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Author Topic: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't  (Read 4917 times)
Severian
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March 31, 2013, 05:10:04 PM
 #21

This position is just one manifestation of a deep-seated authoritarianism that lies below his libertarian facade.

I've noticed that a good number of "libertarians" have fallen into the State's camp since the rise of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is obviously the ultimate short political quiz.
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March 31, 2013, 07:07:13 PM
 #22

Let us all not forget that the openness of the blockchain ledger is a feature, not a bug, as denninger asserts.

With proper precautions anonymity can be preserved.

Contrast this with our Federal Reserve which continues to resist all Ron Pauls attempts to conduct a Fed audit.
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March 31, 2013, 07:11:57 PM
 #23

Ultimately I shouldn't be surprised that he comes out with irrational positions like this. He's a member of a cult that seriously believes they can telepathically communicate with a 2000 year old zombie.

Once you put crazy in the center of your world view all bets are off when it comes to the ability to accurately perceive reality.
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March 31, 2013, 07:58:30 PM
 #24

I used to read his blog a lot. But recently Im starting to suspect that he is an authoritarian masquerading as a libertarian.

He used his blog to constantly attack Ron Paul in the GOP primaries, and then during the election he constantly attacked the libertarian candidate Gary Johnson. Then after the election Denninger suddenly resigned from the libertarian party.

Its hard to believe someone can put out that much material on a daily blog without being paid by someone. IMO Denninger is a paid propagandist for the establishment.

i've read him for years as well and was even a member of his trading forum for a while.

i highly doubt he is a paid propagandist.  but he does make a significant income from ads.  plus you have a great point about him becoming more authoritarian.  because he is so negative about most things i only cruise by there every once in a long while now.
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March 31, 2013, 08:18:10 PM
 #25

Quote from: Karl Denninger
to be able to spend that coin I must make the fact that I hold it and you transferred it to me known to everyone as well.
False! The bitcoin ledger is a record of keys not of a record of people.

If it were as easy to identify bitcoin users, as Denninger claims, then the authorities would have have busted up Silk Road, two years ago.

Denninger has squandered a lot of his credibility today.

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March 31, 2013, 08:42:25 PM
 #26

Have read and followed Karl for years as most of his analysis is dead on.  However, I never understand how anyone claiming to be a libertarian can be against bitcoin.  For years Karl has written about ingrained corruption in government and finance and nothing gets better, only worse and worse.

This is what Karl fundamentally raves about http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/why-is-the-world-economy-doomed-the-global-financial-pyramid-scheme-by-the-numbers

And yet when something comes along that could upend the state and finance as we know it, this is his response:

"I prefer instead to effort toward political recognition of the duties that come with the privilege that is bestowed on a sovereign currency issuer in the hope of solving the underlying problem rather than sniveling in the corner trying to evade it."

Disappointing is the mildest word I can use.

 
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March 31, 2013, 09:28:30 PM
 #27

Quote from: Karl Denninger
The design is such that when the system was initialized it was reasonably easy to compute a new solution, and thus "mine" a coin.  As each coin is "mined" the next solution becomes more difficult.  The scale of difficulty was set up in such a fashion that it is computationally infeasable using known technology and that expected to be able to be developed in the foreseeable future to reach the maximum number of coins that can be in circulation.  Since each cryptographic solution is finite and singular, and each one gets progressively harder to discern,
This is false. The difficulty of solving a block does not always go up. Sometimes it goes down.

Quote from: Karl Denninger
those who first initiated Bitcoin were rewarded with a large number of easily-mined coins for a very cheap "investment" while the computational difficulty of "extracting" each additional one goes up.
Increasing difficulty does not profit early miners at the expense of later miners. Sure bitcoin mining was easier for early adopters, but the value of the mined coins was less. In fact, the first 4 million bitcoins were worth zero when mined.

Its bizarre that Denninger is using a left-wing "envy" based argument against bitcoin, when most of his blog posts are about profiting by buying stocks cheap and selling them on to someone else at a higher price.

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March 31, 2013, 09:43:04 PM
 #28

Quote from: Karl Denninger
At its core the problem is that someone has to control the quantity of issued currency and credit in the economy via some means; since both currency and credit are fungible you must control both or you may as well control neither.
Thats proof that Denninger doesnt understand bitcoin.

In a bitcoin monetary system, money and credit are not fungible. Bitcoins cannot be typed into someones account. Bitcoins are easily distinguishable from credit.

A merchant can refuse to accept payment in MtGox credits and demand actual bitcoins instead.

Just like on the gold standard, banknotes were distinguishable from gold. A merchant could refuse to accept payment in banknotes, and demand actual gold or silver.

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March 31, 2013, 09:55:45 PM
 #29

Quote from: Karl Denninger
At its core the problem is that someone has to control the quantity of issued currency and credit in the economy via some means; since both currency and credit are fungible you must control both or you may as well control neither.
Thats proof that Denninger doesnt understand bitcoin.

In a bitcoin monetary system, money and credit are not fungible. Bitcoins cannot be typed into someones account. Bitcoins are easily distinguishable from credit.

A merchant can refuse to accept payment in MtGox credits and demand actual bitcoins instead.

Just like on the gold standard, banknotes were distinguishable from gold. A merchant could refuse to accept payment in banknotes, and demand actual gold or silver.



Absolutely.
Karl has fired from the hip without thinking more deeply.
When the Bitcoin fx rate hits $1,000 then he will realize the shot went into his own foot.

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March 31, 2013, 09:57:59 PM
 #30

Quote from: Karl Denninger
At its core the problem is that someone has to control the quantity of issued currency and credit in the economy via some means; since both currency and credit are fungible you must control both or you may as well control neither.
Thats proof that Denninger doesnt understand bitcoin.

In a bitcoin monetary system, money and credit are not fungible. Bitcoins cannot be typed into someones account. Bitcoins are easily distinguishable from credit.

A merchant can refuse to accept payment in MtGox credits and demand actual bitcoins instead.

Just like on the gold standard, banknotes were distinguishable from gold. A merchant could refuse to accept payment in banknotes, and demand actual gold or silver.



Absolutely.
Karl has fired from the hip without thinking more deeply.
When the Bitcoin fx rate hits $1,000 then he will realize the shot went into his own foot.


why $1000?  he didn't get gold when it hit there.
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March 31, 2013, 10:25:51 PM
 #31

Quote from: Karl Denninger
At its core the problem is that someone has to control the quantity of issued currency and credit in the economy via some means; since both currency and credit are fungible you must control both or you may as well control neither.
Thats proof that Denninger doesnt understand bitcoin.

In a bitcoin monetary system, money and credit are not fungible. Bitcoins cannot be typed into someones account. Bitcoins are easily distinguishable from credit.

A merchant can refuse to accept payment in MtGox credits and demand actual bitcoins instead.

Just like on the gold standard, banknotes were distinguishable from gold. A merchant could refuse to accept payment in banknotes, and demand actual gold or silver.



Absolutely.
Karl has fired from the hip without thinking more deeply.
When the Bitcoin fx rate hits $1,000 then he will realize the shot went into his own foot.


why $1000?  he didn't get gold when it hit there.

Because it can be rationalized that gold has done nothing for 30 years in inflation adjusted terms:



This puzzled me for a long time, despite fiat being abused to death, gold has simply been clawing back to a prior peak.
When I learned about Bitcoin the muddy waters cleared.  In a modern economy remote transactions account for 99% by value. So electronic currency is essential and gold has severe limitations as currency. I choose $1000 because, by then, people with Karl's view will be trampled in the stampede to embrace a "new normal".

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March 31, 2013, 11:38:56 PM
 #32

He's also lost a lot of credibility lately when he changes his warning to "Tickercon 1". Maybe he sincerely believed everything was going to fall apart a few weeks ago...but when he does it a couple (or few) times then he just loses credibility.
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March 31, 2013, 11:58:22 PM
 #33

Ignore Douchinger, he's a fat pus-filled zit of misinformation.

He was wrong about gold and silver.  Now he's wrong about Bitcoin.

When he's staving in a gutter, we can all laugh at him.

Until that day, find more productive topics of interest. 



Warning Dash is a planned instamine, it wasn't an accident


The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
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April 01, 2013, 05:10:49 AM
 #34

When he's staving in a gutter, we can all laugh at him.

Being wrong is not a Shame. Not learning from it is. That goes for readers as well. I don't consider laughing the right mentality here.

Like this post? you can tip me (BTC) 1LGi2DMhectdFSkBid5srrnHk8WHgD3V1d or very WoW (Doge) D9p6FZQb1sKkq9hApy4tnjSduYfdnc74bb
dafridge
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April 10, 2013, 09:22:45 AM
 #35

In Chicago back in the early 90's Karl was known as "yamhead".

He was a huge troll and nobody liked him.

I am shocked to find out he is considered one of the "tea party founders".

I read a little of his site and it does come off very authoritarian.

People in comments saying "please don't ban me for this" and the URL to bitcointalk being XXX'd out / banned.

I guess years of being made fun of / called yamhead on the internet turns you into a jerk!
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April 10, 2013, 06:01:31 PM
 #36

"Yamhead" bwahahah.  That's gold Jerry.  Gold!

Why is Yamhead Douchinger considered a Tea Party founder?

That's 100% pure misinformation AFAIK.


Warning Dash is a planned instamine, it wasn't an accident


The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
dafridge
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April 10, 2013, 11:32:31 PM
 #37

Why is Yamhead Douchinger considered a Tea Party founder?

that was a quote from his wikipedia page
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April 10, 2013, 11:41:11 PM
 #38

"Yamhead" bwahahah.  That's gold Jerry.  Gold!

Why is Yamhead Douchinger considered a Tea Party founder?

That's 100% pure misinformation AFAIK.
No, actually it's quite true. He published a blog post back in January of 2009 which was the direct inspiration for Rick Santelli's on-air rant, which kicked off the entire movement (as a protest against the bailouts, before the term was subverted by the Republican Party for their own purposes).

I was there when it happened.
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April 11, 2013, 02:53:33 AM
 #39

Santelli's great, but he and Yamhead didn't start the Tea Party.  You were there when it accelerated, not originated.

The Tea Parties started in 2007.  I was there when it happened.   Cool

2009 was when the specter of ObamaCare motivated the sheeple to stamped into the movement we created.

Palin jumped aboard and the Teahadist movement was born.  But they're an offshoot, not the main branch, much less the roots.

Proof:

Ron Paul Revolution: The Austin Tea Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UyB1JLL6H0&list=PL8CA0A66D8CAB0467

The Tea Party Started In 2007 And Ron Paul Is The Godfather
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQXAf7Im8Bg

/before it was cool hipster



Warning Dash is a planned instamine, it wasn't an accident


The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
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