A Question to Campaign Managers: How Do You Count Posts?

[Ardenyham]

Hello..
I've been noticing that The moderators of the forum are very active nowadays, and they constantly removing the old and dead threads..

I am part of SafeDice signature campaign. which is being Managed by SFR10..
so when I've noticed that my posts count getting lowered because of those moderators actions on old topics/threads.. I've sent a request to him to Adjust the Starting Post count again accordingly because some old threads removed...

Before I go further, I want to add some reference here to clear things little more:

1: Safedice Campaign's Participant Sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1o8ZmoGRx7xZl6x8tyJ68RC0PhSgep82Ix11PW3XWKes/edit?usp=sharing&pref=2&pli=1 (Archived: https://archive.is/8ENRN)
in the spreadsheet my post count is 937..
2: My profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=121917 (Archiveed: https://archive.is/aYCVD)
where it showing my last post count 944..
3: Link of My posts Page: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=121917;sa=showPosts (archived: https://archive.is/nbPZB)

So, If we see the spreadsheet and see my normal profile: 37+7=44. it show that I've only 7 new posts in the current week.

but if we see my posts in posts link.. you'll know I've 10 New posts.
(last pay day was 18 August. please count posts from 19 Aug)


But when I discussed that with my(campaign's) manager and try to explain the situation and request to fix this:

Messages with Screenshots:

Snip...

Thank You bro..

Now I want to bring your attention on a small thing. due to removing the old posts constantly the post count is getting lowered everyday.

my post count in the sheet is 937. but because of removing some old thread now it is 935..
(it will drop more,)

so, I request to please count my posts from 19 Aug(from next day of last payday)

SFR10 Replied:

I'm sorry but unfortunately I can't help you on that matter since others have asked for the same thing (in past) but the starting post count at the start of the round will always be the accountable one (regardless of threads or posts being deleted from that moment on wards). Best solution would be to not respond to duplicated threads / old threads with many pages / threads that require less quality (since these are the kind of threads that get deleted most of the time).

(Screenshot: http://imgur.com/a/p32xh)

Me:

I'm sorry but unfortunately I can't help you on that matter since others have asked for the same thing (in past) but the starting post count at the start of the round will always be the accountable one (regardless of threads or posts being deleted from that moment on wards). Best solution would be to not respond to duplicated threads / old threads with many pages / threads that require less quality (since these are the kind of threads that get deleted most of the time).

You are not understanding what I want to say.. my old posts are getting removed. because they are in dead threads.
I am not posting in dead threads now. but some old posts are surely in the dead threads. that's causing the post count down.

post count will constantly get lowered, no matter if I don't post in duplicate threads anymore.

(Screenshot: http://imgur.com/a/QA73I)


SFR10:

Actually I perfectly understood. Like I said: starting post count at the start of the round will always be the accountable one (regardless of threads or posts being deleted from that moment on wards). Meaning, the post count you ended up in your previous weekly period, will always be the starting post count for current weekly period (no matter old or recent threads get deleted, the basis will always be the starting count on that particular weekly period).

The second part of my previous reply was, just to give some pointers so you wouldn't end up having your post being a collateral damage on the process. Threads get deleted all the time (old and recent ones). It's not a new thing since if you check mod log, you'll see there's 106 deleted thread recently, that's why I said before, always post few more in case such things happen (deleted posts/threads or moved threads).

(Screenshot: http://imgur.com/a/wTTdz)

Me:

It means you won't actually count posts. you just using the starting numbers on spreadsheet and then see the final number of posts in user's profile an subtract..


for example:
if you check my profile you'll see that
I've wrote 10 posts so far after the last pay time. but according to your spreadsheet(where my post count is 937) I've only have 7 posts.. so You will ignore my 2 posts. right?


it means so far 2 old threads get removed.

and if by chance 20 posts removed at the end of the day. you'll deny my payment no matter if I wrote and have 20 posts. but just because my final posts count still show 935?

is it fair then?

(Screenshot: http://imgur.com/a/zpqTv)
(that 20 thread removing sentence I've just used for example.. but I meant it. so far 3 thread  removed BTW)

SFR10:

If 20 post suddenly gets deleted then that's your own fault for making those kinds of posts on those kinds of threads (your past action will always hunt you back so you have to pay for previous actions). When you make those posts, you also got paid (in which you shouldn't in the first place) so it would be fair for you to pay (be punished) for the consequences of your previous posts until you make up for the loss posts. If you don't like the way I manage, your free to join another campaign by tomorrow but, FYI all other campaigns handle this matter exactly the same.

Last tip:
Before you join any campaign, take some time to re-evaluate your past posts and delete low quality and unnecessary ones (also those posted on threads that would go against forum rules). It shouldn't take more than half a day (I did this myself and deleted around 600 of my own posts that I thought might get deleted due to those reasons - from my early days on this forum), so I encourage you to do so.

(Screenshot: http://imgur.com/a/PEsit)


sorry for my rude words.
This Logic and Policy completely Blown Up my Mind., how could a campaign manager punish me for those old posts which I've wrote around 3 year's of my forum period and which completely doesn't belong current campaign(or may be they are)..?
I believe my those posts didn't removed because those posts are off-topic or spammy posts. but the whole threads got removed because the threads got out of dated, and the question on those thread have been answered.


Finally I want to ask all campaign managers that how do you handle this? how do you count posts? (the the bold sentence in SFR's final messag)do you also ignore posts of current week just because some old posts got removed and post count got lowered?

[1715518308]

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[1715518308]

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[Lauda]

I understand their viewpoint. If they're doing it like this with everyone, then it is only fair to do it like this with you. This isn't a forum related matter, and thus I don't think it should be asked in meta. You could have sent a message to some of the other known campaign managers.

I believe my those posts didn't removed because those posts are off-topic or spammy posts. but the whole threads got removed because the threads got out of dated, and the question on those thread have been answered.

Generally it is not 'solved'/'out of date' threads that get removed (as in deleted or trashed). Those usually get locked and/or archived.

[yahoo62278]

I see this issue all the time. I use a spreadsheet and do post counts based upon xx hour or 1 day -xx hour of another day. For example this is from 1 of the campaigns im currently managing

When is payment day?

I will issue payments every week on wednesdays. Posts for each period will count from wednesday 00:01 to the following tuesday 23:59 UTC


Now i see the issue of numbers in the spreadsheet not adding up all the time as well. As you see above i count users posts from xx time to xx time so i know my numbers are right. In the beginning of my managing campaigns i thought maybe i made a mistake in my counting and would always do a recount. Then i messaged a few users and found out the post counts get changed by the deleted threads or old posts.

Now, my thoughts on this issue is SFR10 is in the wrong. A user has no control on which threads are deleted. Yes they chose to post in that thread but eventually spammy thread or not, all threads will be subject to deletion. Users should be looked at on a weekly or monthly basis dependant upon the pay period for each campaign.

What does that mean? That means each campaign manager should do a manual count of a users posts for the pay period and if the spreadsheet needs adjusted then adjust it. A user did their work for that week and shouldnt be punished for old threads. Now if a post isnt counted in the weekly count due to being spam or not constructive then yes the user is "fucked".

@SFR10 not tryin to pick on you but youre in the wrong IMO. I seen your statement bolded in OP " starting post count at the start of the round will always be the accountable one (regardless of threads or posts being deleted from that moment on wards)."  How many users have been cheated out of payment due to this stance? I think you might need to rethink some of your policies. Its not about you looking good to other users, its about you doing your job.

EDIT*
As you see he asked my opinion and i gave it. And ill stick by my opinion as far as its a bad manager if youre not doing your job. Looking like a hardass doesnt make you a good manager. I think youre capable of doing the job but on this rule you fail.

The more i think about it the more i feel you might be encouraging users to spam a little here. "The second part of my previous reply was, just to give some pointers so you wouldn't end up having your post being a collateral damage on the process. Threads get deleted all the time (old and recent ones). It's not a new thing since if you check mod log, you'll see there's 106 deleted thread recently, that's why I said before, always post few more in case such things happen (deleted posts/threads or moved threads)."

Those numbers we put on spreadsheets are generally just a guideline for us as well as users can see where theyre at IMO. If you go back and do a manual count,as you should be doing every payday, then you get their true count.



This is just my opinion of course but its how i do things.

[SFR10]

Deleted my last reply here as I posted this comment with my new decision:

My last response regarding this matter:

His PM:

you said all campaign managers do same, I've discussed this with yahoo
see here:

1:
http://imgur.com/a/UEZpQ

2:
http://imgur.com/a/u0JE6


this is really tirrable. why should I pay for those posts and accept punishment which I've wrote years ago and they removed by manager..

I believe my those  posts were not out of topic and spammy posts. but those threads actually got out of date, and removed by moderatos because those threads have done their work and the question have been answered there.

see please.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1595266.0

My PM:

My decision remains the same. Also as mentioned by Lauda, threads aren't removed just because their out of date or solutions have been presented on them (it's usually due to some other various reasons that go beyond forum rules). 


this is really tirrable. why should I pay for those posts and accept punishment which I've wrote years ago and they removed by manager. Same reason that those who copy paste content, receive ban punishments (no matter when they did it).


I'm strict at what I do, and I intend to continue on this path since it helps in cleaning the forum.

As much as I would like to teach a lesson to such users for their past actions, I would reconsider and count the exact posts made on each weekly period (even if their posts and thread they posted in, gets deleted), so it would be posts made at exact time that the period started and ended (without basing the ending post count on previous period).

[Joel_Jantsen]

Considering you have multiple alt's in various signature campaigns,you should have known the rules better.Just posting here to let people know that you own a Newbie-Legendary active account on the forum,all enrolled in signature campaigns.

Posting here after a long time.Had to disclose this genius with 4 alt accounts and he started a escrow service recently.I was shocked pretty much!
Let's break it down :


1.User jamalaezaz owns this address

Code:

1JAMALjpkZxhaw27EhzAeLvuiRNGBHxbgY

which is posted here : Open it! .Now pretty obvious its a vanity address with initials of his bitcointalk name.

Archive Link

Let's type in the address in wallet explorer and see the results ,shall we ?


Turns out the other address,that is

Code:

1JTCQzKbrBAb8kCMLqigh4gtHh9SMNf9Ay

from the wallet,belongs to
Digital_Lord,proof of which could be found by his posts here and here!

Archive Link

Now,lets look back at the wallet's image,is this address

Code:

1LordPnEi77bqPHj93hKYS1Cic8JwrecaE

familier ?   Definitely! Both of these address were given free I suppose in the Loyce's vanitygen thread!

Doesn't stop there,let's not forget about the other address from the wallet explorer,

Code:

1CsCJDe8hr8G5KQbEFoESrTaB5Dpt6tViy

.After hitting the search button,not surprised to see the address being used by the member (legendary) ardenyham,obviously the posted proof goes here,also here

Archive Link


So 3 alts down,are we done yet ? I don't think so..
Finally address

Code:

15gpWMV9uDWEG9bLpwJoXouhmJSHucv64H 

posted by jamalaezaz here,is used by another account which goes by the name of OrangeSeller.Not directly but he might have private messaged the OP of this thread to claim the service and hence OP updated it in his main post.The following Thread![Check the description of the main post.]

Archive Links :

http://web.archive.org/web/20160818182825/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1571403.msg15960293

http://web.archive.org/web/20160818182955/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1569704.0

http://web.archive.org/web/20160818183917/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=425135.msg15059022

Quite time consuming and I'm not done yet since I'm very damn sure there are other addresses and accounts that needs further investigation.

[Lauda]

A user has no control on which threads are deleted. Yes they chose to post in that thread but eventually spammy thread or not, all threads will be subject to deletion.

What was said here:"all threads will be subject to deletion." is false. Only threads that are either against the rules (there were examples where people kept replying to referral spam; even NLC bots in Speculation section) and threads that are really insubstantial/duplicate/etc. get trashed. Otherwise, threads either get locked and/or archived which does not negatively impact your post count. It really comes down to where you post and what you post. I don't see why nonconstructive posts, or posts made in 'spammy threads' should be counted. The signature campaigns are supporting more than enough spam as it is.

@SFR10 not tryin to pick on you but youre in the wrong IMO.

Technically, there is no 'wrong' here as they're the manager, ergo they create the rules.

Considering you have multiple alt's in various signature campaigns,you should have known the rules better.Just posting here to let people know that you own a Newbie-Legendary active account on the forum,all enrolled in signature campaigns.

How surprising.

[izanagi narukami]

As I'm ever done as campaign manager
I'm marking post count when you're first registered on the campaign and start counting when it has reach let say a week ( for weekly payment )
Let say :

Al Gazali starting post count : 1000 and finished : 1020
By calculating on his recent post history , I'm calculate whenever the post are consider constructive or not