This is hilarious...

[Piper67]

You guys laugh, but in many circumstances, Western Union kicks bitcoin's balls in like an experienced prostitute being manhandled in an alleyway.

The only complaint I have about WU is that the Korean banks are tied in with them (there is no WU branch in Korea that isn't at a bank teller's window), so they really don't like using it for certain amounts, in any certain frequency, etc. One time I went in and they made me wait 3 hours, just to tell me that I wasn't allowed to receive money from that bank branch again until I opened an account, then told me that I might as well just wire it through their bank instead.

Other than that single case in Korea, I think WU is not only better than Bitcoin (no exchange fees, wire fees, loss of value due to market fluctuation, can use credit card, etc) at sending money overseas, why anyone would prefer bitcoin who doesn't already have it is beyond me. Now for people who already hold bitcoins, obviously WU is a step backwards, of course.

Nonsense. I have used Western Union extensively over the years to send money remittances abroad (twice a month for the last 6 years alone) and recently got the whole thing switched to Bitcoin. Not only am I saving money on their insane fees, but if you have to convert currencies, their exchange rates are obscene! Bitcoin and localbitcoins.com has taken care of that.

[Elwar]

I hope the rise of Bitcoin puts WU out of business, those scammers!  $10 fee to send $500 is ridiculous.  And people complain about mining fees!

How much does it cost to take $500 USD, send it to an exchange, buy BTC on the market, send it to someone, have them sell it on the market at a different exchange, wire it to themselves, then take it out of an ATM? $45+? Thought so.

WU are not scammers. WU is basically a centralized version of bitcoin, but where everything is closed up and behind curtains. Take a breath.

$500 -> Dwolla: $.25
$500 Dwolla -> MtGox: $.25
$500 MtGox -> X BTC: $2.75
XBTC -> International recipient XBTC: less than a penny
XBTC -> MtGox $500: $2.75
$500 MtGox -> Dwolla: $.25
Dwolla -> $500: $.25

Total cost: $6.50
ATM fee if withdrawing cash: $2.00 (if not using your bank ATM)
New Total: $8.50 (if not using your own bank ATM)

And that is international transfer, and the recipient can cash out in their own currency and not pay extra for currency exchange. And a bigger bonus...they could just keep it in Bitcoins and spend it.

[mccorvic]

$500 -> Dwolla: $.25
$500 Dwolla -> MtGox: $.25
$500 MtGox -> X BTC: $2.75
XBTC -> International recipient XBTC: less than a penny
XBTC -> MtGox $500: $2.75
$500 MtGox -> Dwolla: $.25
Dwolla -> $500: $.25

Total cost: $6.50
ATM fee if withdrawing cash: $2.00 (if not using your bank ATM)
New Total: $8.50 (if not using your own bank ATM)

And that is international transfer, and the recipient can cash out in their own currency and not pay extra for currency exchange. And a bigger bonus...they could just keep it in Bitcoins and spend it.

And this, my friends, is what we refer to as "Le Royal Smackdown"

[Matthew N. Wright]

I hope the rise of Bitcoin puts WU out of business, those scammers!  $10 fee to send $500 is ridiculous.  And people complain about mining fees!

How much does it cost to take $500 USD, send it to an exchange, buy BTC on the market, send it to someone, have them sell it on the market at a different exchange, wire it to themselves, then take it out of an ATM? $45+? Thought so.

WU are not scammers. WU is basically a centralized version of bitcoin, but where everything is closed up and behind curtains. Take a breath.

$500 -> Dwolla: $.25
$500 Dwolla -> MtGox: $.25
$500 MtGox -> X BTC: $2.75
XBTC -> International recipient XBTC: less than a penny
XBTC -> MtGox $500: $2.75
$500 MtGox -> Dwolla: $.25
Dwolla -> $500: $.25

Total cost: $6.50
ATM fee if withdrawing cash: $2.00 (if not using your bank ATM)
New Total: $8.50 (if not using your own bank ATM)

And that is international transfer, and the recipient can cash out in their own currency and not pay extra for currency exchange. And a bigger bonus...they could just keep it in Bitcoins and spend it.

Cost of lost opportunity while you wait a week for your MtGox ID to be verified?

WU delivers in 30 minutes in most cases. I think I'd prefer paying the extra $1.50 for that.

[Elwar]

I hope the rise of Bitcoin puts WU out of business, those scammers!  $10 fee to send $500 is ridiculous.  And people complain about mining fees!

How much does it cost to take $500 USD, send it to an exchange, buy BTC on the market, send it to someone, have them sell it on the market at a different exchange, wire it to themselves, then take it out of an ATM? $45+? Thought so.

WU are not scammers. WU is basically a centralized version of bitcoin, but where everything is closed up and behind curtains. Take a breath.

$500 -> Dwolla: $.25
$500 Dwolla -> MtGox: $.25
$500 MtGox -> X BTC: $2.75
XBTC -> International recipient XBTC: less than a penny
XBTC -> MtGox $500: $2.75
$500 MtGox -> Dwolla: $.25
Dwolla -> $500: $.25

Total cost: $6.50
ATM fee if withdrawing cash: $2.00 (if not using your bank ATM)
New Total: $8.50 (if not using your own bank ATM)

And that is international transfer, and the recipient can cash out in their own currency and not pay extra for currency exchange. And a bigger bonus...they could just keep it in Bitcoins and spend it.

Cost of lost opportunity while you wait a week for your MtGox ID to be verified?

WU delivers in 30 minutes in most cases. I think I'd prefer paying the extra $1.50 for that.

The international transfers I saw on WU's website showed a 3 day transfer unless you do it all online.

[BeetcoinScummer]

$500 -> Dwolla: $.25
$500 Dwolla -> MtGox: $.25
$500 MtGox -> X BTC: $2.75
XBTC -> International recipient XBTC: less than a penny
XBTC -> MtGox $500: $2.75
$500 MtGox -> Dwolla: $.25
Dwolla -> $500: $.25
Total cost: $6.50
ATM fee if withdrawing cash: $2.00 (if not using your bank ATM)
New Total: $8.50 (if not using your own bank ATM)

And that is international transfer, and the recipient can cash out in their own currency and not pay extra for currency exchange. And a bigger bonus...they could just keep it in Bitcoins and spend it.

This example is contrived and is not really possible as there is no Dwolla outside the US.

If there were is would just be a (Bank -> Dwolla -> Dwolla -> Bank) transfer for $0.75 total.

In many places outside the US it is still difficult to convert BTC back to local currency.

[ColdHardMetal]

I hope the rise of Bitcoin puts WU out of business, those scammers!  $10 fee to send $500 is ridiculous.  And people complain about mining fees!

How much does it cost to take $500 USD, send it to an exchange, buy BTC on the market, send it to someone, have them sell it on the market at a different exchange, wire it to themselves, then take it out of an ATM? $45+? Thought so.

WU are not scammers. WU is basically a centralized version of bitcoin, but where everything is closed up and behind curtains. Take a breath.

$500 -> Dwolla: $.25
$500 Dwolla -> MtGox: $.25
$500 MtGox -> X BTC: $2.75
XBTC -> International recipient XBTC: less than a penny
XBTC -> MtGox $500: $2.75
$500 MtGox -> Dwolla: $.25
Dwolla -> $500: $.25

Total cost: $6.50
ATM fee if withdrawing cash: $2.00 (if not using your bank ATM)
New Total: $8.50 (if not using your own bank ATM)

And that is international transfer, and the recipient can cash out in their own currency and not pay extra for currency exchange. And a bigger bonus...they could just keep it in Bitcoins and spend it.

Isn't Dwolla only usable if you're in the US, making it unsuitable for international transfers?

[J.Socal]

I hope the rise of Bitcoin puts WU out of business, those scammers!  $10 fee to send $500 is ridiculous.  And people complain about mining fees!

How much does it cost to take $500 USD, send it to an exchange, buy BTC on the market, send it to someone, have them sell it on the market at a different exchange, wire it to themselves, then take it out of an ATM? $45+? Thought so.

WU are not scammers. WU is basically a centralized version of bitcoin, but where everything is closed up and behind curtains. Take a breath.

sadly true :/ bitcoins biggest issue is getting them. we need a solution to this.

http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2013/3/25/worlds-first-bitcoin-atm-is-announced-first-location-cyprus.html

[Gabi]

As time passes and more and more people get bitcoins, the problem will solve itself.

[Matthew N. Wright]

As time passes and more and more people get bitcoins, the problem will solve itself.

If that's even true, then so be it. The issue with the above statements however is that it's bitcoin fanboy nonsense. Western Union kicks Bitcoin's ass as a value *transfer* system atm IF you don't already have the bitcoins, AND your receiving party won't be holding bitcoins. No arguing around it.

[Piper67]

I hope the rise of Bitcoin puts WU out of business, those scammers!  $10 fee to send $500 is ridiculous.  And people complain about mining fees!

How much does it cost to take $500 USD, send it to an exchange, buy BTC on the market, send it to someone, have them sell it on the market at a different exchange, wire it to themselves, then take it out of an ATM? $45+? Thought so.

WU are not scammers. WU is basically a centralized version of bitcoin, but where everything is closed up and behind curtains. Take a breath.

$500 -> Dwolla: $.25
$500 Dwolla -> MtGox: $.25
$500 MtGox -> X BTC: $2.75
XBTC -> International recipient XBTC: less than a penny
XBTC -> MtGox $500: $2.75
$500 MtGox -> Dwolla: $.25
Dwolla -> $500: $.25

Total cost: $6.50
ATM fee if withdrawing cash: $2.00 (if not using your bank ATM)
New Total: $8.50 (if not using your own bank ATM)

And that is international transfer, and the recipient can cash out in their own currency and not pay extra for currency exchange. And a bigger bonus...they could just keep it in Bitcoins and spend it.

Cost of lost opportunity while you wait a week for your MtGox ID to be verified?

WU delivers in 30 minutes in most cases. I think I'd prefer paying the extra $1.50 for that.

You've clearly never experienced the WU refusal to pay you because they don't believe you are who you say you are (because someone forgot to put your middle name, or middle initial, exactly as it appears on the ID you're showing to the WU clerk, for example, or because WU needs to call the sender to verify the amount because it's more than what the recipient country's WU accepts without verification). I have... not a pretty picture.

[Nemesis]

WOW you americans are such suckers for this.

$10 for US money transfer is.... expensive.

Forget bitcoins because... frankly its still high due to concentrated exchanges.

But.... paypal? Dwolla?

I mean heck dont you have any other transfer thro your banks?


Unless..... you have dirty cash money( which i believe WU isnt that stupid)

[Matthew N. Wright]

WOW you americans are such suckers for this.

$10 for US money transfer is.... expensive.

Forget bitcoins because... frankly its still high due to concentrated exchanges.

But.... paypal? Dwolla?

I mean heck dont you have any other transfer thro your banks?


Unless..... you have dirty cash money( which i believe WU isnt that stupid)

In general, I'd agree, because even here in Korea you can send wire transfers for free and withdraw from ATMs for free in many cases, no special subscriptions, banking on your mobile phone, computer, by phone call, etc, no extra fees. That said, when you need to get $1000 in 30 minutes, good luck with bitcoin.

[Jobe7]

WOW you americans are such suckers for this.

$10 for US money transfer is.... expensive.

Forget bitcoins because... frankly its still high due to concentrated exchanges.

But.... paypal? Dwolla?

I mean heck dont you have any other transfer thro your banks?


Unless..... you have dirty cash money( which i believe WU isnt that stupid)

In general, I'd agree, because even here in Korea you can send wire transfers for free and withdraw from ATMs for free in many cases, no special subscriptions, banking on your mobile phone, computer, by phone call, etc, no extra fees. That said, when you need to get $1000 in 30 minutes, good luck with bitcoin.

Bitcoin ATM.

You lose.

[foggyb]

As time passes and more and more people get bitcoins, the problem will solve itself.

If that's even true, then so be it. The issue with the above statements however is that it's bitcoin fanboy nonsense. Western Union kicks Bitcoin's ass as a value *transfer* system atm IF you don't already have the bitcoins, AND your receiving party won't be holding bitcoins. No arguing around it.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd

you get to pay the 3% tax (inflation, conservatively), while your receiving party's bitcoins increased many times in value.

Sending $500 with Western Union in Canada costs a lot more than $10. Its $35. I wonder what their excuse is. Canada is big?

[fcmatt]

Married to a filipino girl who uses WU on ocassion matthew is pretty spot on. I totally cringe at the thought trying to work with her family in making an international bitcoin transfer happen so they end up with pesos. It would be a nightmare. WU? Pretty simple and fast. Always a close location for them to goto. Wire money to them prob cost about the same but heck knows if they have a bank account. Ppl forget what it is like to be truly poor.

And the only reason it would be remotely feasible to attempt bitcoin is because i am established.
2-4 days to get usd to dwolla from checking account. Buy bitcoins at gox. Send the btc to a family members bitcoin cell phone app? They have no internet access all the time. They pay as they go which aint often. Then they do god knows what with some possibly odd ppl who could screw them over to get pesos. Days later after they asked for money they get it.

A nightmare.

[alexeft]

Bitcoin is still too small. Once there are local stores that accept you won't have to get in and get out of it. 

[foggyb]

Western Union could probably lower their fees by using bitcoin.

[Fiyasko]

Western union is so 1851.  Bitcoins mind you...

This is an extremely valid point, Bitcoin hasnt even had 5 years to build infastructure, I'd say Bitcoins are doing pretty DAMN good so far

[nazgulnarsil]

Muhahahaaa

PS: TsuyokuNaritai , Lesswrong reader?

Haha, I was wondering the same thing.

Cool, my secret handshake works.

Are there many on bitcointalk from the Bayesian Conspiracy?

I'd have thought there'd be quite a lot, for various reasons... 

I swear it's not a cult mom and dad.