membership.)

There is currently no downside.  The passthru is currently zero-fee.  I'm not making anything directly from running the passthru.  (disclosure, I am making some by trading my personal shares)  There's not much reason to withdraw, and lots of reasons to stay.

Hope that helps make sense of things.

Cheers.

[Peleus]

Sorry for being a share's newbie.

From my understanding.

Friedcat is the actual owner / creator of ASICMINER.

Burnside bought up a heap of ASICMINER shares in the beginning, making him a majority share owner?

He is now offering these shares on btct.co as pass through. My newbiness comes in knowing what pass through essentially means.

From my understanding:
- You get the same dividends as you would being an actual share holder, it's just passed through Burnside who takes a small cut.
- You're allowed to convert the PT share into a 'real' share whenever you like.

In that case, why would anyone ever hold a PT? Why wouldn't you ever just buy and instantly convert? What is the value burnside is adding*?

Also, is there anyway you can calculate in advance what the returns / dividends would be? What percentage of the profits are paid in dividends? I'm trying to figure out where I could get information from to calculate my projected ROI, timeframes, etc.

 
* I'm definitively not implying burnside isn't doing anything valuable, in any way is ripping people off or anything silly like that, I'm simply saying I don't understand enough about it currently and I'm trying to learn.

No problem, I can help clarify.

First I am not majority shareholder by a long shot.  I think I had 100 shares out of 400,000 total or something.  I hold more now, ~350 I think.

I started the passthru because people were trading in the forum threads, which meant:
  - having to use escrow for the trades
  - trading is slow  (typically takes friedcat 2-3 days to process a trade)
  - trades were very risky  (can you trust the other guy?  can you trust the escrow guy?)
  - it was hard to value a trade

With the passthru, you get safe easy trades, lots of volume if you need to buy or sell quickly, and potentially some extra dividends if Friedcat gives the passthru a sample mining rig.  (since the passthru in theory is over 5,000 shares and thus has board membership.)

There is currently no downside.  The passthru is currently zero-fee.  I'm not making anything directly from running the passthru.  (disclosure, I am making some by trading my personal shares)  There's not much reason to withdraw, and lots of reasons to stay.

Hope that helps make sense of things.

Cheers.

Thanks mate, it does clarify a lot. I'll ask one more question though. Sorry for my confusion over saying you're a majority share holder, it ties in with this question though.

If I purchase a passthrough share, who's share am I actually purchasing? (or essentially, which "real" share is the dividend coming from?)

One one hand I thought it would be purchasing from burnside - he is running the exchange, and I imagined he couldn't "sell" anything he doesn't have the authority to "own", hence I figured he had a large portion and we were essentially trading out of his pool. This would mean on btct.co we're dividing up the 350 shares burnside owns personally? If 50 share owners converted to "real" shares does this mean the pool is ever shrinking and we would only now be dividing up 300 shares?

On the other hand a few advantages mentioned was being traded in large volumes easily, so it makes me think it can't be this pool of burnsides shares. Hence how does an exchange have the authority to trade in them, and how do they receive the divided to pass through? Does the exchange have it own separate pool of shares? Again how is the pool 'replenished' from conversions if the public (exchange included here?) can't buy shares from ASICMINER?

Again, sorry for the basic questions. I'm sure it's a similar set up in most share markets but I've never really been exposed much to it and I'm really interested in how it's working.

Thanks

[burnside]

Thanks mate, it does clarify a lot. I'll ask one more question though. Sorry for my confusion over saying you're a majority share holder, it ties in with this question though.

If I purchase a passthrough share, who's share am I actually purchasing? (or essentially, which "real" share is the dividend coming from?)

One one hand I thought it would be purchasing from burnside - he is running the exchange, and I imagined he couldn't "sell" anything he doesn't have the authority to "own", hence I figured he had a large portion and we were essentially trading out of his pool. This would mean on btct.co we're dividing up the 350 shares burnside owns personally? If 50 share owners converted to "real" shares does this mean the pool is ever shrinking and we would only now be dividing up 300 shares?

On the other hand a few advantages mentioned was being traded in large volumes easily, so it makes me think it can't be this pool of burnsides shares. Hence how does an exchange have the authority to trade in them, and how do they receive the divided to pass through? Does the exchange have it own separate pool of shares? Again how is the pool 'replenished' from conversions if the public (exchange included here?) can't buy shares from ASICMINER?

Again, sorry for the basic questions. I'm sure it's a similar set up in most share markets but I've never really been exposed much to it and I'm really interested in how it's working.

Thanks

That's a good question.  It works like this:

I hold (but do not own) ~5800 shares of ASICMINER with Friedcat.  All of these shares trade on the exchange.  When Friedcat issues divs, my wallet gets divs for all 5800 shares.

On the exchange, I hold (and own) ~350 shares of ASICMINER-PT.  Other people hold the rest.  When I pay divs that have come in from Friedcat, they are distributed to everyone's btct.co accounts based on how many ASICMINER-PT shares they have.

And the important part: Every ASICMINER-PT share is backed by exactly one ASICMINER share.  So the number available on the market is exactly the number I am holding directly with Friedcat.

Hope that helps!

[svenp]

Is there a place where Asicminer's financial statements can be found?

[burnside]

Is there a place where Asicminer's financial statements can be found?

Not that I'm aware of.  There's a lot that can be extrapolated from Friedcat's weekly posts in the official ASICMINER thread though.

Cheers.

[Peleus]

Thanks mate, it does clarify a lot. I'll ask one more question though. Sorry for my confusion over saying you're a majority share holder, it ties in with this question though.

If I purchase a passthrough share, who's share am I actually purchasing? (or essentially, which "real" share is the dividend coming from?)

One one hand I thought it would be purchasing from burnside - he is running the exchange, and I imagined he couldn't "sell" anything he doesn't have the authority to "own", hence I figured he had a large portion and we were essentially trading out of his pool. This would mean on btct.co we're dividing up the 350 shares burnside owns personally? If 50 share owners converted to "real" shares does this mean the pool is ever shrinking and we would only now be dividing up 300 shares?

On the other hand a few advantages mentioned was being traded in large volumes easily, so it makes me think it can't be this pool of burnsides shares. Hence how does an exchange have the authority to trade in them, and how do they receive the divided to pass through? Does the exchange have it own separate pool of shares? Again how is the pool 'replenished' from conversions if the public (exchange included here?) can't buy shares from ASICMINER?

Again, sorry for the basic questions. I'm sure it's a similar set up in most share markets but I've never really been exposed much to it and I'm really interested in how it's working.

Thanks

That's a good question.  It works like this:

I hold (but do not own) ~5800 shares of ASICMINER with Friedcat.  All of these shares trade on the exchange.  When Friedcat issues divs, my wallet gets divs for all 5800 shares.

On the exchange, I hold (and own) ~350 shares of ASICMINER-PT.  Other people hold the rest.  When I pay divs that have come in from Friedcat, they are distributed to everyone's btct.co accounts based on how many ASICMINER-PT shares they have.

And the important part: Every ASICMINER-PT share is backed by exactly one ASICMINER share.  So the number available on the market is exactly the number I am holding directly with Friedcat.

Hope that helps!

Awesome, thanks for clarifying.

[furuknap]

Burnside, will you be putting up a PT on LTCGlobal for ASICMINER too? I'd love to get some shares there too.

.b

[burnside]

Burnside, will you be putting up a PT on LTCGlobal for ASICMINER too? I'd love to get some shares there too.

.b

I don't think I will, but maybe someone else can?  I'd definitely like to see one on the LTC side as well.

Cheers.

[puck2]

Shares are also available at https://bitfunder.com/asset/G.ASICMINER-PT.

Bitfunder G.ASICMINER-PT 24h volume: 245
BTC-TC ASICMINER-PT 24h volume: 195.5

...the Weexchange passthrough for BTC at Bitfunder isn't too big a deal, and you may benefit from increased liquidity at Bitfunder.

[furuknap]

Burnside, will you be putting up a PT on LTCGlobal for ASICMINER too? I'd love to get some shares there too.

.b

I don't think I will, but maybe someone else can?  I'd definitely like to see one on the LTC side as well.

Cheers.

Shoot... It would be a nice way to hedge against price fluctuations. I'd definintely pick up on IPO.

Well, I'm not experienced enough to do anything myself, so I'll have to wait for someone else to pick up the ball.

What would convince you to do it?

.b

[burnside]

Shares are also available at https://bitfunder.com/asset/G.ASICMINER-PT.

Bitfunder G.ASICMINER-PT 24h volume: 245
BTC-TC ASICMINER-PT 24h volume: 195.5

...the Weexchange passthrough for BTC at Bitfunder isn't too big a deal, and you may benefit from increased liquidity at Bitfunder.

7d volume:

Bitfunder G.ASICMINER-PT 7d: 1158.8
BTC-TC ASICMINER-PT 7d: 969.5

They're fairly close.  It's been the reverse some weeks.

Edit / add, case in point: apr 12, btct.co 7d: 1239.8 btc

[zamazama]

This is a great thread some good info on the ASICMINER project.

[philipma1957]

Shares are also available at https://bitfunder.com/asset/G.ASICMINER-PT.

Bitfunder G.ASICMINER-PT 24h volume: 245
BTC-TC ASICMINER-PT 24h volume: 195.5

...the Weexchange passthrough for BTC at Bitfunder isn't too big a deal, and you may benefit from increased liquidity at Bitfunder.

7d volume:

Bitfunder G.ASICMINER-PT 7d: 1158.8
BTC-TC ASICMINER-PT 7d: 969.5

They're fairly close.  It's been the reverse some weeks.

Edit / add, case in point: apr 12, btct.co 7d: 1239.8 btc

Okay I read the thread and now have 1 share in your asicminer pt cost was .84 bit coins. 

today is the 15th of april  when do I get a dividend and where is it deposited does it go to my btct account?
  I would like to buy  a share a week or a share every 10 days. please get back to my question thanks in advance.  phil

[Franktank]

Okay I read the thread and now have 1 share in your asicminer pt cost was .84 bit coins. 

today is the 15th of april  when do I get a dividend and where is it deposited does it go to my btct account?
  I would like to buy  a share a week or a share every 10 days. please get back to my question thanks in advance.  phil

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148827.msg1802908#msg1802908

[creativex]

Shares are also available at https://bitfunder.com/asset/G.ASICMINER-PT.

Bitfunder G.ASICMINER-PT 24h volume: 245
BTC-TC ASICMINER-PT 24h volume: 195.5

...the Weexchange passthrough for BTC at Bitfunder isn't too big a deal, and you may benefit from increased liquidity at Bitfunder.

7d volume:

Bitfunder G.ASICMINER-PT 7d: 1158.8
BTC-TC ASICMINER-PT 7d: 969.5

They're fairly close.  It's been the reverse some weeks.

Edit / add, case in point: apr 12, btct.co 7d: 1239.8 btc

Okay I read the thread and now have 1 share in your asicminer pt cost was .84 bit coins. 

today is the 15th of april  when do I get a dividend and where is it deposited does it go to my btct account?
  I would like to buy  a share a week or a share every 10 days. please get back to my question thanks in advance.  phil

Go here:

https://btct.co/security/ASICMINER-PT

Press the tab that says "history" and you will see what dividends have been paid and what day and time they've been paid. Yes they go directly to your account.

[seleme]

Okay I read the thread and now have 1 share in your asicminer pt cost was .84 bit coins.  

today is the 15th of april  when do I get a dividend and where is it deposited does it go to my btct account?
  I would like to buy  a share a week or a share every 10 days. please get back to my question thanks in advance.  phil

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148827.msg1802908#msg1802908

Wow, are these dividends going to be any higher, 0.007 is pretty low, it's 13-14 months of current share prices