Expect ransomware arrests soon, says bitcoin tracking firm Chainalysis

[Snorek]

This design for a payment network is reckless and I wonder for somebody buying and selling actual goods for Bitcoin how many troubles they encounter over a year and how many times they worry over who is paying them Bitcoin and where it comes from.

So what is your solution here? Instead of bitcoin we should switch to monero or something? Because Monero while anonymous is not really breaking the market charts.
Plus, it is not accepted by any mainstream serious service. If we want cryptocurrency to be accepted as legal tender, we unfortunately must be doing it under some sort of law.
 

[Azael]

Innocent until proven guilty. Even if you can prove the funds came from a particular address, you would have to prove intent, and ownership of the addresses in question.

Right. What if you bought X Bitcoins from Y with let's say Litecoin and you find out from the police a while later they came from an adress that was from a theft?

And let's say the message history etc has been removed since. Then they can prove it came from a particular address and coming up with some 'intent' sounds easy you wanted some money right? And you'd proven ownership of the 2nd address in question by making let's say USD withdrawals from Bitstamp.

Now the only thing missing it that you unlock the sender of the Bitcoins address which you can't but if you could why would you do that? If you can then you're guilty.

I think a case could be made with just this information and digging up some messages on your computer to build some form of intent for this.

[dinofelis]

Plus, it is not accepted by any mainstream serious service. If we want cryptocurrency to be accepted as legal tender, we unfortunately must be doing it under some sort of law.

... and then it has lost its purpose, and you better use fiat.  Much easier, less hassle, less mining.

[Azael]

This design for a payment network is reckless and I wonder for somebody buying and selling actual goods for Bitcoin how many troubles they encounter over a year and how many times they worry over who is paying them Bitcoin and where it comes from.

So what is your solution here? Instead of bitcoin we should switch to monero or something? Because Monero while anonymous is not really breaking the market charts.
Plus, it is not accepted by any mainstream serious service. If we want cryptocurrency to be accepted as legal tender, we unfortunately must be doing it under some sort of law.
 

For payments Monero is better than Bitcoin in current form Bitcoin can of course change but I don't see that change happening. I have since long considered Bitcoin more like digital gold than currency anyway.

Give it some time Monero is starting out the same way Bitcoin did. Physical stores usually accept cash so why can't compliant e-commerce accept e-cash?

[bbc.reporter]

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/450302807/Expect-ransomware-arrests-soon-says-bitcoin-tracking-firm-Chainalysis

What are your thoughts on this? When you trade Bitcoin with someone you might be getting tainted coins that put you in danger.

You are putting too much thought in the issue. "Tainted coins" and "fungibility" are an overused concept and some people think it that it will affect the "value" of their bitcoins.

People put too little thought into this. Forget the block size debate if you don't even have a payment network where buyer and seller are safe.

It's not about the value of my Bitcoins I have since long considered them more like digital gold than currency anyway.

Take this example you buy some Bitcoins from X and the next thing you know the police wants to know where you got them who you bought it from who you are etc etc they want to dig into you like really waste your time and well whatever it is they do. Perhaps they make you give up the seller to prove your innocence who turns out to be some madman?

Now maybe this doesn't concern you but tell me for somebody wanting to use Bitcoin as a currency like actually buying goods outside DNMs why would you?
This design for a payment network is reckless and I wonder for somebody buying and selling actual goods for Bitcoin how many troubles they encounter over a year and how many times they worry over who is paying them Bitcoin and where it comes from.

Do you really think that the authorities will act in such a way without it becoming an issue too? That would be reckless on their part also. In what was the concept of protect and serve in the police system will now be thrown out the window. But how can you call this design as reckless? A public ledger made for all to see your transactions is not a reckless design. In fact it should be used by all the governments around the world so that its citizens will be aware where all their taxes are going. Transparency in bitcoin's design is not reckless. But the people enforcing the law will be.

[Azael]

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/450302807/Expect-ransomware-arrests-soon-says-bitcoin-tracking-firm-Chainalysis

What are your thoughts on this? When you trade Bitcoin with someone you might be getting tainted coins that put you in danger.

You are putting too much thought in the issue. "Tainted coins" and "fungibility" are an overused concept and some people think it that it will affect the "value" of their bitcoins.

People put too little thought into this. Forget the block size debate if you don't even have a payment network where buyer and seller are safe.

It's not about the value of my Bitcoins I have since long considered them more like digital gold than currency anyway.

Take this example you buy some Bitcoins from X and the next thing you know the police wants to know where you got them who you bought it from who you are etc etc they want to dig into you like really waste your time and well whatever it is they do. Perhaps they make you give up the seller to prove your innocence who turns out to be some madman?

Now maybe this doesn't concern you but tell me for somebody wanting to use Bitcoin as a currency like actually buying goods outside DNMs why would you?
This design for a payment network is reckless and I wonder for somebody buying and selling actual goods for Bitcoin how many troubles they encounter over a year and how many times they worry over who is paying them Bitcoin and where it comes from.

Do you really think that the authorities will act in such a way without it becoming an issue too? That would be reckless on their part also. In what was the concept of protect and serve in the police system will now be thrown out the window. But how can you call this design as reckless? A public ledger made for all to see your transactions is not a reckless design. In fact it should be used by all the governments around the world so that its citizens will be aware where all their taxes are going. Transparency in bitcoin's design is not reckless. But the people enforcing the law will be.

In the ideal world you describe this design is not reckless but it is not an ideal world so it is reckless.

I'm not gonna guess what authorities may or may not do because but looking at various predecessors of Bitcoin it will likely be retarded.

Like say you buy Bitcoins that are unbeknownst to you tainted and you cash them out and the FBI track you down 2 years later. They'd get a search warrant for your property with ease, harass your family and embarrass you infront of your neighbors while treating you like a criminal. And it would likely take time before they know they're barking up the wrong tree. Your time and your distress for buying a tainted Bitcoin.

[amacar2]

I don't think even they arrest they can't prove that guy/person is involved directly with ransomware. Bitcoin tracking firm   this should be considered as just joke, how they gonna track mixed coins ?  

[awesome31312]

Innocent until proven guilty. Even if you can prove the funds came from a particular address, you would have to prove intent, and ownership of the addresses in question.

This is where the flaw in the system is shown. Do you think that the justice system is really fair? That it cannot be "rigged" and the judge influenced to make a verdict in favor of the authorities? Do you still believe in your justice system?

No, I do not. I have seen too many examples of the justice system doing wrong to people, for example, DPR.

[vlom]

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/450302807/Expect-ransomware-arrests-soon-says-bitcoin-tracking-firm-Chainalysis

What are your thoughts on this? When you trade Bitcoin with someone you might be getting tainted coins that put you in danger.

this text is horrible. it just sounds like advertising or PR. why don't they write something about the tech they are using. they just repeat and repeat that they will find everybody who is using BTC for illegal stuff.

[bbc.reporter]

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/450302807/Expect-ransomware-arrests-soon-says-bitcoin-tracking-firm-Chainalysis

What are your thoughts on this? When you trade Bitcoin with someone you might be getting tainted coins that put you in danger.

You are putting too much thought in the issue. "Tainted coins" and "fungibility" are an overused concept and some people think it that it will affect the "value" of their bitcoins.

People put too little thought into this. Forget the block size debate if you don't even have a payment network where buyer and seller are safe.

It's not about the value of my Bitcoins I have since long considered them more like digital gold than currency anyway.

Take this example you buy some Bitcoins from X and the next thing you know the police wants to know where you got them who you bought it from who you are etc etc they want to dig into you like really waste your time and well whatever it is they do. Perhaps they make you give up the seller to prove your innocence who turns out to be some madman?

Now maybe this doesn't concern you but tell me for somebody wanting to use Bitcoin as a currency like actually buying goods outside DNMs why would you?
This design for a payment network is reckless and I wonder for somebody buying and selling actual goods for Bitcoin how many troubles they encounter over a year and how many times they worry over who is paying them Bitcoin and where it comes from.

Do you really think that the authorities will act in such a way without it becoming an issue too? That would be reckless on their part also. In what was the concept of protect and serve in the police system will now be thrown out the window. But how can you call this design as reckless? A public ledger made for all to see your transactions is not a reckless design. In fact it should be used by all the governments around the world so that its citizens will be aware where all their taxes are going. Transparency in bitcoin's design is not reckless. But the people enforcing the law will be.

Like say you buy Bitcoins that are unbeknownst to you tainted and you cash them out and the FBI track you down 2 years later. They'd get a search warrant for your property with ease, harass your family and embarrass you infront of your neighbors while treating you like a criminal. And it would likely take time before they know they're barking up the wrong tree. Your time and your distress for buying a tainted Bitcoin.

Ok. So kindly explain to me where bitcoin's design became reckless there. Because all I see is your FBI story that does not prove or show the recklessness of the design and it only shows how the FBI could harass and embarass you.

[Azael]

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/450302807/Expect-ransomware-arrests-soon-says-bitcoin-tracking-firm-Chainalysis

What are your thoughts on this? When you trade Bitcoin with someone you might be getting tainted coins that put you in danger.

You are putting too much thought in the issue. "Tainted coins" and "fungibility" are an overused concept and some people think it that it will affect the "value" of their bitcoins.

People put too little thought into this. Forget the block size debate if you don't even have a payment network where buyer and seller are safe.

It's not about the value of my Bitcoins I have since long considered them more like digital gold than currency anyway.

Take this example you buy some Bitcoins from X and the next thing you know the police wants to know where you got them who you bought it from who you are etc etc they want to dig into you like really waste your time and well whatever it is they do. Perhaps they make you give up the seller to prove your innocence who turns out to be some madman?

Now maybe this doesn't concern you but tell me for somebody wanting to use Bitcoin as a currency like actually buying goods outside DNMs why would you?
This design for a payment network is reckless and I wonder for somebody buying and selling actual goods for Bitcoin how many troubles they encounter over a year and how many times they worry over who is paying them Bitcoin and where it comes from.

Do you really think that the authorities will act in such a way without it becoming an issue too? That would be reckless on their part also. In what was the concept of protect and serve in the police system will now be thrown out the window. But how can you call this design as reckless? A public ledger made for all to see your transactions is not a reckless design. In fact it should be used by all the governments around the world so that its citizens will be aware where all their taxes are going. Transparency in bitcoin's design is not reckless. But the people enforcing the law will be.

Like say you buy Bitcoins that are unbeknownst to you tainted and you cash them out and the FBI track you down 2 years later. They'd get a search warrant for your property with ease, harass your family and embarrass you infront of your neighbors while treating you like a criminal. And it would likely take time before they know they're barking up the wrong tree. Your time and your distress for buying a tainted Bitcoin.

Ok. So kindly explain to me where bitcoin's design became reckless there. Because all I see is your FBI story that does not prove or show the recklessness of the design and it only shows how the FBI could harass and embarass you.

Already told you in the text you edited out

[Spoetnik]

@Azael
All your logic & reasoning here is a Fail-Train.

You have as much chance of being accused of that scenario with Bitcoin
..as you do with FIAT.

So your analogy is dog shit bud LOL

What if i wind up with money that passed through a drug dealers hands i am going to get busted ?
Not bloody likely.
Maybe once exception.. a Bank's Die pack from a robbery.

I see you're trying but i don't see it working with us all.
Laws exist for a reason.
I don't see pushing the anon coin route then bragging about dark market activity as a good thing.
Monero was doomed and they simply stepped up the time frame now.
Rather than working on being more compliant they went the opposite way with it.
This is not going to help adoption.
I don't see how anyone could think it could either.

Keep trying Monero shill.
I seen you popping up occasionally with these topics before.
I can tell you are on a mission and most likely one of the other Monero shills we know well.
I would not be surprised if you were FEBO.

[bbc.reporter]

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/450302807/Expect-ransomware-arrests-soon-says-bitcoin-tracking-firm-Chainalysis

What are your thoughts on this? When you trade Bitcoin with someone you might be getting tainted coins that put you in danger.

You are putting too much thought in the issue. "Tainted coins" and "fungibility" are an overused concept and some people think it that it will affect the "value" of their bitcoins.

People put too little thought into this. Forget the block size debate if you don't even have a payment network where buyer and seller are safe.

It's not about the value of my Bitcoins I have since long considered them more like digital gold than currency anyway.

Take this example you buy some Bitcoins from X and the next thing you know the police wants to know where you got them who you bought it from who you are etc etc they want to dig into you like really waste your time and well whatever it is they do. Perhaps they make you give up the seller to prove your innocence who turns out to be some madman?

Now maybe this doesn't concern you but tell me for somebody wanting to use Bitcoin as a currency like actually buying goods outside DNMs why would you?
This design for a payment network is reckless and I wonder for somebody buying and selling actual goods for Bitcoin how many troubles they encounter over a year and how many times they worry over who is paying them Bitcoin and where it comes from.

Do you really think that the authorities will act in such a way without it becoming an issue too? That would be reckless on their part also. In what was the concept of protect and serve in the police system will now be thrown out the window. But how can you call this design as reckless? A public ledger made for all to see your transactions is not a reckless design. In fact it should be used by all the governments around the world so that its citizens will be aware where all their taxes are going. Transparency in bitcoin's design is not reckless. But the people enforcing the law will be.

Like say you buy Bitcoins that are unbeknownst to you tainted and you cash them out and the FBI track you down 2 years later. They'd get a search warrant for your property with ease, harass your family and embarrass you infront of your neighbors while treating you like a criminal. And it would likely take time before they know they're barking up the wrong tree. Your time and your distress for buying a tainted Bitcoin.

Ok. So kindly explain to me where bitcoin's design became reckless there. Because all I see is your FBI story that does not prove or show the recklessness of the design and it only shows how the FBI could harass and embarass you.

Already told you in the text you edited out

You mean this?

In the ideal world you describe this design is not reckless but it is not an ideal world so it is reckless.

It does not even say or prove anything. It only says bitcoin's design is reckless according to your statement and according to you. So what if the world is not ideal, it does not make it automatically mean that bitcoin's design is reckless.

[Azael]

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/450302807/Expect-ransomware-arrests-soon-says-bitcoin-tracking-firm-Chainalysis

What are your thoughts on this? When you trade Bitcoin with someone you might be getting tainted coins that put you in danger.

You are putting too much thought in the issue. "Tainted coins" and "fungibility" are an overused concept and some people think it that it will affect the "value" of their bitcoins.

People put too little thought into this. Forget the block size debate if you don't even have a payment network where buyer and seller are safe.

It's not about the value of my Bitcoins I have since long considered them more like digital gold than currency anyway.

Take this example you buy some Bitcoins from X and the next thing you know the police wants to know where you got them who you bought it from who you are etc etc they want to dig into you like really waste your time and well whatever it is they do. Perhaps they make you give up the seller to prove your innocence who turns out to be some madman?

Now maybe this doesn't concern you but tell me for somebody wanting to use Bitcoin as a currency like actually buying goods outside DNMs why would you?
This design for a payment network is reckless and I wonder for somebody buying and selling actual goods for Bitcoin how many troubles they encounter over a year and how many times they worry over who is paying them Bitcoin and where it comes from.

Do you really think that the authorities will act in such a way without it becoming an issue too? That would be reckless on their part also. In what was the concept of protect and serve in the police system will now be thrown out the window. But how can you call this design as reckless? A public ledger made for all to see your transactions is not a reckless design. In fact it should be used by all the governments around the world so that its citizens will be aware where all their taxes are going. Transparency in bitcoin's design is not reckless. But the people enforcing the law will be.

Like say you buy Bitcoins that are unbeknownst to you tainted and you cash them out and the FBI track you down 2 years later. They'd get a search warrant for your property with ease, harass your family and embarrass you infront of your neighbors while treating you like a criminal. And it would likely take time before they know they're barking up the wrong tree. Your time and your distress for buying a tainted Bitcoin.

Ok. So kindly explain to me where bitcoin's design became reckless there. Because all I see is your FBI story that does not prove or show the recklessness of the design and it only shows how the FBI could harass and embarass you.

Already told you in the text you edited out

You mean this?

In the ideal world you describe this design is not reckless but it is not an ideal world so it is reckless.

It does not even say or prove anything. It only says bitcoin's design is reckless according to your statement and according to you. So what if the world is not ideal, it does not make it automatically mean that bitcoin's design is reckless.

If the world was ideal there wouldn't be any tainted coins nor any criminals. But it's not ideal and there are tainted coins and criminals.

You can read about these problems for others here https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4v28jl/how_have_fungiblity_problems_affected_you_in/

Ok. So kindly explain to me where bitcoin's design became reckless there. Because all I see is your FBI story that does not prove or show the recklessness of the design and it only shows how the FBI could harass and embarass you.

Let's say you have a crossroad with no stoplights. And for arguments sake it is the deadliest crossroad in the US where people collide on a monthly basis. Well you as an architect take no responsibility for this crossroad and insist that the design is not reckless and refuse stoplights.. it is always the drivers fault. And who can prove anything else it is not the absence of the stoplights that is killing them but another car! Right?

Come on man.

[Snorek]

The problem with Monero is simple - it has no future as many would think. They only way for cryptocurrency to grow bigger and evolve is market acceptance.
Every serious cryptocurrency should be have its use. What is the point of totally anonymous coin when no one accept it and with current legal framework no one ever will.
Unfortunately there is no place for fully anonymous coins as regulation is name of the game for any crypto aiming to be considered valid FIAT replacement.

[criptix]

All anon coins have one huge problem:

People cant buy and/or sell greater amounts of coins anonymously.
You have to use a third party service like an exchange or similar.

The only way would be to mine it and just buy on dark markets.

[Azael]

The problem with Monero is simple - it has no future as many would think. They only way for cryptocurrency to grow bigger and evolve is market acceptance.
Every serious cryptocurrency should be have its use. What is the point of totally anonymous coin when no one accept it and with current legal framework no one ever will.
Unfortunately there is no place for fully anonymous coins as regulation is name of the game for any crypto aiming to be considered valid FIAT replacement.

Give it some time Monero is starting out the same way Bitcoin did. Physical stores usually accept cash so why can't compliant e-commerce accept e-cash?

[Azael]

I would not be surprised if you were FEBO.

Sure I can be whoever you want me to be. The rest of your post is already adressed so not gonna beat that dead horse.

[Spoetnik]

The dead horse is Monero..

As Snorek said..
You are not drinking the water no matter how many times we lead you to it.
But hey saddle up and ride into the bright Monero sunset if that is what you want.

These guys have made some very fair and honest criticisms of Monero i think though.
I say that from my own neutral perspective.. i don't have a dog in the race though.

I think some of you ..all the FEBO's out there are blinded by the mystical razzle dazzle of smooth & crew.
They seem to have some of you worked up into a frenzied fever pitch..
Liemz OMGZ Da Moneroz are the Futurez !!!!!111ONE

Well good luck with that..

And yeah that last analogy was pittiful.
Give 'em up ..you are not good at them.

@Azael



And i also take offense to your incessant comparisons to Bitcoin.
This offends my beliefs 

[Azael]

All anon coins have one huge problem:

People cant buy and/or sell greater amounts of coins anonymously.
You have to use a third party service like an exchange or similar.

The only way would be to mine it and just buy on dark markets.

Monero ATMs doing cash to e-cash and vice versa might solve the entry problem. What do you think? Seems a step up from cash to e-cash transaction by meeting a person.