France, Germany want limits on encryption to fight terrorism

[Gronthaing]

Everybody knows that all terrorists (in the western world) are muslims, so they could just ban islam, close down all their places of worship, and deport all muslims to muslim countries where they could all live happily forever and the terror problem would be solved. No need to block encryption. Alas, it's way too late to think of that. One minister in France is muslim, and London's mayor is muslim, too. So the open society will gradually loose it openness.

Didn't know breivik was muslim. Or that the neo nazis that did these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus_serial_murders and the cologne bombing were muslim. Or that the guys doing the pipe bomb attacks in northern ireland are muslim. Or that c18, white wolves and related groups are muslim. Etc.

I meant in the present times. During the last decade in the western world, all terror has been coming from muslim. I know the past was different, but I do not live in the past. Also, by terror, I mean people dying. In France and Germany, there's been people painting pigs on the walls of a mosque but I don't see that as terror.

Not sure you live in the present either:
breivik - 2011
bosphorus serial murders - until 2006
northern ireland - current: http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/northern-ireland-top-eu-target-10315447
c18 and related groups - probably current: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/belfast-racists-threaten-to-cut-romanian-babys-throat-28484870.html

And here are a few more:
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201208050006
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201507230080
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201002180013
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=200907290025
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201511270001

You can say recent terror attacks in the west by jihadists have been the most deadly. That is probably true. But not the only type of terrorist attacks in the western world. And not even the most common type. According to europol for the year 2015 for example, out of over 200 terrorist attacks and attempted terrorist attacks in europe less than 20 were by jihadists. Can't you see this is just the latest excuse for them to do something they have been trying for a long time? Everyone is panicking about the muslims that are going to kill us all that they decided to try again.

[Azael]

I think of it a bit like this on 'limits on encryption'. As a lot of people spend many hours sometimes more time online than they do in real life it is like everybody would leave their house unlocked and allow video cameras in it that can be switched on at any time to "make sure you're safe" or so the government can see you aren't up to something you shouldn't be.

Obviously people don't want this and when the older generation die suggestions like these will become political suicide.

[countryfree]

Everybody knows that all terrorists (in the western world) are muslims, so they could just ban islam, close down all their places of worship, and deport all muslims to muslim countries where they could all live happily forever and the terror problem would be solved. No need to block encryption. Alas, it's way too late to think of that. One minister in France is muslim, and London's mayor is muslim, too. So the open society will gradually loose it openness.

Didn't know breivik was muslim. Or that the neo nazis that did these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus_serial_murders and the cologne bombing were muslim. Or that the guys doing the pipe bomb attacks in northern ireland are muslim. Or that c18, white wolves and related groups are muslim. Etc.

I meant in the present times. During the last decade in the western world, all terror has been coming from muslim. I know the past was different, but I do not live in the past. Also, by terror, I mean people dying. In France and Germany, there's been people painting pigs on the walls of a mosque but I don't see that as terror.

Not sure you live in the present either:
breivik - 2011
bosphorus serial murders - until 2006
northern ireland - current: http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/northern-ireland-top-eu-target-10315447
c18 and related groups - probably current: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/belfast-racists-threaten-to-cut-romanian-babys-throat-28484870.html

And here are a few more:
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201208050006
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201507230080
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201002180013
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=200907290025
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201511270001

You can say recent terror attacks in the west by jihadists have been the most deadly. That is probably true. But not the only type of terrorist attacks in the western world. And not even the most common type. According to europol for the year 2015 for example, out of over 200 terrorist attacks and attempted terrorist attacks in europe less than 20 were by jihadists. Can't you see this is just the latest excuse for them to do something they have been trying for a long time? Everyone is panicking about the muslims that are going to kill us all that they decided to try again.

I guess we don't have the same definition of "terror" nor "in the present time".

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/belfast-racists-threaten-to-cut-romanian-babys-throat-28484870.html
This example is really laughable. One threat 7 years ago.

There's no more terror in Ireland. It's a very quiet country by all standards. Compare the deaths by irish nationalists in the past 5 years, to the deaths by muslims in the past 5 years. The ratio is probably around 1 to 100.

[mOgliE]

Only a fool would ask for this.  It will cause more terrorism... alas.. our "leaders" can barely turn on a computer and refuse to learn anything new or useful soo....

Lol!
That's rather true. I'm looking forward the day we'll have engineers at the head of our states...
Then the country will be ruled by science and logic, that'll be the best era of humanity!

It doesn't work... Common sense and free market are the only sustainable path. Humans aren't averageable. There will always be the ones to create chaos in planning... Those acting voluntarily are even less problematic than the involuntary ones... Those, man, what ever the plan can crash anything... Specially the best plans...

Yeah sure, free market is working just fine, I mean does anything happening currently is bad?
I mean, it's not like world economy is shrinking!

[BADecker]

Generally no government acts in a terroristic manner towards their people. Why should they? They would be tearing down the profits they make in taxes. The government of Venezuela is finding that out right now.

The exception is when a people becomes too free. Free people don't pay taxes. So, their government has to terrorize them to get them to pay more taxes. The example of this lies in the US government doing the 9/11 thing to its citizens. Then they had an excuse to go to bigger war in the Middle East, which propped the banks up (through armament loans) which is propping all of America up in many ways.

France and Germany are trying to do similar things in their countries, but these countries have a different law format than the USA. So, it is not working quite the same way.

In fact, the UK is the only nation in Europe that has a law set-up similar to the USA. That's why they did the Brexit thing. And Brexit better be allowed to go through, or the British people will do drastic things to their government. Their legal system allows them to, whereas the legal systems of Germany and France don't.

[Gronthaing]

Everybody knows that all terrorists (in the western world) are muslims, so they could just ban islam, close down all their places of worship, and deport all muslims to muslim countries where they could all live happily forever and the terror problem would be solved. No need to block encryption. Alas, it's way too late to think of that. One minister in France is muslim, and London's mayor is muslim, too. So the open society will gradually loose it openness.

Didn't know breivik was muslim. Or that the neo nazis that did these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus_serial_murders and the cologne bombing were muslim. Or that the guys doing the pipe bomb attacks in northern ireland are muslim. Or that c18, white wolves and related groups are muslim. Etc.

I meant in the present times. During the last decade in the western world, all terror has been coming from muslim. I know the past was different, but I do not live in the past. Also, by terror, I mean people dying. In France and Germany, there's been people painting pigs on the walls of a mosque but I don't see that as terror.

Not sure you live in the present either:
breivik - 2011
bosphorus serial murders - until 2006
northern ireland - current: http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/northern-ireland-top-eu-target-10315447
c18 and related groups - probably current: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/belfast-racists-threaten-to-cut-romanian-babys-throat-28484870.html

And here are a few more:
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201208050006
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201507230080
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201002180013
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=200907290025
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201511270001

You can say recent terror attacks in the west by jihadists have been the most deadly. That is probably true. But not the only type of terrorist attacks in the western world. And not even the most common type. According to europol for the year 2015 for example, out of over 200 terrorist attacks and attempted terrorist attacks in europe less than 20 were by jihadists. Can't you see this is just the latest excuse for them to do something they have been trying for a long time? Everyone is panicking about the muslims that are going to kill us all that they decided to try again.

I guess we don't have the same definition of "terror" nor "in the present time".

Let me guess: it is not terrorism if a muslim is not involved? Because I posted several examples of non-muslim terrorism and you ignored them all. All within a decade like you first asked. All classified by authorities as terrorism. At least 3 of those examples in the last 5 years like in your revised time frame.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/belfast-racists-threaten-to-cut-romanian-babys-throat-28484870.html
This example is really laughable. One threat 7 years ago.

Yes. One example if you ignore the others.

There's no more terror in Ireland. It's a very quiet country by all standards.

There aren't many deaths from terror attacks in northern ireland. Not the same thing as no more terror attacks.

Compare the deaths by irish nationalists in the past 5 years, to the deaths by muslims in the past 5 years. The ratio is probably around 1 to 100.

I already said as much in my last post. Yes it is true that recent jihadist terror attacks have been the most deadly. But my point was that not all terrorism in the west is done by muslims like you said. In fact it is not even the majority as far as I can tell.

[designerusa]

Recently, I have noticed that the Western countries are electing very authoritarian rulers, who stand against personal freedom. Examples are Theressa May of England, Angela Merkel of Germany, Dalia Grybauskaitė of Lithuania, Park Geun-hye of South Korea, and Tsai Ing-wen of Taiwan. Soon we will be able to add Hitlery Clinton to this list as well.

i share same ideas with you. western world wants to have rulers who behave dictatorially. I dont know what the reason for electing those oppressive rulers. Maybe, western civilization came to its end and it will collapse very soon because of those rulers.

[Masha Sha]

Generally no government acts in a terroristic manner towards their people. Why should they? They would be tearing down the profits they make in taxes. The government of Venezuela is finding that out right now.

The exception is when a people becomes too free. Free people don't pay taxes. So, their government has to terrorize them to get them to pay more taxes. The example of this lies in the US government doing the 9/11 thing to its citizens. Then they had an excuse to go to bigger war in the Middle East, which propped the banks up (through armament loans) which is propping all of America up in many ways.

France and Germany are trying to do similar things in their countries, but these countries have a different law format than the USA. So, it is not working quite the same way.

In fact, the UK is the only nation in Europe that has a law set-up similar to the USA. That's why they did the Brexit thing. And Brexit better be allowed to go through, or the British people will do drastic things to their government. Their legal system allows them to, whereas the legal systems of Germany and France don't.

The deadliest army in the world to be able to eliminate greedy creditors... He who owes trillions but has the biggest army will always find a suitable deal with his creditors... Or else.

[Tyrantt]

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article97299902.html

PARIS - France and Germany pushed Tuesday for Europe-wide rules requiring messaging apps such as Telegram to limit encryption to help governments monitor communications among suspected extremists.

I think that they've missed something...
The unencrypted communications are part of the past and present, but no will not be part of the near future. They have to find better tools, not rules.

That's damn retarded. This may be the stupidest way, I mean ifthey payed attention to who is entering their country they wouldnt have this problem in the first place...

[d-leit]

If encryption is unreliable, then the bitcoin is unreliable.

bitcoin uses crypto, yes, but not encryption.

[bryant.coleman]

Recently, I have noticed that the Western countries are electing very authoritarian rulers, who stand against personal freedom. Examples are Theressa May of England, Angela Merkel of Germany, Dalia Grybauskaitė of Lithuania, Park Geun-hye of South Korea, and Tsai Ing-wen of Taiwan. Soon we will be able to add Hitlery Clinton to this list as well.

i share same ideas with you. western world wants to have rulers who behave dictatorially. I dont know what the reason for electing those oppressive rulers. Maybe, western civilization came to its end and it will collapse very soon because of those rulers.

The current immigrant crisis will destroy the European Union (Brexit has already happened as a result of this influx, the next will be Frexit and Nexit). And in the United States, if Hitlery gets elected as the POTUS this November, secessionist movements will be in full swing in southern states such as Texas and Arizona. The end is near!

[Masha Sha]

Recently, I have noticed that the Western countries are electing very authoritarian rulers, who stand against personal freedom. Examples are Theressa May of England, Angela Merkel of Germany, Dalia Grybauskaitė of Lithuania, Park Geun-hye of South Korea, and Tsai Ing-wen of Taiwan. Soon we will be able to add Hitlery Clinton to this list as well.

i share same ideas with you. western world wants to have rulers who behave dictatorially. I dont know what the reason for electing those oppressive rulers. Maybe, western civilization came to its end and it will collapse very soon because of those rulers.

The current immigrant crisis will destroy the European Union (Brexit has already happened as a result of this influx, the next will be Frexit and Nexit). And in the United States, if Hitlery gets elected as the POTUS this November, secessionist movements will be in full swing in southern states such as Texas and Arizona. The end is near!

Time to check if the wood is drying well for the datcha;)

[mOgliE]

Recently, I have noticed that the Western countries are electing very authoritarian rulers, who stand against personal freedom. Examples are Theressa May of England, Angela Merkel of Germany, Dalia Grybauskaitė of Lithuania, Park Geun-hye of South Korea, and Tsai Ing-wen of Taiwan. Soon we will be able to add Hitlery Clinton to this list as well.

i share same ideas with you. western world wants to have rulers who behave dictatorially. I dont know what the reason for electing those oppressive rulers. Maybe, western civilization came to its end and it will collapse very soon because of those rulers.

The current immigrant crisis will destroy the European Union (Brexit has already happened as a result of this influx, the next will be Frexit and Nexit). And in the United States, if Hitlery gets elected as the POTUS this November, secessionist movements will be in full swing in southern states such as Texas and Arizona. The end is near!

Same people claiming they don't want dictatorships are crying to get authoritarian laws forbiding Islam. ..
Funny how it's more "I want freedom but just for me" than "freedom is the right of all"...

[bryant.coleman]

Same people claiming they don't want dictatorships are crying to get authoritarian laws forbiding Islam. ..
Funny how it's more "I want freedom but just for me" than "freedom is the right of all"...

You are trying to confuse others with your posts. I want freedom from Islamic authoritarianism. I don't want to live under Shakira law, where women and children are stoned to death for blasphemy. I want freedom for everyone, from dictatorships and religious fanaticism. And by the way, could you point any of my posts, which call for "forbiding Islam"?

[criptix]

Same people claiming they don't want dictatorships are crying to get authoritarian laws forbiding Islam. ..
Funny how it's more "I want freedom but just for me" than "freedom is the right of all"...

You are trying to confuse others with your posts. I want freedom from Islamic authoritarianism. I don't want to live under Shakira law, where women and children are stoned to death for blasphemy. I want freedom for everyone, from dictatorships and religious fanaticism. And by the way, could you point any of my posts, which call for "forbiding Islam"?

Everyone knows that you are a xenophobic Islam hater why are you even hiding?

Atleast saddampuh has the decency to be a racist and Islam hater 100% of his time.

You support trump and the banning of Muslims in Europe and the US - there are basically  like hundreds of your post saying that.

[countryfree]

Everybody knows that all terrorists (in the western world) are muslims, so they could just ban islam, close down all their places of worship, and deport all muslims to muslim countries where they could all live happily forever and the terror problem would be solved. No need to block encryption. Alas, it's way too late to think of that. One minister in France is muslim, and London's mayor is muslim, too. So the open society will gradually loose it openness.

Didn't know breivik was muslim. Or that the neo nazis that did these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus_serial_murders and the cologne bombing were muslim. Or that the guys doing the pipe bomb attacks in northern ireland are muslim. Or that c18, white wolves and related groups are muslim. Etc.

I meant in the present times. During the last decade in the western world, all terror has been coming from muslim. I know the past was different, but I do not live in the past. Also, by terror, I mean people dying. In France and Germany, there's been people painting pigs on the walls of a mosque but I don't see that as terror.

Not sure you live in the present either:
breivik - 2011
bosphorus serial murders - until 2006
northern ireland - current: http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/northern-ireland-top-eu-target-10315447
c18 and related groups - probably current: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/belfast-racists-threaten-to-cut-romanian-babys-throat-28484870.html

And here are a few more:
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201208050006
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201507230080
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201002180013
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=200907290025
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201511270001

You can say recent terror attacks in the west by jihadists have been the most deadly. That is probably true. But not the only type of terrorist attacks in the western world. And not even the most common type. According to europol for the year 2015 for example, out of over 200 terrorist attacks and attempted terrorist attacks in europe less than 20 were by jihadists. Can't you see this is just the latest excuse for them to do something they have been trying for a long time? Everyone is panicking about the muslims that are going to kill us all that they decided to try again.

I guess we don't have the same definition of "terror" nor "in the present time".

Let me guess: it is not terrorism if a muslim is not involved? Because I posted several examples of non-muslim terrorism and you ignored them all. All within a decade like you first asked. All classified by authorities as terrorism. At least 3 of those examples in the last 5 years like in your revised time frame.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/belfast-racists-threaten-to-cut-romanian-babys-throat-28484870.html
This example is really laughable. One threat 7 years ago.

Yes. One example if you ignore the others.

There's no more terror in Ireland. It's a very quiet country by all standards.

There aren't many deaths from terror attacks in northern ireland. Not the same thing as no more terror attacks.

Compare the deaths by irish nationalists in the past 5 years, to the deaths by muslims in the past 5 years. The ratio is probably around 1 to 100.

I already said as much in my last post. Yes it is true that recent jihadist terror attacks have been the most deadly. But my point was that not all terrorism in the west is done by muslims like you said. In fact it is not even the majority as far as I can tell.

If nobody dies, there's no terror. I haven't ignored any of your examples, I just didn't checked them all. What examples do you have in the last few years, with people dying?

Regarding peace and safety, I'm ready to bet that Ireland is a much safer place than France, even without accounting terror attacks in France.

[Gronthaing]

Everybody knows that all terrorists (in the western world) are muslims, so they could just ban islam, close down all their places of worship, and deport all muslims to muslim countries where they could all live happily forever and the terror problem would be solved. No need to block encryption. Alas, it's way too late to think of that. One minister in France is muslim, and London's mayor is muslim, too. So the open society will gradually loose it openness.

Didn't know breivik was muslim. Or that the neo nazis that did these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus_serial_murders and the cologne bombing were muslim. Or that the guys doing the pipe bomb attacks in northern ireland are muslim. Or that c18, white wolves and related groups are muslim. Etc.

I meant in the present times. During the last decade in the western world, all terror has been coming from muslim. I know the past was different, but I do not live in the past. Also, by terror, I mean people dying. In France and Germany, there's been people painting pigs on the walls of a mosque but I don't see that as terror.

Not sure you live in the present either:
breivik - 2011
bosphorus serial murders - until 2006
northern ireland - current: http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/northern-ireland-top-eu-target-10315447
c18 and related groups - probably current: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/belfast-racists-threaten-to-cut-romanian-babys-throat-28484870.html

And here are a few more:
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201208050006
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201507230080
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201002180013
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=200907290025
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201511270001

You can say recent terror attacks in the west by jihadists have been the most deadly. That is probably true. But not the only type of terrorist attacks in the western world. And not even the most common type. According to europol for the year 2015 for example, out of over 200 terrorist attacks and attempted terrorist attacks in europe less than 20 were by jihadists. Can't you see this is just the latest excuse for them to do something they have been trying for a long time? Everyone is panicking about the muslims that are going to kill us all that they decided to try again.

I guess we don't have the same definition of "terror" nor "in the present time".

Let me guess: it is not terrorism if a muslim is not involved? Because I posted several examples of non-muslim terrorism and you ignored them all. All within a decade like you first asked. All classified by authorities as terrorism. At least 3 of those examples in the last 5 years like in your revised time frame.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/belfast-racists-threaten-to-cut-romanian-babys-throat-28484870.html
This example is really laughable. One threat 7 years ago.

Yes. One example if you ignore the others.

There's no more terror in Ireland. It's a very quiet country by all standards.

There aren't many deaths from terror attacks in northern ireland. Not the same thing as no more terror attacks.

Compare the deaths by irish nationalists in the past 5 years, to the deaths by muslims in the past 5 years. The ratio is probably around 1 to 100.

I already said as much in my last post. Yes it is true that recent jihadist terror attacks have been the most deadly. But my point was that not all terrorism in the west is done by muslims like you said. In fact it is not even the majority as far as I can tell.

If nobody dies, there's no terror.

More like if the terrorists are stopped it doesn't get attention. So you don't see it in the news. Terror attacks still go on regardless. Again, not the same thing as no terrorism.

I haven't ignored any of your examples, I just didn't checked them all. What examples do you have in the last few years, with people dying?

2 of the examples I gave before were from the last year. Another from 4 years ago. All with deaths and injuries. More can be found if you bother to search.

Regarding peace and safety, I'm ready to bet that Ireland is a much safer place than France, even without accounting terror attacks in France.

Don't know if that is true or not. But not the point. You were wrong in what you had said and i was providing proof you were. That is all.

[NeuroticFish]

I also agree that the forces in countries like Ireland or Israel know much better what to do against terrorism. From prevention to what to do if it happens (even minimize the media coverage!!).
But that doesn't mean the countries are safer.

"Unsafe" is defined more on the terrorist's desire to go there and make boom. The fact that some countries can prevent 90% of terrorist attack means nothing if the attempts are 10x more than in another, weaker defended country.

I think that one of the safest places is Svalbard, but that doesn't mean I'd live there.

[Masha Sha]

Sakha (Yakutia) Republic is a pretty safe bet... as soon as you leave Yakuts you are very soon on your own...  

[mOgliE]

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article97299902.html

PARIS - France and Germany pushed Tuesday for Europe-wide rules requiring messaging apps such as Telegram to limit encryption to help governments monitor communications among suspected extremists.

I think that they've missed something...
The unencrypted communications are part of the past and present, but no will not be part of the near future. They have to find better tools, not rules.

That's damn retarded. This may be the stupidest way, I mean ifthey payed attention to who is entering their country they wouldnt have this problem in the first place...

stupppppppiiiiiiiiiid !
One: you can't be sure of who enters because you can't block your whole territory.
Two: anyone can BECOME crazy/extremist or anything. In fact 90% of terrorists of the 5 last year's were already European citizens