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Author Topic: [CLOSED] MtRed (PPS, LP+, API, 0 FEE) STRATUM on mine.mtred.com:3333  (Read 166380 times)
Chemicalbro
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April 11, 2013, 02:58:48 PM
 #1021

Not sure if people just aren't reading or didn't see, but he moved half the balance to processing which he is going to release in about a weeks time (give or take). He also said estimated for the last long round will be paid.

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April 11, 2013, 03:22:40 PM
 #1022

Not sure if people just aren't reading or didn't see, but he moved half the balance to processing which he is going to release in about a weeks time (give or take). He also said estimated for the last long round will be paid.

Wow.. i need to drink more coffee i think.. missed it Smiley

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April 11, 2013, 04:22:26 PM
 #1023

Not sure if people just aren't reading or didn't see, but he moved half the balance to processing which he is going to release in about a weeks time (give or take). He also said estimated for the last long round will be paid.
I think the half balance available is all the pool really has left.  I think he is giving it all out first come first serve with limitations to give everyone a chance to get their share of that half.  I think he will cover latecomers withdrawing beyond the half of what is owed that is already available using BTC donated to MtRed to the extent possible.  I do not think he even tried to imply that everyone (or even anyone) would get 100%.
Hey guys, It saddens me to announce that MtRed will be shutting down.
 
We are, with this current block, going to surpass a negative buffer half of what is owed to miners.  We have had a negative buffer for a while now, not this bad, but with the price soaring well over $200 USD per coin I can not allow this to continue. It was always the plan that if the buffer ever went to half of what is owed that we would shutdown. Up until January I probably would have been able to cover such an event out of pocket, but I must admit that is not possible today.
 
How did it get this bad? Two main reasons, programming incompetence on my part has overpaid a vast amount of BTC over the last 2 years, and server bills upwards of $700.  During which times Bitcoin prices were steady but low compared to today. These factors plus the very unlikely sustainability of running a 0% fee PPS pool, and my naive experience in running something as large as MtRed are what I believe is why I have failed you.
 
In order to spread remaining funds as equally to the miners as we can, certain actions will be taken over the course of the next two months.
 
The plan to release the remaining Bitcoins is as follow.
 
You will have two weeks to withdraw the first half of your balances. After the two weeks, you will be able to withdraw the remaining half of your balance. After that, for those who didn't withdraw in the first two weeks will be able to withdraw their remaining balance. As the pool balances reaches zero I will import the 1MtRed account and pay off remain withdraws with that.

Reviewing the code, the orphan was credited, but wasn't subtracted from the processing balance. But in the coming weeks we will be using the processing field to store your remain balance.

Payouts will begin this evening.

Again, I am truly sorry to have failed the MtRed miners, the Bitcoin community, and myself.
 
-RR
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April 11, 2013, 04:56:50 PM
 #1024

Aye, it was on irc he said estimate will be paid (which is nice, but if it didn't happen I don't think many would get too perturbed)

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April 12, 2013, 05:05:53 AM
 #1025

I just feel the need to point out that the stats I calculated (at a MtRed miner's request) about MtRed showed that, as of not long ago, they would have had about a 1500 BTC buffer at that time.  MtRed luck has not been bad enough to drain a 1500 BTC buffer at the difficulties we've been at lately.  And there were only a few (6?) orphaned blocks in that time period.

To me, it seems more likely that the pool cashed out while the USD price was high, no?  Hell of a coincidence that the pool closes the day the price reaches an all time high? Either that or cashed out a while back and didn't have a buffer anymore. No way to know, since that data isn't really public.

But, all and all, I hope people don't give too much praise here.  Feel free to run the numbers yourself.

-wk

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April 12, 2013, 08:02:11 AM
 #1026

I just feel the need to point out that the stats I calculated (at a MtRed miner's request) about MtRed showed that, as of not long ago, they would have had about a 1500 BTC buffer at that time.  MtRed luck has not been bad enough to drain a 1500 BTC buffer at the difficulties we've been at lately.  And there were only a few (6?) orphaned blocks in that time period.

To me, it seems more likely that the pool cashed out while the USD price was high, no?  Hell of a coincidence that the pool closes the day the price reaches an all time high? Either that or cashed out a while back and didn't have a buffer anymore. No way to know, since that data isn't really public.

But, all and all, I hope people don't give too much praise here.  Feel free to run the numbers yourself.

-wk

Did you maybe include NMC blocks?

Edit:
FWIW, taking out NMC and accounting for orphans, I get a positive buffer of ~ 295btc.

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April 12, 2013, 08:32:39 AM
 #1027

I just feel the need to point out that the stats I calculated (at a MtRed miner's request) about MtRed showed that, as of not long ago, they would have had about a 1500 BTC buffer at that time.  MtRed luck has not been bad enough to drain a 1500 BTC buffer at the difficulties we've been at lately.  And there were only a few (6?) orphaned blocks in that time period.

To me, it seems more likely that the pool cashed out while the USD price was high, no?  Hell of a coincidence that the pool closes the day the price reaches an all time high? Either that or cashed out a while back and didn't have a buffer anymore. No way to know, since that data isn't really public.

But, all and all, I hope people don't give too much praise here.  Feel free to run the numbers yourself.

-wk

Did you maybe include NMC blocks?

Edit:
FWIW, taking out NMC and accounting for orphans, I get a positive buffer of ~ 295btc.
Did rr pay server fees himself? or did it come out of the BTC?
I remember selling BTC at $5 (50 of them one time to pay a $250 bill, day before yesterday 1BTC would have covered that bill) to help pay my server fees..... if you don't factor that stuff in the "stats I calculated" don't really mean much imo...

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April 12, 2013, 08:56:24 AM
 #1028

I just feel the need to point out that the stats I calculated (at a MtRed miner's request) about MtRed showed that, as of not long ago, they would have had about a 1500 BTC buffer at that time.  MtRed luck has not been bad enough to drain a 1500 BTC buffer at the difficulties we've been at lately.  And there were only a few (6?) orphaned blocks in that time period.

To me, it seems more likely that the pool cashed out while the USD price was high, no?  Hell of a coincidence that the pool closes the day the price reaches an all time high? Either that or cashed out a while back and didn't have a buffer anymore. No way to know, since that data isn't really public.

But, all and all, I hope people don't give too much praise here.  Feel free to run the numbers yourself.

-wk

Did you maybe include NMC blocks?

Edit:
FWIW, taking out NMC and accounting for orphans, I get a positive buffer of ~ 295btc.
Did rr pay server fees himself? or did it come out of the BTC?
I remember selling BTC at $5 (50 of them one time to pay a $250 bill, day before yesterday 1BTC would have covered that bill) to help pay my server fees..... if you don't factor that stuff in the "stats I calculated" don't really mean much imo...

Pool op is only supposed to use his own money and donations/fees to pay server costs, not the buffer.

Saying the pool is bankrupt when there's supposed to be a positive buffer is either:
1. A poor explanation if redditorrex actually meant that *he* had run out of donation money to run the pool servers;
2. redditorrex was using buffer money to cover server costs with intention of paying back later.

Either way, this is why we don't find more zero fee pps pools.


Edit Sorry graet, sounded a bit harsher than I wanted it to. But although I feel for redditorrex and I think he's a standup guy, this could all have been avoided if he'd charged a fee - better yet, a fee and split the pool like Ozcoin.

I get a bit pissed at miners using a 0% PPS pool and then getting all whiney when it goes bankrupt. I and lots of others (you included) have been warning all and sundry about the dangers of zero fee pools in general, let alone a zero fee PPS pool, for a good while.

 Edit 2: I'll have to redo my stats anyway - I was counting from when the pool started, not when it changed to PPS.

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April 12, 2013, 09:19:03 AM
 #1029

Reanalysing the pool stats and placing the start of PPS at 12th October, I put the buffer at -457.47388392 btc

redditorex was being quite honest, folks. wizkid057, mind checking your stats and updating your (much more fun with which to play) charts?



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April 12, 2013, 09:46:47 AM
 #1030

Reanalysing the pool stats and placing the start of PPS at 12th October, I put the buffer at -457.47388392 btc

redditorex was being quite honest, folks. wizkid057, mind checking your stats and updating your (much more fun with which to play) charts?




Not sure what you're using for your stats, but, mine are run from the first block listed to 02/06/2013... did you account for 50 BTC blocks?

I ran the block heights and given coinbase transaction ids for every block against the blockchain and determined orphaned blocks, subsidy, and such using that data.

Edit: Here is the data used to compile my graphs: http://vpn.wizkid057.com/mtred_block_data_v2.csv ... if I screwed up somewhere, accept my appolgies in advance, however, I do believe the data is sound.

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April 12, 2013, 10:19:55 AM
 #1031

Reanalysing the pool stats and placing the start of PPS at 12th October, I put the buffer at -457.47388392 btc

redditorex was being quite honest, folks. wizkid057, mind checking your stats and updating your (much more fun with which to play) charts?




Not sure what you're using for your stats, but, mine are run from the first block listed to 02/06/2013... did you account for 50 BTC blocks?

I ran the block heights and given coinbase transaction ids for every block against the blockchain and determined orphaned blocks, subsidy, and such using that data.

Edit: Here is the data used to compile my graphs: http://vpn.wizkid057.com/mtred_block_data_v2.csv ... if I screwed up somewhere, accept my appolgies in advance, however, I do believe the data is sound.

I can see what you've done, I think. You've included all blocks from the start of the pool. But MTRED was only PPS from 12th October 2012 (edit:2011, dammit! Now I have to do over grumbles). Prior to that it was Proportional, and so you can't include that time when you're calculating the buffer.


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April 12, 2013, 10:47:32 AM
 #1032

OK, stats fixed. Sorry folk!

MTRED buffer from 12 October 2011 until bankruptcy is -33.68262 btc.

data here: http://www.bitbin.it/YsYg9VtP




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April 12, 2013, 11:26:02 AM
 #1033

OK, stats fixed. Sorry folk!

MTRED buffer from 12 October 2011 until bankruptcy is -33.68262 btc.

data here: http://www.bitbin.it/YsYg9VtP





Not home so cant verify your data... but if you take mine and simple set the buffer to 0 when they started PPS then its still almost 1000 BTC positive...

Ideas where/how our datas differ so much?

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April 12, 2013, 12:32:18 PM
 #1034

OK, stats fixed. Sorry folk!

MTRED buffer from 12 October 2011 until bankruptcy is -33.68262 btc.

data here: http://www.bitbin.it/YsYg9VtP





Not home so cant verify your data... but if you take mine and simple set the buffer to 0 when they started PPS then its still almost 1000 BTC positive...

Ideas where/how our datas differ so much?


Because MTRED didn't start using PPS until 12th October 2011. You're including blocks that were paid proportionally.

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April 12, 2013, 01:13:16 PM
 #1035

OK, stats fixed. Sorry folk!

MTRED buffer from 12 October 2011 until bankruptcy is -33.68262 btc.

data here: http://www.bitbin.it/YsYg9VtP





Not home so cant verify your data... but if you take mine and simple set the buffer to 0 when they started PPS then its still almost 1000 BTC positive...

Ideas where/how our datas differ so much?


Because MTRED didn't start using PPS until 12th October 2011. You're including blocks that were paid proportionally.

As I mentioned, if you set the buffer to 0 on that day using my data you still end up with about a 1000 BTC buffer. We both cant be right...

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April 12, 2013, 01:41:25 PM
 #1036

OK, stats fixed. Sorry folk!

MTRED buffer from 12 October 2011 until bankruptcy is -33.68262 btc.

data here: http://www.bitbin.it/YsYg9VtP





Not home so cant verify your data... but if you take mine and simple set the buffer to 0 when they started PPS then its still almost 1000 BTC positive...

Ideas where/how our datas differ so much?


Because MTRED didn't start using PPS until 12th October 2011. You're including blocks that were paid proportionally.

As I mentioned, if you set the buffer to 0 on that day using my data you still end up with about a 1000 BTC buffer. We both cant be right...

Also, your dataset only goes up until 3rd Feb. It doesn't explain all the difference though. I'm still comparing datasets to find the differences. You might want to do the same.

Edit: From a quick check it appears you're also neglecting to subtract orphaned blocks. Thats the only other difference I can find so far. eg:

My dataset:

Code:
    timestamp  shares difficulty   amount orphan    buffer
165 1311026854  621401    1563028 50.13674      0 301.86576
166 1311065220 2810450    1563028 50.10101      0 261.88112
167 1311067565  236270    1563028 50.01450      0 304.33534
168 1311223958 9686912    1690896 50.00550      0  67.86614
169 1311269109 2770041    1690896 50.01400      0  35.94674
170 1311272103  270857    1690896 50.02950      1  27.93274
171 1311287350 1074074    1690896 50.08295      0  46.20250
172 1311326567 2407824    1690896 50.03550      0  24.98779
173 1311356721 1998726    1690896 50.12313      0  15.86280
174 1311372823 1041527    1690896 50.07450      0  35.09333
175 1311377806  409263    1690896 50.01850      0  73.00539

Your dataset:
Code:
        epoch difficulty sharecount blockreward confirmed poolbuffer
165 1311026854    1563028     621401    50.13674       Yes  301.86579
166 1311065220    1563028    2810450    50.10101       Yes  261.88116
167 1311067565    1563028     236270    50.01450       Yes  304.33538
168 1311223958    1690896    9686912    50.00550       Yes   67.86618
169 1311269109    1690896    2770041    50.01400       Yes   35.94678
170 1311272103    1690896     270857    50.02950   Invalid   77.96228
171 1311287350    1690896    1074074    50.08295       Yes   96.23204
172 1311326567    1690896    2407824    50.03550       Yes   75.01733
173 1311356721    1690896    1998726    50.12313       Yes   65.89234
174 1311372823    1690896    1041527    50.07450       Yes   85.12287
175 1311377806    1690896     409263    50.01850       Yes  123.03493

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April 12, 2013, 02:46:08 PM
 #1037

Thanks for the hard work in maintaining/developing this fine pool. Sad to see it go.

Don't get caught up in the game and have a nice day!
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April 12, 2013, 06:44:34 PM
 #1038

OK, stats fixed. Sorry folk!

MTRED buffer from 12 October 2011 until bankruptcy is -33.68262 btc.

data here: http://www.bitbin.it/YsYg9VtP





Not home so cant verify your data... but if you take mine and simple set the buffer to 0 when they started PPS then its still almost 1000 BTC positive...

Ideas where/how our datas differ so much?


Because MTRED didn't start using PPS until 12th October 2011. You're including blocks that were paid proportionally.

As I mentioned, if you set the buffer to 0 on that day using my data you still end up with about a 1000 BTC buffer. We both cant be right...

Also, your dataset only goes up until 3rd Feb. It doesn't explain all the difference though. I'm still comparing datasets to find the differences. You might want to do the same.

Edit: From a quick check it appears you're also neglecting to subtract orphaned blocks. Thats the only other difference I can find so far. eg:

My dataset:

Code:
    timestamp  shares difficulty   amount orphan    buffer
165 1311026854  621401    1563028 50.13674      0 301.86576
166 1311065220 2810450    1563028 50.10101      0 261.88112
167 1311067565  236270    1563028 50.01450      0 304.33534
168 1311223958 9686912    1690896 50.00550      0  67.86614
169 1311269109 2770041    1690896 50.01400      0  35.94674
170 1311272103  270857    1690896 50.02950      1  27.93274
171 1311287350 1074074    1690896 50.08295      0  46.20250
172 1311326567 2407824    1690896 50.03550      0  24.98779
173 1311356721 1998726    1690896 50.12313      0  15.86280
174 1311372823 1041527    1690896 50.07450      0  35.09333
175 1311377806  409263    1690896 50.01850      0  73.00539

Your dataset:
Code:
        epoch difficulty sharecount blockreward confirmed poolbuffer
165 1311026854    1563028     621401    50.13674       Yes  301.86579
166 1311065220    1563028    2810450    50.10101       Yes  261.88116
167 1311067565    1563028     236270    50.01450       Yes  304.33538
168 1311223958    1690896    9686912    50.00550       Yes   67.86618
169 1311269109    1690896    2770041    50.01400       Yes   35.94678
170 1311272103    1690896     270857    50.02950   Invalid   77.96228
171 1311287350    1690896    1074074    50.08295       Yes   96.23204
172 1311326567    1690896    2407824    50.03550       Yes   75.01733
173 1311356721    1690896    1998726    50.12313       Yes   65.89234
174 1311372823    1690896    1041527    50.07450       Yes   85.12287
175 1311377806    1690896     409263    50.01850       Yes  123.03493

*facepalm*

Looks like a typo in my code that let them get tallied. I will recalculate when I get home. Your estimate still seems low.. . Sorry folks. Sad

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April 12, 2013, 07:13:35 PM
 #1039

@wizkid057 and organofcorti

Why the witch-hunt? He's decided to shut down the pool. He's planning on paying users.

I don't see the problem.

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April 12, 2013, 07:20:31 PM
 #1040

@wizkid057 and organofcorti

Why the witch-hunt? He's decided to shut down the pool. He's planning on paying users.

I don't see the problem.

Based on my initial data, it seemed appropriate to mention that the reasoning didn't fit the data.

organofcorti actually appears to not be on my side anyway. Wink after correcting my data I may not be on my side either. Lol


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