Bitcoin Forum
December 16, 2017, 09:40:31 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Decentralization is a dream  (Read 939 times)
spartak_t
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414


@FAILCommunity


View Profile WWW
August 26, 2016, 05:45:04 PM
 #1

I think that people should think twice, before investing in projects which claims to be decentralized. Why? Because cryptocurrencies needs usage in order to succeed. Bitcoin is the king, but it is controlled by the chinese, same goes (probably) for Litecoin. If you stop for a minute, and think for a while, you'll realize that even the air is centralized. Why would you care if some guy has more bitcoins (or whatever)? It is working! In my humble opinion, "the war" about decentralization will be lost. It may have some success, but it will become something like currently the darknet markets are. Don't buy promises, roadmaps and whitepapers, buy the project's usage!  

1513417231
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513417231

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513417231
Reply with quote  #2

1513417231
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
cowboys
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 81


View Profile
August 26, 2016, 05:50:24 PM
 #2

real life pragmatic usage.  why steem is a success even tho its inflated and centralized
numismatist
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134



View Profile
August 26, 2016, 06:02:02 PM
 #3

The cancer is all about Mining Pools. We don't need no ASIC resistance, we need pool resistance.

Trading sites are another matter. There are approaches of decentralized trading platforms allready on their way.

spartak_t
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414


@FAILCommunity


View Profile WWW
August 26, 2016, 06:07:13 PM
 #4

real life pragmatic usage.  why steem is a success even tho its inflated and centralized

Yes! I'll quote a comment who made me laugh about 10 mins ago. Cheesy

I think we need to talk about getting more than just nerds, speculators and drug dealers to actually use Bitcoin first before we start proclaiming the death of Facebook through gimmicky social media coins.

There are approaches of decentralized trading platforms allready on their way.

Approaches - yes, but real decentralization is currently something imaginary.

Snorek
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1302



View Profile
August 26, 2016, 06:12:03 PM
 #5

The cancer is all about Mining Pools. We don't need no ASIC resistance, we need pool resistance.

Trading sites are another matter. There are approaches of decentralized trading platforms allready on their way.
I am not an expert at mining or technical side of coin development. So Is this even possible to create a coin which will be Mining Pool resistant?
I guess anti ASIC coins can be created. But how exactly can we create anti mining pool coin? Maybe something like this exists already?
electronicash
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784


★YoBit.Net★ 350+ Coins Exchange & Dice


View Profile WWW
August 26, 2016, 06:57:05 PM
 #6

I think that people should think twice, before investing in projects which claims to be decentralised. Why? Because cryptocurrencies needs usage in order to succeed. Bitcoin is the king, but it is controlled by the chinese, same goes (probably) for Litecoin. If you stop for a minute, and think for a while, you'll realize that even the air is centralised. Why would you care if some guy has more bitcoins (or whatever)? It is working! In my humble opinion, "the war" about decentralisation will be lost. It may have some success, but it will become something like currently the darknet markets are. Don't buy promises, roadmaps and whitepapers, buy the project's usage!   



Am i confused with how i understand decentralized? I actually thought decentralized mean none even the dev team don't manage a thing.
Well most project these days are managed by CEO but then it always work and people invest when they hear the word decentralized.

But it doesn't matter to them now whatever decentralized mean, they still profit after dumping the coins the first day of its release.

Jack Liver
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1190



View Profile WWW
August 26, 2016, 08:01:36 PM
 #7

I am not an expert at mining or technical side of coin development. So Is this even possible to create a coin which will be Mining Pool resistant?
I guess anti ASIC coins can be created. But how exactly can we create anti mining pool coin? Maybe something like this exists already?

Decred is mining pool resistant, PoS stakers can vote agaist PoW miners

█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
.
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
.
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
█ █
chennan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1204


View Profile
August 26, 2016, 08:20:29 PM
 #8

I am not an expert at mining or technical side of coin development. So Is this even possible to create a coin which will be Mining Pool resistant?
I guess anti ASIC coins can be created. But how exactly can we create anti mining pool coin? Maybe something like this exists already?

Decred is mining pool resistant, PoS stakers can vote agaist PoW miners

PoS is a scam in every single possible way.  I mean, I hardly agree with every single thing that OP was saying, but you do have to judge the crypto by it's usage and development... not just some hyped up white paper that uses a lot of buzz words to catch your attention, you need to dive a little bit deeper than the buzz words.

I do think some form of ASIC resistance is a good thing.  Centralization of miners would be a lot tougher, but all in all, if you want to use some form of crypto currency that uses a blockchain, then you will always have pools.  Unless you could some how force people to mine only on their daemon and prevent people to connect to other peoples nodes, then maybe... but that comes with a lot more cons thans pros in my mind.

Coinroll - Bitcoin Dice

[CC6vcXtaDfap8ARZc]
B1tUnl0ck3r
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420



View Profile WWW
August 26, 2016, 08:28:03 PM
 #9

The cancer is all about Mining Pools. We don't need no ASIC resistance, we need pool resistance.

Trading sites are another matter. There are approaches of decentralized trading platforms allready on their way.

one the same spirit there is p2p mining... and frankly exchanges failures in series were more damaging than pools. You can redirect your hashrate pretty fast and pools have a good track record...

https://slack.pivx.org/ PIVX https://www.pivx.org PIVX https://forum.pivx.org/ PIVX https://github.com/PIVX-Project
Decentralized governance ✔ Privacy (Zerocoin protocol) ✔ Instant Tx✔ No Instamine ✔ POS✔decreasing inflation ✔
spartak_t
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414


@FAILCommunity


View Profile WWW
August 26, 2016, 09:03:03 PM
 #10

I am not an expert at mining or technical side of coin development. So Is this even possible to create a coin which will be Mining Pool resistant?
I guess anti ASIC coins can be created. But how exactly can we create anti mining pool coin? Maybe something like this exists already?

Decred is mining pool resistant, PoS stakers can vote agaist PoW miners

PoS is a scam in every single possible way.  I mean, I hardly agree with every single thing that OP was saying, but you do have to judge the crypto by it's usage and development... not just some hyped up white paper that uses a lot of buzz words to catch your attention, you need to dive a little bit deeper than the buzz words.

I do think some form of ASIC resistance is a good thing.  Centralization of miners would be a lot tougher, but all in all, if you want to use some form of crypto currency that uses a blockchain, then you will always have pools.  Unless you could some how force people to mine only on their daemon and prevent people to connect to other peoples nodes, then maybe... but that comes with a lot more cons thans pros in my mind.

Why do you think that PoS is a scam? I believe that in some time a better way of distribution would be found. I'd like to compare it with bank interest (when you deposit some money).

And why you disagree? I have been told that banks are sometimes using a 50-year old code. If Bitcoin (for example) becomes a larger threat to the banks (or whatever), they will just enforce laws and create their own.  With that said, I'm not sure if its good cryptocurrencies to have a better adoption, because it could be the beginning of their end (as we know it). Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to be realistic here.

Joint Force
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 764

DAO ↔ DApp


View Profile WWW
August 26, 2016, 10:31:19 PM
 #11

PoS is going to create an abundance of AppCoins. Apps that have their own PoS blockchain with a coin. The coin powers the app. You can already see what success this is having with Steem and Synereo.

European Central Bank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 812



View Profile
August 26, 2016, 11:23:43 PM
 #12

I think the potential for decentralization is the key thing to maintain. sure, bitcoin's effectively centralized, but what keeps people on board is the knowledge that the possibility for the power to be taken away exists. it may not be realistic but it is possible.

a coin that's unequivocally centralized is gonna be a turn off but maybe not quite enough of a turn off than we'd like it to be.

       ▀
   ▄▄▄   ▄▀
   ███ ▄▄▄▄  ██
       ████
    ▄  ▀▀▀▀
▄▄
      ██    ▀▀
██▄█▄▄▄████████
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀███▀▀▀
██████████████████
████▄▀▄▀▄▀███▀▀▀▀▀
████▄▀▄▀▄▀███ ▀
████▄▀▄▀▄▀████████
▀█████████████████
]
,CoinPayments,
█████
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████
█████
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████
█████
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████
squatz1
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518


View Profile
August 27, 2016, 03:37:35 AM
 #13

I feel that people need a mix of centralization and decentralization, as some people need to be able to push the coin to usage. The one thing is that the leader(s) that can ruin / mess with the whole coin.


It's a tough balance to hold but it's possible.

       ▀
   ▄▄▄   ▄▀
   ███ ▄▄▄▄  ██
       ████
    ▄  ▀▀▀▀
▄▄
      ██    ▀▀
██▄█▄▄▄████████
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀███▀▀▀
██████████████████
████▄▀▄▀▄▀███▀▀▀▀▀
████▄▀▄▀▄▀███ ▀
████▄▀▄▀▄▀████████
▀█████████████████
]
CoinPayments
█████
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████
█████
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████
█████
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████ ██
█████
chennan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1204


View Profile
August 27, 2016, 01:15:40 PM
 #14


Why do you think that PoS is a scam? I believe that in some time a better way of distribution would be found. I'd like to compare it with bank interest (when you deposit some money).

And why you disagree? I have been told that banks are sometimes using a 50-year old code. If Bitcoin (for example) becomes a larger threat to the banks (or whatever), they will just enforce laws and create their own.  With that said, I'm not sure if its good cryptocurrencies to have a better adoption, because it could be the beginning of their end (as we know it). Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to be realistic here.

PoS would create a "larger distribution of coins"? Not in the slightest.  First of all, cryptographically it is just unsecure to not have a PoW algorithm.  Someone would have to be insanely determined and have a ton of computing power on his side if that person wanted to do something malicious.

And secondly it wouldn't creat a larger distribution of coins over time.  People would just keep it in their wallets and not use the currency at all and just let it grow over time.  That's not how a currency should work, at least in my mind it shouldn't.

Coinroll - Bitcoin Dice

[CC6vcXtaDfap8ARZc]
spartak_t
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414


@FAILCommunity


View Profile WWW
August 27, 2016, 01:42:59 PM
 #15


Why do you think that PoS is a scam? I believe that in some time a better way of distribution would be found. I'd like to compare it with bank interest (when you deposit some money).

And why you disagree? I have been told that banks are sometimes using a 50-year old code. If Bitcoin (for example) becomes a larger threat to the banks (or whatever), they will just enforce laws and create their own.  With that said, I'm not sure if its good cryptocurrencies to have a better adoption, because it could be the beginning of their end (as we know it). Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to be realistic here.

PoS would create a "larger distribution of coins"? Not in the slightest.  First of all, cryptographically it is just unsecure to not have a PoW algorithm.  Someone would have to be insanely determined and have a ton of computing power on his side if that person wanted to do something malicious.

And secondly it wouldn't creat a larger distribution of coins over time.  People would just keep it in their wallets and not use the currency at all and just let it grow over time.  That's not how a currency should work, at least in my mind it shouldn't.

Not larger, better. There are ways to create a PoS cryptocurrency with fair interest and supply, which can match (for example) to mined bitcoins per year. 

manselr
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 840

ICO appreciator


View Profile
August 27, 2016, 01:52:42 PM
 #16

Bitcoin is not controlled by the chinese. The chinese still have to come into agreements with the devs, the merchants and the node runners.

Also in the future we will have other countries competing against china.
raphma
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350



View Profile
August 27, 2016, 01:55:25 PM
 #17

That's not how a currency should work, at least in my mind it shouldn't.

i agree with this, but it doest mean scam... and again it brings decred as a good example(pow+pos).

B1tUnl0ck3r
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420



View Profile WWW
August 27, 2016, 01:57:49 PM
 #18

Bitcoin is not controlled by the chinese. The chinese still have to come into agreements with the devs, the merchants and the node runners.

Also in the future we will have other countries competing against china.

I am waiting the release of a 100% non chinese competitive miner... I hope it will happen one day. Maybe an Intel, Nvidia, Amd or what ever new brand who takes the challenge and bring a little bit more competition to the chinese manufacturers.

https://slack.pivx.org/ PIVX https://www.pivx.org PIVX https://forum.pivx.org/ PIVX https://github.com/PIVX-Project
Decentralized governance ✔ Privacy (Zerocoin protocol) ✔ Instant Tx✔ No Instamine ✔ POS✔decreasing inflation ✔
spartak_t
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414


@FAILCommunity


View Profile WWW
August 27, 2016, 02:04:56 PM
 #19

Bitcoin is not controlled by the chinese. The chinese still have to come into agreements with the devs, the merchants and the node runners.

Also in the future we will have other countries competing against china.

I am waiting the release of a 100% non chinese competitive miner... I hope it will happen one day. Maybe an Intel, Nvidia, Amd or what ever new brand who takes the challenge and bring a little bit more competition to the chinese manufacturers.

That's like to expect a 5-year old child to take the heavyweight title from the 80's Mike Tyson.

chennan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1204


View Profile
August 27, 2016, 02:08:38 PM
 #20


Not larger, better. There are ways to create a PoS cryptocurrency with fair interest and supply, which can match (for example) to mined bitcoins per year. 

Maybe when you own some and just hold it, but how will people get that supply if they don't purchase some? That's pretty scammy (ponzi'ish) to me I would say... and yet at the same time, not even remotely close security wise compared to a PoW algorithm. It sounds good to you on paper when you worry about collecting interest like a bank, but the whole point of cryptocurrencies is to get away from a "banking" like system and to create a decentralized currency that (theoretically) anyone can get by running nodes and mining, while also making it secure and decentralized.

Now in my mind, ASIC resistance is the way to go... but could be wrong.

Coinroll - Bitcoin Dice

[CC6vcXtaDfap8ARZc]
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!