2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't

[Severian]

This position is just one manifestation of a deep-seated authoritarianism that lies below his libertarian facade.

I've noticed that a good number of "libertarians" have fallen into the State's camp since the rise of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is obviously the ultimate short political quiz.

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[cypherdoc]

Let us all not forget that the openness of the blockchain ledger is a feature, not a bug, as denninger asserts.

With proper precautions anonymity can be preserved.

Contrast this with our Federal Reserve which continues to resist all Ron Pauls attempts to conduct a Fed audit.

[justusranvier]

Ultimately I shouldn't be surprised that he comes out with irrational positions like this. He's a member of a cult that seriously believes they can telepathically communicate with a 2000 year old zombie.

Once you put crazy in the center of your world view all bets are off when it comes to the ability to accurately perceive reality.

[cypherdoc]

I used to read his blog a lot. But recently Im starting to suspect that he is an authoritarian masquerading as a libertarian.

He used his blog to constantly attack Ron Paul in the GOP primaries, and then during the election he constantly attacked the libertarian candidate Gary Johnson. Then after the election Denninger suddenly resigned from the libertarian party.

Its hard to believe someone can put out that much material on a daily blog without being paid by someone. IMO Denninger is a paid propagandist for the establishment.

i've read him for years as well and was even a member of his trading forum for a while.

i highly doubt he is a paid propagandist.  but he does make a significant income from ads.  plus you have a great point about him becoming more authoritarian.  because he is so negative about most things i only cruise by there every once in a long while now.

[DublinBrian]

to be able to spend that coin I must make the fact that I hold it and you transferred it to me known to everyone as well.

False! The bitcoin ledger is a record of keys not of a record of people.

If it were as easy to identify bitcoin users, as Denninger claims, then the authorities would have have busted up Silk Road, two years ago.

Denninger has squandered a lot of his credibility today.

[alxs]

Have read and followed Karl for years as most of his analysis is dead on.  However, I never understand how anyone claiming to be a libertarian can be against bitcoin.  For years Karl has written about ingrained corruption in government and finance and nothing gets better, only worse and worse.

This is what Karl fundamentally raves about http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/why-is-the-world-economy-doomed-the-global-financial-pyramid-scheme-by-the-numbers

And yet when something comes along that could upend the state and finance as we know it, this is his response:

"I prefer instead to effort toward political recognition of the duties that come with the privilege that is bestowed on a sovereign currency issuer in the hope of solving the underlying problem rather than sniveling in the corner trying to evade it."

Disappointing is the mildest word I can use.

 

[DublinBrian]

The design is such that when the system was initialized it was reasonably easy to compute a new solution, and thus "mine" a coin.  As each coin is "mined" the next solution becomes more difficult.  The scale of difficulty was set up in such a fashion that it is computationally infeasable using known technology and that expected to be able to be developed in the foreseeable future to reach the maximum number of coins that can be in circulation.  Since each cryptographic solution is finite and singular, and each one gets progressively harder to discern,

This is false. The difficulty of solving a block does not always go up. Sometimes it goes down.

those who first initiated Bitcoin were rewarded with a large number of easily-mined coins for a very cheap "investment" while the computational difficulty of "extracting" each additional one goes up.

Increasing difficulty does not profit early miners at the expense of later miners. Sure bitcoin mining was easier for early adopters, but the value of the mined coins was less. In fact, the first 4 million bitcoins were worth zero when mined.

Its bizarre that Denninger is using a left-wing "envy" based argument against bitcoin, when most of his blog posts are about profiting by buying stocks cheap and selling them on to someone else at a higher price.

[DublinBrian]

At its core the problem is that someone has to control the quantity of issued currency and credit in the economy via some means; since both currency and credit are fungible you must control both or you may as well control neither.

Thats proof that Denninger doesnt understand bitcoin.

In a bitcoin monetary system, money and credit are not fungible. Bitcoins cannot be typed into someones account. Bitcoins are easily distinguishable from credit.

A merchant can refuse to accept payment in MtGox credits and demand actual bitcoins instead.

Just like on the gold standard, banknotes were distinguishable from gold. A merchant could refuse to accept payment in banknotes, and demand actual gold or silver.

[solex]

At its core the problem is that someone has to control the quantity of issued currency and credit in the economy via some means; since both currency and credit are fungible you must control both or you may as well control neither.

Thats proof that Denninger doesnt understand bitcoin.

In a bitcoin monetary system, money and credit are not fungible. Bitcoins cannot be typed into someones account. Bitcoins are easily distinguishable from credit.

A merchant can refuse to accept payment in MtGox credits and demand actual bitcoins instead.

Just like on the gold standard, banknotes were distinguishable from gold. A merchant could refuse to accept payment in banknotes, and demand actual gold or silver.

Absolutely.
Karl has fired from the hip without thinking more deeply.
When the Bitcoin fx rate hits $1,000 then he will realize the shot went into his own foot.

[cypherdoc]

At its core the problem is that someone has to control the quantity of issued currency and credit in the economy via some means; since both currency and credit are fungible you must control both or you may as well control neither.

Thats proof that Denninger doesnt understand bitcoin.

In a bitcoin monetary system, money and credit are not fungible. Bitcoins cannot be typed into someones account. Bitcoins are easily distinguishable from credit.

A merchant can refuse to accept payment in MtGox credits and demand actual bitcoins instead.

Just like on the gold standard, banknotes were distinguishable from gold. A merchant could refuse to accept payment in banknotes, and demand actual gold or silver.

Absolutely.
Karl has fired from the hip without thinking more deeply.
When the Bitcoin fx rate hits $1,000 then he will realize the shot went into his own foot.

why $1000?  he didn't get gold when it hit there.

[solex]

At its core the problem is that someone has to control the quantity of issued currency and credit in the economy via some means; since both currency and credit are fungible you must control both or you may as well control neither.

Thats proof that Denninger doesnt understand bitcoin.

In a bitcoin monetary system, money and credit are not fungible. Bitcoins cannot be typed into someones account. Bitcoins are easily distinguishable from credit.

A merchant can refuse to accept payment in MtGox credits and demand actual bitcoins instead.

Just like on the gold standard, banknotes were distinguishable from gold. A merchant could refuse to accept payment in banknotes, and demand actual gold or silver.

Absolutely.
Karl has fired from the hip without thinking more deeply.
When the Bitcoin fx rate hits $1,000 then he will realize the shot went into his own foot.

why $1000?  he didn't get gold when it hit there.

Because it can be rationalized that gold has done nothing for 30 years in inflation adjusted terms:



This puzzled me for a long time, despite fiat being abused to death, gold has simply been clawing back to a prior peak.
When I learned about Bitcoin the muddy waters cleared.  In a modern economy remote transactions account for 99% by value. So electronic currency is essential and gold has severe limitations as currency. I choose $1000 because, by then, people with Karl's view will be trampled in the stampede to embrace a "new normal".

[whatisthename]

He's also lost a lot of credibility lately when he changes his warning to "Tickercon 1". Maybe he sincerely believed everything was going to fall apart a few weeks ago...but when he does it a couple (or few) times then he just loses credibility.

[iCEBREAKER]

Ignore Douchinger, he's a fat pus-filled zit of misinformation.

He was wrong about gold and silver.  Now he's wrong about Bitcoin.

When he's staving in a gutter, we can all laugh at him.

Until that day, find more productive topics of interest. 

[Wekkel]

When he's staving in a gutter, we can all laugh at him.

Being wrong is not a Shame. Not learning from it is. That goes for readers as well. I don't consider laughing the right mentality here.

[dafridge]

In Chicago back in the early 90's Karl was known as "yamhead".

He was a huge troll and nobody liked him.

I am shocked to find out he is considered one of the "tea party founders".

I read a little of his site and it does come off very authoritarian.

People in comments saying "please don't ban me for this" and the URL to bitcointalk being XXX'd out / banned.

I guess years of being made fun of / called yamhead on the internet turns you into a jerk!

[iCEBREAKER]

"Yamhead" bwahahah.  That's gold Jerry.  Gold!

Why is Yamhead Douchinger considered a Tea Party founder?

That's 100% pure misinformation AFAIK.

[dafridge]

Why is Yamhead Douchinger considered a Tea Party founder?

that was a quote from his wikipedia page

[justusranvier]

"Yamhead" bwahahah.  That's gold Jerry.  Gold!

Why is Yamhead Douchinger considered a Tea Party founder?

That's 100% pure misinformation AFAIK.

No, actually it's quite true. He published a blog post back in January of 2009 which was the direct inspiration for Rick Santelli's on-air rant, which kicked off the entire movement (as a protest against the bailouts, before the term was subverted by the Republican Party for their own purposes).

I was there when it happened.

[iCEBREAKER]

Santelli's great, but he and Yamhead didn't start the Tea Party.  You were there when it accelerated, not originated.

The Tea Parties started in 2007.  I was there when it happened.   

2009 was when the specter of ObamaCare motivated the sheeple to stamped into the movement we created.

Palin jumped aboard and the Teahadist movement was born.  But they're an offshoot, not the main branch, much less the roots.

Proof:

Ron Paul Revolution: The Austin Tea Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UyB1JLL6H0&list=PL8CA0A66D8CAB0467

The Tea Party Started In 2007 And Ron Paul Is The Godfather
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQXAf7Im8Bg

/before it was cool hipster