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Author Topic: How about this kind of fairness?  (Read 130 times)
ImHash
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September 19, 2016, 03:50:42 AM
 #1

We all know almost what provably fair is but not everyone good at math or want to struggle with hashes and seeds and numbers, digits etc.
Not everyone able to figure out the provably fair system.

What if there was a system that everyone could easily understand and trust 100%?

Could we have a system that works like this? : I chose a number between 0-9 then I roll the dice then you(casino) randomly generate a number between 0-9 when I click on <49 or >51  but now for example I click on <49 while I have selected 3 and your generated number is 4 so I lose because 3 becomes the first digit and 4 the second digit=34 which is under 49.

But if I chose 5 and putted a bet on <49 it can't be considered as first digit because whatever your number might be the result is in my favor and instead only after your generated number is revealed like 8 if my chosen number was 5 or above and selected bet<49 then your generated number counts as first digit=85 I win.

I select 9 and put a bet on >51 and your randomly generated number is 6 I lose either way because 96 or 69 both are bigger than >51.

If I bet on >51 and chose any number from 4 and lower then your number is the first digit but you don't know what my number is so if you randomly generated is 9 still can be considered as the first digit in this case=94 and I lose.

Only thing is to make it impossible for you to know my selected number.
I think this kind of simplification could gain the trust and attract masses to play and gamble at any dice casino.

Please note that I'm not a math genius so if there is any flaws in my suggestion feel free to correct them. Wink
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NLNico
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September 21, 2016, 06:04:41 AM
 #2

Yeh... this won't work.

First of all: < 49 = Result lower than 49 wins. > 51 = Number higher than 51 wins. You seem to switch them.

Secondly if I want to get a result lower than 49, obviously I would just select a number 0-4. Why would I ever chose 5-9? Tongue And because of that I got a huge advantage over the casino.

However, the casino can still easily cheat too. They can just generate a number 0-4 always when I click "over 51". How do you know that this 0-4 number was fairly generated? You cannot know that and you would lose literally every bet. So that is not provably fair.








The basics of provably fair aren't that difficult. Simple example:

Casino generates number + protects it with secret and makes a hash for it. You might find the hash confusing.. but the idea is that the casino gives "their result" in advance.. so they cannot modify it anymore. But it is hashed otherwise you know the end result in advance and could cheat.

Code:
sha256(43-xh7MB8GtqgLmiScbaohDzL2iUoADZhIeyxMabhlX)

Hash that you get in advance:
Code:
21aa12583439f7fd78e3e8630129c146edabbdbf0fa22a2e0cf48b49609828c9

Now you make your bet and send in your result, let's say 76 and "over 51". Casino reveals their number+secret. You can check that the hash was really from that number+secret with any online SHA256 generator. So you can prove that the casino didn't change their number. (This is missing from your idea.)

For the number generation, they would just add up the numbers and if its over 100 remove 100 from it, so (76+43) = 119 - 100 = end result 19. Since you bet "over 51" you lose.

With this you proved: 1) the casino calculated the result with THEIR and YOUR input so neither party could know the end result in advance 2) the casino didn't change THEIR input since you had the hash BEFORE you gave YOUR input.





This is a simplified idea. The average "per roll implementation" and even the "nonce implementation" are based on the same idea with just a bit different result generation. IMO the nonce implementation is the best for individual betting because you don't need to verify the hash literally every bet. You can see a more detailed but still practical explanation about that here: https://dicesites.com/provably-fair

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September 21, 2016, 06:47:55 AM
 #3

Yeh... this won't work.

First of all: < 49 = Result lower than 49 wins. > 51 = Number higher than 51 wins. You seem to switch them.

Secondly if I want to get a result lower than 49, obviously I would just select a number 0-4. Why would I ever chose 5-9? Tongue And because of that I got a huge advantage over the casino.

However, the casino can still easily cheat too. They can just generate a number 0-4 always when I click "over 51". How do you know that this 0-4 number was fairly generated? You cannot know that and you would lose literally every bet. So that is not provably fair.


-snip-


That was exactly my first thought as well. You can manipulate the outcome too much by being able to choose a number AND be able to choose a digit.

This would only work if it always picked a random number from 0-9 for both you and the casino and always uses a random order to put it in.

The way TS is describing it, there is too much that can be influenced or be miscoded and abused.

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