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Author Topic: Sending funds using HD wallets ?  (Read 399 times)
OmegaStarScream
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August 27, 2016, 01:54:47 PM
 #1

HD wallets are all about privacy and security as you generates a new address each time you want to do a transaction , now let's assume I have both these addresses  (grabbed them randomly from Blockchain.info) :
Code:
161KxR9rfW7XVxiAk7oJ6t7dpryUFXTxvE    - 0.30 [btc]
1HCocZuYDhTc7ioCsaeVzPnkJVxi6mAMT1  - 0.80 [btc]

and they are both generated by an HD wallet ... If I want to send 1.10 BTC , will both addresses appears in the blockchain ? If it's the case then how this will keep me anonymous exactly  Huh It doesn't make much sense

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August 27, 2016, 02:22:15 PM
 #2

HD wallets are all about privacy and security as you generates a new address each time you want to do a transaction , now let's assume I have both these addresses  (grabbed them randomly from Blockchain.info) :
Code:
161KxR9rfW7XVxiAk7oJ6t7dpryUFXTxvE    - 0.30 [btc]
1HCocZuYDhTc7ioCsaeVzPnkJVxi6mAMT1  - 0.80 [btc]

and they are both generated by an HD wallet ... If I want to send 1.10 BTC , will both addresses appears in the blockchain ? If it's the case then how this will keep me anonymous exactly  Huh It doesn't make much sense
if these are the only funds then of course they will appear on the block chain, how else would you transfer it?
about the anonymity question. bitcoin is pseudonym not anonymous. that is just the way it is. using every time a new address adds a little (not much) more security and makes it a bit harder (not much) to find out which addresses belong to you. 

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August 27, 2016, 02:23:42 PM
 #3

HD wallets are all about privacy and security as you generates a new address each time you want to do a transaction , now let's assume I have both these addresses  (grabbed them randomly from Blockchain.info) :
Code:
161KxR9rfW7XVxiAk7oJ6t7dpryUFXTxvE    - 0.30 [btc]
1HCocZuYDhTc7ioCsaeVzPnkJVxi6mAMT1  - 0.80 [btc]

and they are both generated by an HD wallet ... If I want to send 1.10 BTC , will both addresses appears in the blockchain ? If it's the case then how this will keep me anonymous exactly  Huh It doesn't make much sense

Yes, both will appear in the blockchain. HD wallets doesn't make your addresses invisible to others.

As far as I can see, all that thing about HD wallet have large privacy and security advantage are over-exaggerated. The only thing to note about HD wallet is that all the address are derived from a single seed phrase, all other works the same way as most of the well known wallets that creates new addresses whenever they're needed (for sending changes).

Only advantages I can think of is because all addresses comes from one seed, losing a single private key (because of faulty client perhaps) would be pretty much impossible. And that you don't have to create backups if you have the seed (tho I still do it).

                                                                       
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August 27, 2016, 03:54:10 PM
 #4

HD wallets doesn't make anyone invisible in the blockchain and they always show the transactions in the blockchain ledger. What you can do to avoid exposing all of your addresses is untick the option use chance addresses or click on a single address and click SEND FROM, this way only 1 of your many addresses will be visible and can be tied to you. HD wallets do really a good job at keeping you almost anonymous because for example Multibit HD uses always a new address.
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August 27, 2016, 04:13:09 PM
 #5

HD wallets are all about privacy and security as you generates a new address each time you want to do a transaction , now let's assume I have both these addresses  (grabbed them randomly from Blockchain.info) :
Code:
161KxR9rfW7XVxiAk7oJ6t7dpryUFXTxvE    - 0.30 [btc]
1HCocZuYDhTc7ioCsaeVzPnkJVxi6mAMT1  - 0.80 [btc]

and they are both generated by an HD wallet ... If I want to send 1.10 BTC , will both addresses appears in the blockchain ? If it's the case then how this will keep me anonymous exactly  Huh It doesn't make much sense
if these are the only funds then of course they will appear on the block chain, how else would you transfer it?
about the anonymity question. bitcoin is pseudonym not anonymous. that is just the way it is. using every time a new address adds a little (not much) more security and makes it a bit harder (not much) to find out which addresses belong to you. 


HD wallets are all about privacy and security as you generates a new address each time you want to do a transaction , now let's assume I have both these addresses  (grabbed them randomly from Blockchain.info) :
Code:
161KxR9rfW7XVxiAk7oJ6t7dpryUFXTxvE    - 0.30 [btc]
1HCocZuYDhTc7ioCsaeVzPnkJVxi6mAMT1  - 0.80 [btc]

and they are both generated by an HD wallet ... If I want to send 1.10 BTC , will both addresses appears in the blockchain ? If it's the case then how this will keep me anonymous exactly  Huh It doesn't make much sense

Yes, both will appear in the blockchain. HD wallets doesn't make your addresses invisible to others.

As far as I can see, all that thing about HD wallet have large privacy and security advantage are over-exaggerated. The only thing to note about HD wallet is that all the address are derived from a single seed phrase, all other works the same way as most of the well known wallets that creates new addresses whenever they're needed (for sending changes).

Only advantages I can think of is because all addresses comes from one seed, losing a single private key (because of faulty client perhaps) would be pretty much impossible. And that you don't have to create backups if you have the seed (tho I still do it).

How to prevent this from happening then? I'm assuming that wallets check first If you have enough funds to one address, If not then use multiples addresses? If it's the case then It would be possible to send like 0.30BTC then 0.80BTC in two different parts, that way they won't show up both on the blockchain?

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August 27, 2016, 05:03:48 PM
 #6

this is why people use mixers.

EG you put in 0.3btc into a mixer and then get out 0.1 each to 3 addresses where the funds originated from else where and then you do the same with the 0.8btc to have 8 addresses of 0.1btc from elsewhere (random amounts but im saying 0.1 for easy understanding)

although people will see that 0.3 has moved and later the 0.8 has moved. they cannot categorically link 0.3 to the 0.8btc because you treated them as separate transactions

also the amounts you now hold on 11 addresses came from the mixer meaning its not the same coin as before. so its less easy to link the 11x0.1 to you due to lack of taint

now here is the interesting part.
people can still roughly work out when a mixer is used when they see funds move in and get split up in the next block,(paying others your funds) rather than people holding on for days or weeks(normal trends of not mixing).
after all people dont want to trust a mixer to hold funds long term.
they prefer the quick in and out. so mixers are not 100% analysis proof. but do make it harder to know who is who

this then makes it possible to work out that your funds are part of maybe half a dozen other peoples transactions in the next block.. so its still not 100% anonymous. they can rule out a few people by knowing your not accepting your previous taint. so any transactions that moved in previous block and are moving again in the next block with your taint is not you. and now its just a case of watching the other transactions that moved in and out quickly.

this is why the next generation of mixers will use lightning network. where people can spend and move funds numerous times and by they time it settles onchain in a few days, weeks. most people have paid for the goods and services and the funds have passed through many peoples hands not revealing anything about what happened in the middle

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August 27, 2016, 05:42:04 PM
 #7

Hd wallets are just a extra layer of security  Tongue they did not promissed you that they will protect your identity. Its just they will only help you to be little less secure by giving you new addresses everytime you made a transaction

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August 27, 2016, 06:06:48 PM
 #8

I never heard that it can not show blockchain if you transfer some funds in one address .
Why don't you use bitmixer instead of using hd wallet for anonymous.. but if you discover how to hide it in block chain.. 
i am also want to learn it because i dont need to use bitmixer to be anonymous..


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August 27, 2016, 06:31:18 PM
 #9

HD wallets are all about privacy and security as you generates a new address each time you want to do a transaction , now let's assume I have both these addresses  (grabbed them randomly from Blockchain.info) :
Code:
161KxR9rfW7XVxiAk7oJ6t7dpryUFXTxvE    - 0.30 [btc]
1HCocZuYDhTc7ioCsaeVzPnkJVxi6mAMT1  - 0.80 [btc]

and they are both generated by an HD wallet ... If I want to send 1.10 BTC , will both addresses appears in the blockchain ? If it's the case then how this will keep me anonymous exactly  Huh It doesn't make much sense

Yes, using a new address does not guarantee anonymity, but it does increase privacy and security. If you use a new address every time, then ...

  • a person that knows one of your addresses can see only some of your transactions. They cannot see all of your transactions.
  • you are protected from the possibility of a k value attack.

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August 27, 2016, 11:38:50 PM
 #10

How to prevent this from happening then? I'm assuming that wallets check first If you have enough funds to one address, If not then use multiples addresses? If it's the case then It would be possible to send like 0.30BTC then 0.80BTC in two different parts, that way they won't show up both on the blockchain?

Ideally, that would be the case. But these settings may vary depending on what wallet you're using. In electrum, you can choose to send from a specific address and choose whether to emphasize on priority or privacy when sending from multiple addresses. Multibit always choose inputs by age (priority). No idea what blockchain.info and other wallets are using.

If you can't choose the from address and can't/don't know/not willing to extract the private keys to import them to other wallet to send the bitcoins separately, you'll have to use mixers every time you receive a payment (not mixing one payment would be alright) if you don't want to worry about payments being linked to one another, a tedious work if you have like 10 unmixed inputs already.

                                                                       
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JeffBrad12
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August 28, 2016, 02:06:25 AM
 #11

this is why people use mixers.

EG you put in 0.3btc into a mixer and then get out 0.1 each to 3 addresses where the funds originated from else where and then you do the same with the 0.8btc to have 8 addresses of 0.1btc from elsewhere (random amounts but im saying 0.1 for easy understanding)

although people will see that 0.3 has moved and later the 0.8 has moved. they cannot categorically link 0.3 to the 0.8btc because you treated them as separate transactions

also the amounts you now hold on 11 addresses came from the mixer meaning its not the same coin as before. so its less easy to link the 11x0.1 to you due to lack of taint


Its means using mixers is reduced a lot of percentages for another person is wanna link my bitcoin?really useful for me thank for that.

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