Bitcoin: The Digital Kill Switch

[Come-from-Beyond]

It is all over the internet now, as promised.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Bitcoin%3A+The+Digital+Kill+Switch

Interesting... Will this have an influence on Bitcoin price?..

[Eylrid]

First mover advantage isn't everything. Google was late to search. Facebook was late to social networking. If a system has problems a better system can take over. If bitcoin falls under the control of the elite anarchists will create something new.

[AnonyMint]

Jeez, another noob comes in, identifies a fatal weakness of Bitcoin or two. Ohhh geez there is 51% attack. Ohh anonymity is actually just pseudonimity. Ohh if everyone plays Satoshi Dice all day long blockchain is doomed... Let's now all create new Bitcoin with the only difference I care about being me present as an "early adopter" and savior of mankind.

It is all so old and boring...  "kill switch" WTF?


P.S. I'd love to see them doing 51% attack when every electric heating device on the planet has Bitcoin ASICs as heating element.

Thanks for coming over here after I PM'ed you asking for your critique. You see I welcome it.

Unfortunately, I don't think you read the thread, because then you would understand that I am not describing a potential "51+% attack".

Please reply once you've properly absorbed the thread and understand the issue as well as the others do, who now understand and agree.

Btw, the main reason I PM'ed you is I what to be sure that the hard-core Bitcoiners are too cocky (and unwilling to read) to recognize and implement the fix. Because I want to make sure I won't waste my time coding a replacement for Bitcoin.

I had been studying your postings going back to 2011. So I expected you to do exactly what you do. Thanks.

[herzmeister]

Turns out "Proof of disk space" isn't so feasible with the current state of technology.

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/8798/what-would-be-the-technical-and-wider-implications-of-a-cryptocurrency-that-us

[AnonyMint]

Turns out "Proof of disk space" isn't so feasible with the current state of technology.

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/8798/what-would-be-the-technical-and-wider-implications-of-a-cryptocurrency-that-us

I am glad to see that Colin Dean's one criticism shows that he doesn't understand that read/writes will be incredibly infrequent. And the rest of what he writes is positive.

I should stop teaching how my system is going to work, before I implement it.

I see they (bitcoin.stackexchange.com) block my account for 4 more days of "cool down", so I can't reply there (and I won't). Hey I am warming up and gaining momentum, not cooling down.

[AnonyMint]

David Morgan has published:

http://www.silver-investor.com/blog/silver-market-update/bitcoin-the-digital-kill-switch/

It just so happens that I have been a disk drive firmware engineer for the last 25+ years.  The first drive I worked on was the 40 megabyte 3.5 inch drive for Miniscribe in 1987, one of the very first PATA interface drives.  I am currently working on the next generation SMR drive for Hitachi - should come in at about 10 terabytes.  When I started we would double the capacity and reduce the cost of a rotating media disk drive about every 6-9 months, now it takes years.  It is becoming harder and harder to get more capacity out of a disk drive due to the physics involved.

SSD are also getting closer to their physical limits.  The current smallest node flash devices are using about 8 +/- 2 electrons per bit so you can see that has its obvious limits.

If I get a chance I will take a look at the proposal but in the mean time I am available to answer any disk drive specific questions that may come up.

The beauty of open source. Thank you.

[Jimpyone]

Please don't tell me that bitcoiners are Illuminati tinfoil hat reptile alien nut jobs?? I was just starting to get my hopes up... is this rant about a global elite banning trade (which is basically the same idea as the Antichrist in the book fo Revelation) a parody?

[herzmeister]

I think OP spent a bit too much time on armageddonconspiracy.co.uk 

[AnonyMint]

> great article.  But I think you miss a point about the economic incentive
> to process transactions.
>
> Even if real transaction costs go to 0, there is an even greater economic
> incentive for users who hold a good amount of value in Bitcoins (or
> litecoins) to run a miner so as to contribute to the total processing
> power
> to ensure that concentration of processing power does not occur.

Socialism.

Economics doesn't work that way.

No one gains prosperity by going bankrupt.

The masses will want their free transaction processing.

The cartel can continue to ramp up the processing power provided for free (from the profits they extract from the transfer price mechanism), those few altruistic miners will find their % of processing power reduces continually if they don't have funding to perpetually add hardware.

Please don't tell me that bitcoiners are Illuminati tinfoil hat reptile alien nut jobs?? I was just starting to get my hopes up... is this rant about a global elite banning trade (which is basically the same idea as the Antichrist in the book fo Revelation) a parody?

Who said anything about power elite banning all trade? That is not the allegation. Try reading the entire thread and learn the meaning of the phrase "transfer pricing".

I guess you failed to study history, and don't remember how John D. Rockefeller cartelized oil and railroads with Standard Oil.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and wonder why you get the same result. Sigh.

So Standard Oil didn't exist and any one who says he did is a "tinfoil hat reptile alien nut job".

Does your propaganda accomplish anything but destroy the process of open source improvement which is supposed to be based in rational facts, not in nonsense posts like yours?

I think OP spent a bit too much time on armageddonconspiracy.co.uk  

You have no logic to retort the numerous facts discussed in this thread, so you resort to propaganda. As expected. Sad.

If you don't respect open source, then continue with that strategy of polluting this thread without factual discussion. If you respect open source, and want to be respected as helping make a better world, please don't do that. Consider the benefit to yourself and the respect you will gain from readers, if elevate yourself from the level of caveman tactics.

If you have a genuine factual and technical argument, I want to hear it. I want this to be peer reviewed. But peer review versus mudslinging represent two levels of evolution of homo sapiens. Elevate yourself. This isn't mud wrestling.

[AnonyMint]

I am thinking about if it is possible to make faster transactions:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=162781.msg1712280#msg1712280

[AnonyMint]

I am thinking about if it is possible to improve anonymity.

One thought is that if it is not already done, then transactions should be flowed between peers encrypted if this doesn't ruin performance, so that traffic analysis can't be used to determine which IP (peer) transactions originate from. MUTE is an inspiration.

I am also contemplating whether it is possible to virtualize addresses.

[AnonyMint]

> So u basically are defeating your own point.

No I am not. I am referring to a generalization of the concept of "transfer pricing", where the cartels that own the government are able to earn profits from monopolization via various means of extracting revenue from everyone but themselves.

> Why would this cartel invest in processing power if investment in
> processing power at 0 transaction cost drives the investor toward
> bankruptcy.

Because it drives everyone else to bankruptcy and not them.

>  Who is this cartel and are they breaking federal antitrust
> laws through their collusion?

Here is something for your enlightenment about who owns the government:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/03/31/so-what-part-of-ny-courts-r-corrupt-you-did-not-understand/
 

> If the cartel is somehow legal and making money and there is a free market
> why would others not shift  to eat away at the profit which is not
> protected by govt monopoly?

Who said I expected a free market? I am talking about a cartel, a monopoly, and fascism.

We have that now, you just haven't yet seen the full effects coming down the road:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4867&cpage=1#comment-397431

(read the above linked comment and all the way to the end of the page to get all the detailed analysis)

> Anyone who has average or above average holdings should make a rational
> decision to support the system unless they want to see their currency
> debased, or they switch to a new system and the cartels investment goes to
> waste.

Google for "Tragedy of the Commons". You don't understand economics.

[AnonyMint]

The logic that was used in the past to not do the correct thing for Bitcoin was called "inflatacoin":

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=10666.40

Is gold "inflatacoin"? Gold's money supply increases forever (and there is probably more in outer space).

[AnonyMint]

We have a possible name for this new coin.

DURACOIN

Any opinions?

[Come-from-Beyond]

We have a possible name for this new coin.

DURACOIN

Any opinions?

The Russians won't support this coins. In Russian "DURA" sounds as "female fool".

[GCInc.]

Hey maybe you could start a new thread for your coin project?

We have a possible name for this new coin.

DURACOIN

Any opinions?

You will need a name that is at least as effective and brandable as BITCOIN.

Duracoin Does not sound sufficiently brandable for the following reasons:

1.) The "Dura" part is not clear enough for its meaning. Does it mean durable? Whole words are definitely more hooking than concatenations or partial words.

2.) Coin is an imitation of bitcoin, which could be seen as plagiarism and hinder progress. Sufficiently intelligent people, who are going to be a major factor in facilitating adoption, do not advocate plagiarism (diverting from the bitcoin technical model is not seen as plagiarism, whereas copying the name "coin" for unit of currency probably would).

For a p2p currency to become successful you need to have a name that:

a.) includes reference to money. There are not many of these. Coin is obvious, note is another. Dollar could do, if it didn't have so negative connotations already and especially after it goes down the drain. Money is probably too flat and long. Mark could be viable, but I don't know if its meaning is known enough outside Europe.

b.) is easy pronounce and conceptualize.

c.) strikes home the essence of the currency. Bitcoin is very good, although it sounded naive at first. You'll have hard time topping that.

[manfred]

You are expecting the less likely threat, because the power elite don't shutdown what is popular, they find a way to own it.

The bigger threat is the government will not shut it down, but rather embrace, help it grow, and control it so they can turn off your ability to eat individually if they don't like you:

Bitcoin: The Digital Kill Switch

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160612.0

Bitcoin is diabolical, but only an expert can see it.

The powers to be already own it. Day one entity Satoshi owned more than 50% and never relinquished power since.

If anyone would try to establish a "one world currency" the traditional way he would face a revolt and people fighting toe to nail. Yet coming in in a a*se about way from behind it becomes "cool" and people trolling over each other to have a "one world currency".!

[mobodick]

Bitcoin: The Digital Kill Switch
by Shelby H. Moore III

BLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLAB LA

LOOL!
Feeding FUD to the newbies?

Who the hell is this by Shelby H. Moore III anyway?
He seems to be very prolific at selective reasoning.

[mobodick]

Simpleton masses? Who are you, Dr. Evil?

The cartel decides to blacklist Wal-Mart because they won't play ball. John Q. Simpleton goes to walmart.com to buy a new NASCAR shirt and some Slim Jims. Wal-Mart generates a never-before-used public address for John to send in his payment. How is the cartel going to identify it as a Wal-Mart address?

Obviously you fail to understand the technical problem. The cartel will control all the processing. John won't be able to get his transaction to go through.

That would be the perfect opportunity for John to switch currency...
I think you are highly underestimating the emergent properties of something like bitcoin.
If the cartel wants to process for free they will need to provide the computational power.
If they decide not to process some stuff then someone else will make this processing power available.
The end result will be that there will be an ecosystem of currencies and noone will have control over the whole.
The cartell will need to evaluate their desire to control a coin against the losses of customers rejecting it for that reason.
It is a form of democratisation of currency.

If a cartell gains this kind of power and abuses it even once it can be proven through the block chains and at that very moment the whole coin cannot be trusted anymore. Effectively the cartel would commit suicide.
Momentum or not, investors will pull back and the coin the cartell has control over will crash pretty hard.

Why would any cartel want to do that and how would they retain the value of a coin that includes proof of them tampering with it?

[mobodick]

You have not read this thread. We already discussed this. I will not re-explain it again (not because I am angry but just because it becomes noisy if I say the same thing over and over), and I am tiring of going back to find the posts for readers (I have limited time). Please just read the entire thread, then you will get it.

In short, the monopolist can use transfer pricing to subsidize and win. Bitcoin would not be destroyed, it would be their main tool for control and taking all the profits from mankind.

I'm wondering why you started this pretty technical bitcoin thread right in the newbie section in the first place.
You must have understood that most people reading this will have very little knowledge about how bitcoin actually functions and that most people reading this will not have enough information to understand the implications.
Seems to me you seek soft souls to deposit your fairytales.