Is something actually being developed to solve the centralized exchange problem?

[thejaytiesto]

I feel like Bitcoin is never going to properly go to the next level until we fix the problem of centralized exchanges. I feel everytime a great improvement is made that makes the price go up, it gets ruined thanks to some idiot in charge of a big volume exchange getting "hacked".

We were on a good uptrend thanks to good job made by Core devs with up and coming segwit and so on, plus the halving also had a really solid uptrend. This got destroyed thanks to the Bitfinex disaster. Im sure we would be at 700+ as a new floor right now if the Bitfinex disaster didn't happen.

We must then put lot of effort into coming up with a solution to avoid this from happening again. The question is if this is even possible. How to create a decentralized equivalent of Poloniex (note, not a marketplace like bitsquare.io but a proper exchange with a broker where you can make fast trading operations, have liquidity available and hold long positions without fear of getting Goxed)

Can lightning and sidechain allow for this? Maybe through payment channels or something so no one has to hold all the funds in a single point of failure? I don't know, I can't code I just feel like whoever comes up with a solution will be an hero.

[B1tUnl0ck3r]

I feel like Bitcoin is never going to properly go to the next level until we fix the problem of centralized exchanges. I feel everytime a great improvement is made that makes the price go up, it gets ruined thanks to some idiot in charge of a big volume exchange getting "hacked".

We were on a good uptrend thanks to good job made by Core devs with up and coming segwit and so on, plus the halving also had a really solid uptrend. This got destroyed thanks to the Bitfinex disaster. Im sure we would be at 700+ as a new floor right now if the Bitfinex disaster didn't happen.

We must then put lot of effort into coming up with a solution to avoid this from happening again. The question is if this is even possible. How to create a decentralized equivalent of Poloniex (note, not a marketplace like bitsquare.io but a proper exchange with a broker where you can make fast trading operations, have liquidity available and hold long positions without fear of getting Goxed)

Can lightning and sidechain allow for this? Maybe through payment channels or something so no one has to hold all the funds in a single point of failure? I don't know, I can't code I just feel like whoever comes up with a solution will be an hero.

the hurdle is to be able to link $ (bank) account to bitcoin account to make this work. It's easy to have decentralized exchange for crypto to crypto however how to get the dollars collateral secured?

[Carlton Banks]

https://bitsquare.io

[calkob]

great idea, im sure it will come along and yeah i understand the point on Bitsquare, in the uk the buy and sell orders are very limited.

[Shinseiten]

Noob question: If enough people open a fullnode, would it help somehow? There will be some kind of help in this way?
I'm a full stack web developer who want, for study purpose, open a fullnode. But it seems a bit expensive for this kind of motivation.

I'm actually developing on API's for CRUD operation (like integrate bitcoins as payment method), but I feel like I need more. I want to work with bitcoins but I need more tools.

[marky89]

Can lightning and sidechain allow for this? Maybe through payment channels or something so no one has to hold all the funds in a single point of failure? I don't know, I can't code I just feel like whoever comes up with a solution will be an hero.

I'm sure that improvements will be made on the crypto-to-crypto decentralized trading front, but this doesn't work for BTC/USD or BTC/CNY. You can't have fiat without custodians. Things like Tether fool some people into thinking it's possible. But no matter what kind of arrangement you have, if something is backed by fiat, there is custodianship. You can peg it and put it on a blockchain, but that's just security snake oil.

[B1tUnl0ck3r]

Can lightning and sidechain allow for this? Maybe through payment channels or something so no one has to hold all the funds in a single point of failure? I don't know, I can't code I just feel like whoever comes up with a solution will be an hero.

I'm sure that improvements will be made on the crypto-to-crypto decentralized trading front, but this doesn't work for BTC/USD or BTC/CNY. You can't have fiat without custodians. Things like Tether fool some people into thinking it's possible. But no matter what kind of arrangement you have, if something is backed by fiat, there is custodianship. You can peg it and put it on a blockchain, but that's just security snake oil.

I agree! what would be innovative is for a bank to integrate bitcoin wallet to the customer account... It could permit it. Like you said the real issue is custodianship... How to be sure that the other has the currency he says he has.

But bitsquare.io is awesome! I have looked into it and it seems super promising...

[manselr]

https://bitsquare.io

Did you read the OP? bitsquare is not an exchange like poloniex, it is a marketplace, you can't properly speculate and go in and out of fiat instantly, you settle the transaction with an individual, like localbitcoins.

[Carlton Banks]

https://bitsquare.io

Did you read the OP? bitsquare is not an exchange like poloniex, it is a marketplace, you can't properly speculate and go in and out of fiat instantly, you settle the transaction with an individual, like localbitcoins.

Did you? OP makes no mention or implication of fiat

[thejaytiesto]

https://bitsquare.io

Did you read the OP? bitsquare is not an exchange like poloniex, it is a marketplace, you can't properly speculate and go in and out of fiat instantly, you settle the transaction with an individual, like localbitcoins.

Did you? OP makes no mention or implication of fiat

Do you really think bitsquare is a solid Poloniex alternative? It is not, even if it was a crypto only exchange, it's still too slow. I don't think it will be viable until we have payment channels and someone smart enough to pull it.

Also by mentioning bitfinex i mentioned fiat implicitly. If we dont solve the fiat problem, we will be having bitfinex-mtgox incidents for life.

[B1tUnl0ck3r]

https://bitsquare.io

Did you read the OP? bitsquare is not an exchange like poloniex, it is a marketplace, you can't properly speculate and go in and out of fiat instantly, you settle the transaction with an individual, like localbitcoins.

Did you? OP makes no mention or implication of fiat

Do you really think bitsquare is a solid Poloniex alternative? It is not, even if it was a crypto only exchange, it's still too slow. I don't think it will be viable until we have payment channels and someone smart enough to pull it.

Also by mentioning bitfinex i mentioned fiat implicitly. If we dont solve the fiat problem, we will be having bitfinex-mtgox incidents for life.

It depends on your time horizon. It's true that bitsquare.io is yet not useful for fast trader... however if you wanna make a long term trade it's the perfect venue. One aspect that shocks me is how high the fees are on exchanges in general. it's pure madness. And the volume they requires to reach a more sustainable fee is massive. .

[Carlton Banks]

Do you really think bitsquare is a solid Poloniex alternative? It is not, even if it was a crypto only exchange, it's still too slow. I don't think it will be viable until we have payment channels and someone smart enough to pull it.

Also by mentioning bitfinex i mentioned fiat implicitly. If we dont solve the fiat problem, we will be having bitfinex-mtgox incidents for life.

Ok, but it's available today and does solve the 3rd party holder risk that motivated your OP. More progress in the tech will lead to fewer issues exchanging between fiat and BTC online, but there will always be risk to the fiat at some part/s of the process that can't be eliminated (affecting the most those wishing to realise fiat out of web fiat proxies)

Payments channels as I understand them could be used to remove the need for an exchange "hot wallet", but they also remove the need for a centralised exchange, as well as your objections (tx speed) to on-chain solutions like bitsquare. So I guess the long answer is that there is no perfect alternative, for now. Compromises only.

[Wind_FURY]

https://bitsquare.io

This but there is no volume currently. How many failures must we see before we get convinced that decentralized exchanges are the safest to use. We have seen MtGox hacked, Bitstamp, Bitfinex and other exchanges getting hacked or worse, stealing money from customers.

I think the effort should also be from the bitcoin whales. Do they really care about decentralized exchanges because if they do they have the means to hire and encourage market makers to start the action at Bitsquare. There is also the question of usability. Is Bitsquare good enough and stable to use?

[HostFat]

Maybe you should follow this:
https://github.com/Open-Transactions ( and this http://stashcrypto.com )

[VanDeinsberg12]

https://bitsquare.io

I think the effort should also be from the bitcoin whales. Do they really care about decentralized exchanges because if they do they have the means to hire and encourage market makers to start the action at Bitsquare. There is also the question of usability. Is Bitsquare good enough and stable to use?

But I doubt about the stability of bitsquare, and the decentralized system will sue the bitsquare is having a lot of the road. and different with the centralized system you can monitoring for easily and in bitsquare like a large road is be divided into some of the small roads. but I want to try and check about bitsquare.

[Wind_FURY]

Maybe you should follow this:
https://github.com/Open-Transactions ( and this http://stashcrypto.com )

Forgive me for asking this. Isn't Open Transactions a failed idea? From what I have read from before I think you need to trust an entity to use the platform. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[X7]

I feel like Bitcoin is never going to properly go to the next level until we fix the problem of centralized exchanges. I feel everytime a great improvement is made that makes the price go up, it gets ruined thanks to some idiot in charge of a big volume exchange getting "hacked".

We were on a good uptrend thanks to good job made by Core devs with up and coming segwit and so on, plus the halving also had a really solid uptrend. This got destroyed thanks to the Bitfinex disaster. Im sure we would be at 700+ as a new floor right now if the Bitfinex disaster didn't happen.

We must then put lot of effort into coming up with a solution to avoid this from happening again. The question is if this is even possible. How to create a decentralized equivalent of Poloniex (note, not a marketplace like bitsquare.io but a proper exchange with a broker where you can make fast trading operations, have liquidity available and hold long positions without fear of getting Goxed)

Can lightning and sidechain allow for this? Maybe through payment channels or something so no one has to hold all the funds in a single point of failure? I don't know, I can't code I just feel like whoever comes up with a solution will be an hero.

From what I know something called BitSquare

[Reid]

I feel like Bitcoin is never going to properly go to the next level until we fix the problem of centralized exchanges. I feel everytime a great improvement is made that makes the price go up, it gets ruined thanks to some idiot in charge of a big volume exchange getting "hacked".

We were on a good uptrend thanks to good job made by Core devs with up and coming segwit and so on, plus the halving also had a really solid uptrend. This got destroyed thanks to the Bitfinex disaster. Im sure we would be at 700+ as a new floor right now if the Bitfinex disaster didn't happen.

We must then put lot of effort into coming up with a solution to avoid this from happening again. The question is if this is even possible. How to create a decentralized equivalent of Poloniex (note, not a marketplace like bitsquare.io but a proper exchange with a broker where you can make fast trading operations, have liquidity available and hold long positions without fear of getting Goxed)

Can lightning and sidechain allow for this? Maybe through payment channels or something so no one has to hold all the funds in a single point of failure? I don't know, I can't code I just feel like whoever comes up with a solution will be an hero.

From what I know something called BitSquare

I think they are already discussing it at the next post read 2,3,4,5,6,7 and so on.

For OP:
First, is that really a signature of yours? Ain't it too large? At first look I thought you made a graph to enlighten the readers about the discussion.

Second, this can happen with poloniex also.

The real problem would be the people behind it. Centralizing it wont give the excitement anymore. You want something that will give authority in it. It cannot be done or bitcoin will lose all its customers right?
Just my opinion though. I am still new with this. Not a coder also.

[gentlemand]

I feel like Bitcoin is never going to properly go to the next level until we fix the problem of centralized exchanges. I feel everytime a great improvement is made that makes the price go up, it gets ruined thanks to some idiot in charge of a big volume exchange getting "hacked".

Centralised exchanges aren't the problem. It's centralised exchanges run by dishonest or slack morons that are the problem and the Bitcoin users willing to put up with unacceptably shit service who permit them to exist by giving them business.

It really feels like a lot of Bitcoiners still don't quite live in the real world. Would you put your life savings in dollars into a bank on another continent with unclear ownership, no regulation, no proven reserves, no physical address, no proper contact details and no transparent security arrangements? I would not. I won't do it with Bitcoin either.

If an exchange was run by NASDAQ then there wouldn't be any major problems. Gox was a no brainer. Bitfinex was a no brainer. Neither are professional or regulated organisations.

[Wind_FURY]

I feel like Bitcoin is never going to properly go to the next level until we fix the problem of centralized exchanges. I feel everytime a great improvement is made that makes the price go up, it gets ruined thanks to some idiot in charge of a big volume exchange getting "hacked".

Centralised exchanges aren't the problem. It's centralised exchanges run by dishonest or slack morons that are the problem and the Bitcoin users willing to put up with unacceptably shit service who permit them to exist by giving them business.

It really feels like a lot of Bitcoiners still don't quite live in the real world. Would you put your life savings in dollars into a bank on another continent with unclear ownership, no regulation, no proven reserves, no physical address, no proper contact details and no transparent security arrangements? I would not. I won't do it with Bitcoin either.

If an exchange was run by NASDAQ then there wouldn't be any major problems. Gox was a no brainer. Bitfinex was a no brainer. Neither are professional or regulated organisations.

Isn't the purpose of bitcoin is to eliminate trust in the equation in making transactions and trades? Wasn't it written in Satoshi's paper?

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

"Commerce on the Internet has come to rely almost exclusively on financial institutions serving as
trusted third  parties  to process electronic payments.   While the  system works  well enough for
most   transactions,   it   still   suffers   from   the   inherent   weaknesses   of   the   trust   based   model"

The problem IS that. The trust based model that is mentioned in Satoshi's white paper should be replaced by a P2P, decentralized, trustless model. Bitsquare.io is in the right direction, if only more people with the skills would put more time and work on it.

[PremiumCodeX]

InstantDEX will be supposed to be an alternative to the centralized exchange in the future. Due to its new and different being, it will need alot of testing, though ( because of the new technics ) and as a matter of fact decentralization is not being bulletproof against every attack so until I see that it is safer than my exchanges I appreciate my exchanges, that I am familiar with and I am in good touch with their developer teams, a bit more.

[gentlemand]

Isn't the purpose of bitcoin is to eliminate trust in the equation in making transactions and trades? Wasn't it written in Satoshi's paper?

Of course, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum and maybe never will. There'll always be the need to interact with fiat.

Bitsquare's great for what it is but I'll guess that very few people use exchanges for the straightforward buying and selling of Bitcoin. They're there to play market and I don't think there's a way of realistically decentralising that yet.

[Wind_FURY]

But you have to put a little faith in it. Bitcoin and blockchains is quite new to us. You do not think that we are only scratching the surface here and have not seen the full potential of the technology? I believe it would take a while before we could all embrace it to become a part of our daily lives. It is like how the people from before fully embraced paper money. It took a while, 400 years I think before our ancestors were able to let go of their gold and silver coins and accept to use paper money.

[Shinseiten]

A nice guide to help people to open fullnodes.
A nice sensibilization campaign to make people love fullnodes.
A nice way to make fullnodes cheaper.
And in the dark (?), open them!

I thought it was funny put like that but yeah, I'm serious. I would like to open my fullnode to learn more and maybe create a business with it (i'm a programmer).