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Author Topic: bitcoin instead of 401k?  (Read 3833 times)
tonto (OP)
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March 28, 2013, 01:17:30 PM
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So my wife and I argued last night, because I want to try a year of using whatever I would put into a 401k to buy bitcoins instead. 
 
After much debate, she agreed, but do y'all think I'm stupid for doing so?  Now obviously there are pros/cons to both.  I think bitcoin still has a lot of potential.  I was putting 4% into 401k, and my employer matched 50$ of that (for a total of 6% going into 401k).  So I'll lose 2%, and it'll be after taxes.
 
On the other hand, if bitcoins grow like they have over the past year, I'd be retarded not to do it.  *sigh*
 
How many of you have moved away from standard investments into bitcoin?   Or I could drop my allocation some (maybe 3%) and then put 1% into bitcoins?  MOney is tight at the moment, so I can't add extra... I'm just going to use what already is being taken out.
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justusranvier
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March 28, 2013, 01:19:49 PM
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Your 401k will be worthless after it's nationalized, so almost anything would be a better investment.
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March 28, 2013, 01:20:47 PM
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I dont have any real advise here but I am interested in what others may say. I have thought about doing the same thing with my 401k. One plus for me is Im young, so if I lose it all I have time to rebuild.

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March 28, 2013, 04:20:33 PM
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It all comes down to weather you believe in what bitcoin is and what it stands for.

If you do then by all means start investing whatever you feel comfortable in it.

Iv been mining for almost 2 years now so my investments have compounded and im reinvesting in mining equipment.

I would love to buy bitcoin inside of a self directed roth IRA!!!


tonto (OP)
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March 28, 2013, 04:47:35 PM
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Yeah my coworker and I were discussing how awesome it would be if we could allocate part of our 401k into bitcoins.  More diversification. Smiley
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March 28, 2013, 05:35:32 PM
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Don't really give advice all I can say is that I'm all in on bitcoin. Put what little I had in bitcoin earlier this year and looking to do more later. But I guess it depends on where you are in life.
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March 28, 2013, 05:38:35 PM
 #7

If your employer contributes, that's free money.  6% is kinda low in any case.

You might want to consider halving your contributions and putting the other half into bitcoins and plan to do it for 2 years instead of one (reconsider after the first year). Though remember, long term, Bitcoin isn't an investment (which isn't to say that it currently isn't a good long-term investment). Sooner or later, all it will produce in terms of increasing value is from mild deflation.

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March 28, 2013, 05:47:34 PM
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I wouldn't walk away from a 50% match. Look at your expenses and carve out $100/mo. to put into bitcoins. Or sell $100/mo of extra stuff on craigslist and invest that money.

Last fall I sold 3 5830's to local gamer kids and traded them for approx. 6 BTC each. These days I'm sure glad I did! Get creative and you'll find the money you need.
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March 28, 2013, 07:57:05 PM
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Yes, a definitely yes. The thought that you even thought about redirecting your retirement funds into Bitcoins tells me that you are a risk-loving individual who sees that your 5% to 10% investment return in your 401k doesn't compare to the more then 100% return by purchasing Bitcoins.  So it doesn't take an intelligent person to see that purchasing Bidcoins over 401K is the right choice. But how do I know it's going to earn more than 100%? Because it's my gut feeling. Well that's a real shitty reason to or not to invest your retirement money, but that is the only reason that I have found that people are thinking that this is a bubble. No facts, figures or anything to explain why it is a bubble.  I don't listen to my gut feeling, I do my due diligence. I've created charts, spreadsheets, read every news story in the last 2 months that mention bitcoins and even dived into the laws that could govern the Bitcoin industry. I have the advantage of being retired (I have the time required to do this) and my experience as a financial analyst (where the people that tell your financial adviser what to buy) allows me to do my due diligence.  After watching and learning about the Bitcoin industry for 2 months I concluded that Bitcoins are very under-appreciated and the risk/reward model is nothing that I have even seen. By this I mean that the risk of loosing money (that it turns out to be a bubble) doesn't even come close to comparing to the profit potential. An analogy would be if you bet $100 that you can make a layup and your bookie gave you odds of 10,000 to 1 against. There is a chance that you miss but the profit potential is too much not to go for it.  As for me, and I'm only disclosing this because we are talking about retirement money, I decided to take half of my retirement funds and purchase Bitcoins. I invested most of it last Thursday and Friday and already I have a + 40% unrealized gain as of today.

If you are fully vested, and your employers offers it, you may want to consider taking a loan from your 401k. When you take a loan from your 401K you pay the interest to yourself. The 401K company sells your shares out of the fund and they hold on to it in a separate account. Since the money is still yours, the 401K company offers to lend you your own money for interest (let's say 8%).  Since you are borrowing money from yourself, you get the interest income generated by your loan.  If your 401K investment are returning 5%, it would make sense to borrow it and pay yourself 8% interest. Something else to consider is diminishing purchasing power.  If you invested $1,000 on January 1 to purchase Bitcoins, you would of purchase around 75.16 BTC. The same amount a month later and you would of purchased 48.78 BTC and on March 1, it is reduced to 28.98 BTC. April 1, $1000 is going to buy you less than 10 BTC and by May 1st I'm guessing that you will be lucky to buy 5 BTC for a $1,000.  So what I'm saying is that your investment of $150 a month will make you lots of money, but not as much as you would have if you invested $1,800 ($150 * 12 months).


I hope that helps.

P.S. Your company's 33% match is only for the first year and then you are back to 5% to 10% returns, whereas your purchase of Bitcoins will keep appreciating for years to come.


 
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March 28, 2013, 08:56:31 PM
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My wife and I just cashed out her 401 this Tuesday to put into Bitcoin. We are still waiting for the check to come, and I keep getting sick to my stomach when I wake up in the morning and see where they have gone over the night. It wasn't that much ($7,200 after all penalties, and taxes) and we plan to leave it in for the long haul regardless if it crashes or not. Our thought was in 30 years from now when we are retirement age, who knows if the USD will even still exist, and plus with the possibility of nationalization, it was an easy decision. My confidence in Bitcoin also made the decision pretty easy too. Wink
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March 28, 2013, 09:10:30 PM
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Your 401k will be worthless after it's nationalized, so almost anything would be a better investment.

I highly doubt the US government will nationalize 401ks. This would definitely lead to a revolution kind of thing. I wish we had 401ks in my country, instead we have mandatory pension funds which are basically Ponzi schemes in which I try to deposit as little as possible.

To the OP. You asked for opinions: I would not go ahead with your plan and deposit into your 401k instead and buy some nice stocks. Next to this set aside a little money each month (the amount depends on what you can spare) and buy Bitcoins. Dollar cost averaging is the best way to buy into something of which it is impossible to determine the value with any degree of accuracy. Good luck Smiley
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March 28, 2013, 09:16:21 PM
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Just remember that Bitcoin is EXPERIMENTAL. I'm bullish on it but I wouldn't put my 'nads in a vice dependent on its success. It still has several big tests to endure.

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March 28, 2013, 09:45:35 PM
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Wait let me get this straight.  You cashed out your 401K as in you rolled it into another account like MtGox (I doubt they even have that) or you cashed out completely?
If you did that you'll pay a large penalty in addition to paying the deferred taxes.


Nah, just what he is going to save this year.
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March 28, 2013, 09:57:41 PM
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Wait let me get this straight.  You cashed out your 401K as in you rolled it into another account like MtGox (I doubt they even have that) or you cashed out completely?
If you did that you'll pay a large penalty in addition to paying the deferred taxes.


Yes, I cashed out of my retirement plan (not my 401K). You can't invest in Bitcoins using your 401K.  I don't have to pay a penalty, I'm retired, but they did have to hold on to 20% for taxes, but I will get most of that back next year.
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March 28, 2013, 10:06:31 PM
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My wife and I just cashed out her 401 this Tuesday to put into Bitcoin. We are still waiting for the check to come, and I keep getting sick to my stomach when I wake up in the morning and see where they have gone over the night. It wasn't that much ($7,200 after all penalties, and taxes) and we plan to leave it in for the long haul regardless if it crashes or not. Our thought was in 30 years from now when we are retirement age, who knows if the USD will even still exist, and plus with the possibility of nationalization, it was an easy decision. My confidence in Bitcoin also made the decision pretty easy too. Wink

Wow, this is dangerous, if many people are going to do this, they will find out that there are not enough money to be taken out, it will bankrupt the government  Wink

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March 29, 2013, 12:37:11 AM
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depending how old you are, you'll never see your 401k money anyway... and if you it will be worthless after inflation or a currency collapse, or if the government didnt just straight up steal it or force most of it to be in federal notes "for your protection"

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March 29, 2013, 04:09:46 AM
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depending how old you are, you'll never see your 401k money anyway... and if you it will be worthless after inflation or a currency collapse, or if the government didnt just straight up steal it or force most of it to be in federal notes "for your protection"

This is exactly 1000% why we did it! I just know in 30 years it would be worth nothing one way or another, and I believe in Bitcoin so strongly that I have absolutely no problem taking the penalty to move it to Bitcoin!
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March 29, 2013, 04:26:15 AM
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I actually spoke with a few different companies about the possibility of setting up a self-directed IRA (and accompanying LLC) to buy Bitcoin. It's possible, though you'll have to pay fees. I'm interested in the idea as a safety option against the dollar collapsing. Our IRA stuff is in mutual funds right now, but if we see strong indications that the stock market is going to tank, it would be nice to move all that over to a Bitcoin IRA. When I hear back from more of the companies I've been asking about this, I'll put together a post here in the forums.

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March 29, 2013, 04:42:08 AM
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Get on the right side of history.  And read the writing on the wall.

If Cyprus didn't wake the world up I don't now what will.

Your 401k isn't safe.  It isn't in your control.

While Bitcoin may be an uncertain gamble, one that is certain is they will go after 401k's.  It's only a matter of time.

No nation can service a growing 16.4T debt with a declining GDP greater then 1:1 debt to GDP..  It's only a matter of time before they come after pensions and IRAs.

I'd take my chances with Bitcoin over trusting the governemnt any day.
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March 29, 2013, 10:34:38 AM
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I'm as strong a Bitcoin enthusiast as any here and I hold a nice portion of BTC.

I agree that a conventional pension in pretty much any country is a loosing bet.

However if I was 55-70 at this point I would not put all my money in BTC. Maybe 10-50% then spread the rest between physical silver, gold and maybe some investments/stocks I knew really really well.

I'm 23 I can rebuild, but if you're 60 maybe show a little caution.

Of cause if your pension is only 7000$ you are kinda screwed whatever you do with it so, that amount you might as well dump 100% in BTC...

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