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Author Topic: Intervention Theory: An alternative to Darwinism and Creationism  (Read 9423 times)
CoinCube (OP)
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September 22, 2016, 11:54:33 PM
Last edit: December 17, 2016, 09:13:03 PM by CoinCube
 #1

THE EMERGENCE OF DOMESTICATED PLANTS
Nearly all domesticated plants are believed to have appeared between 10,000 and 5,000 years ago, with different groups coming to different parts of the world at different times. Initially, in the so-called Fertile Crescent of modern Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, came wheat, barley and legumes, among other varieties. Later on, in the Far East, came wheat, millet, rice and yams. Later still, in the New World, came maize (corn), peppers, beans, squash, tomatoes and potatoes.

Many have "wild" predecessors that were apparently a starting point for the domesticated variety, but others--like many common vegetables--have no obvious precursors. But for those that do, such as wild grasses, grains and cereals, how they turned into wheat, barley, millet, rice, etc. is a profound mystery.

No botanist can conclusively explain how wild plants gave rise to domesticated ones. The emphasis here is on "conclusively". Botanists have no trouble hypothesising elaborate scenarios in which Neolithic (New Stone Age) farmers somehow figured out how to hybridise wild grasses, grains and cereals, not unlike Gregor Mendel when he cross-bred pea plants to figure out the mechanics of genetic inheritance. It all sounds so simple and so logical, almost no one outside scientific circles ever examines it closely.

But that brings up what Charles Darwin himself called the "abominable mystery" of flowering plants. The first ones appear in the fossil record between 150 and 130 million years ago, primed to multiply into over 200,000 known species. But no one can explain their presence because there is no connective link to any form of plants that preceded them. It is as if--dare I say it?--they were brought to Earth by something akin to You Know What. If so, then it could well be that they were delivered with a built-in capacity to develop multiple chromosome sets, and somehow our Neolithic forebears cracked the codes for the ones most advantageous to humans.

However the codes were cracked, the great expansion of genetic material in each cell of the domestic varieties caused them to grow much larger than their wild ancestors. As they grew, their seeds and grains became large enough to be easily seen and picked up and manipulated by human fingers. Simultaneously, the seeds and grains softened to a degree where they could be milled, cooked and consumed. And at the same time, their cellular chemistry was altered enough to begin providing nourishment to humans who ate them. The only word that remotely equates with that achievement is: miracle.

Of course, "miracle" implies that there was actually a chance that such complex manipulations of nature could be carried out by primitive yeomen in eight geographical areas over 5,000 years. This strains credulity because, in each case, in each area, someone actually had to look at a wild progenitor and imagine what it could become, or should become, or would become. Then they somehow had to ensure that their vision would be carried forward through countless generations that had to remain committed to planting, harvesting, culling and crossbreeding wild plants that put no food on their tables during their lifetimes, but which might feed their descendants in some remotely distant future.

It is difficult to try to concoct a more unlikely, more absurd, scenario, yet to modern-day botanists it is a gospel they believe with a fervor that puts many "six day" Creationists to shame. Why? Because to confront its towering absurdity would force them to turn to You Know What for a more logical and plausible explanation.

To domesticate a wild plant without using artificial (i.e., genetic) manipulation, it must be modified by directed crossbreeding, which is only possible through the efforts of humans. So the equation is simple. Firstly, wild ancestors for many (but not all) domestic plants do seem apparent. Secondly, most domesticated versions did appear from 10,000 to 5,000 years ago. Thirdly, the humans alive at that time were primitive barbarians. Fourthly, in the past 5,000 years, no plants have been domesticated that are nearly as valuable as the dozens that were "created" by the earliest farmers all around the world. Put an equal sign after those four factors and it definitely does not add up to any kind of Darwinian model.

Botanists know they have a serious problem here, but all they can suggest is that it simply had to have occurred by natural means because no other intervention--by God or You Know What--can be considered under any circumstances. That unwavering stance is maintained by all scientists, not just botanists, to exclude overwhelming evidence such as the fact that in 1837 the Botanical Garden in St Petersburg, Russia, began concerted attempts to cultivate wild rye into a new form of domestication. They are still trying, because their rye has lost none of its wild traits, especially the fragility of its stalk and its small grain. Therein lies the most embarrassing conundrum botanists face.

This is very interesting and leads to some compelling possibilities. It implies that human development has been guided and shaped in a way that is subtle yet dramatic.

Starting Posits
Let us for a moment assume the following posits are true:
1) That's there was outside intervention between 5,000-10,000 years ago whose end result was to stabilize and improve man's food supply.
2) That biblical events surrounding the beginnings of monotheism the exodus from Egypt, the parting of the Red Sea etc are fact.
What possible purpose could justify such an intervention? Why interfere rather than let us discover truth for ourselves? Let’s take a moment to examine end effects.

End Effects
Stabilizing our food supply significantly eases the strain required to meet basic physical necessities. It would allow humanity to devote more resources towards knowledge and in all probability rapidly speed our development. In a similar manner ethical monotheism is probably the single greatest contributor to human progress from any source.

Quote from: Dennis Prager
Nature is amoral. Nature knows nothing of good and evil. In nature there is one rule—survival of the fittest. There is no right, only might. If a creature is weak, kill it. Only human beings could have moral rules such as, "If it is weak, protect it." Only human beings can feel themselves ethically obligated to strangers.
...
Nature allows you to act naturally, i.e., do only what you want you to do, without moral restraints; God does not. Nature lets you act naturally - and it is as natural to kill, rape, and enslave as it is to love.
...
One of the vital elements in the ethical monotheist revolution was its repudiation of nature as god. The evolution of civilization and morality have depended in large part on desanctifying nature.
...
Civilizations that equated gods with nature—a characteristic of all primitive societies—or that worshipped nature did not evolve.
...
Words cannot convey the magnitude of the change wrought by the Bible's introduction into the world of a God who rules the universe morally.

Justification for Intervention
Understanding end effects, however, does not help us understand the necessity of intervention. Why intervene when given enough time we could make discoveries on our own? The most likely answer is that it was necessary. Intervention theory indicates that early humanity may have been in big trouble.  

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/human-journey/
Quote
According to the genetic and paleontological record, we only started to leave Africa between 60,000 and 70,000 years ago. What set this in motion is uncertain, but we think it has something to do with major climatic shifts that were happening around that time—a sudden cooling in the Earth’s climate driven by the onset of one of the worst parts of the last Ice Age. This cold snap would have made life difficult for our African ancestors, and the genetic evidence points to a sharp reduction in population size around this time. In fact, the human population likely dropped to fewer than 10,000. We were holding on by a thread.

It is the survivors of this near extinction who appear to have made some form of fundamental technological, social or evolutionary leap that allowed humanity to break the prior constraints which had kept its population small and limited to Africa.

http://blog.23andme.com/news/the-first-population-explosion-human-numbers-expanded-dramatically-millennia-before-agriculture/
Quote
The authors found genetic evidence for a surge in human population size about 40,000 to 50,000 years ago. This period, just after humans first set foot outside Africa, is of great interest to archaeologists because it coincides with a dramatic increase in the sophistication of human behavior. People began crafting tools from bone, burying their dead and fashioning clothing to keep themselves warm in cool climates. They developed complex hunting techniques, and created great works of art in the form of cave paintings and jewelery.

The archaeological record also shows that during this time, humans began hunting more dangerous prey and more easily exploiting small game like rabbits and birds. They traveled farther than they had before, perhaps due to the growth of long-distance trade routes – the first of their kind. Jared Diamond, author of The Third Chimpanzee, calls this period “The Great Leap Forward,” when humans burst forth culturally – finally separating themselves from their evolutionary cousins.
The exact cause for these changes in human behavior may never be known. Some believe a simple genetic mutation or that the evolution of language could have sparked such a dramatic change. But what we do know now, thanks to this new genetic research, is that like the (much later) invention of agriculture this explosion of innovation was accompanied by population growth.

In Genesis our ancestors are warned not to eat of the fruit of the “Etz Hadaath,” the “Tree of Knowledge” for as long as they did not eat of it, they were like angels who do only good. The fruit of the “Tree of Knowledge,” however, changed this.

People interpret this story in different ways but I tend to view it as instructive parable. A primitive species in a natural competitive equilibrium can be thought of as living in a garden. Breaching this equilibrium requires knowledge. Sometime around 70,000 years ago our ancient ancestors acquired the knowledge needed to explosively overcome the constraints that had previously kept our numbers and progress in check. We ceased living as a part of nature and began to dominate it. This breakthrough led to the spread of humanity throughout the world.

It may also have started a countdown to our extinction. Having acquired enough knowledge to breach environmental equilibrium we are now compelled to acquire sufficient knowledge to reestablish equilibrium at a higher level. Failure to do so may mean extinction. Intervention theory may be a telling us that early humanity lacked the resources to accomplish this task without aid.  

Quote from: Genesis 2,15
The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die

Quote from: Genesis 3,22
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden

Mechanism of Intervention
What is the mechanism of intervention? It could of course be direct intervention from God suspending cause and effect. Another possibility is advanced technology. If the mechanism was technology the entity or entities performing the intervention would probably have certain proprieties.

1) They would probably not be native to our solar system.
2) They would likely be immortal or nearly immortal because of #1 above.
3) They would exist primarily in the mental realm the world of ideas, logic, and spirit because of #2 above making their connection with the physical world secondary.

Quote from: Arthur C. Clark
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic

Intervention theory may blur the line between the extraterrestrial and the angelic. It leads us to the possibility that monotheism may be the religion of angels given as gift.

Perhaps God’s Justice decreed that man must die but God’s Mercy intervened.


Intervention Theory: Did a Higher Powere Defeat the Nazis

BADecker
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September 23, 2016, 12:23:00 AM
 #2

Fun stuff. And fun stuff is, well, just that... fun stuff. But this fun stuff seeks to avoid the questions of where it all came from.

Probability math shows us that evolution is impossible beyond any hint of a possibility. So, where did everything come from? especially life, which is extremely complex?

Whomever or Whatever made all this universe is still the question. And with that question, no answers are really found in this "alternative" thread. Only more questions.

Cause and effect, complexity and entropy still prove God. But even if they didn't, nature shows God. So, we are right back at the same point as before. Darwinism is a failure, and God is the Ruler of the universe.

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popcorn1
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September 23, 2016, 12:48:38 AM
Last edit: September 23, 2016, 01:16:54 AM by popcorn1
 #3

But that brings up what Charles Darwin himself called the "abominable mystery" of flowering plants. The first ones appear in the fossil record between 150 and 130 million years ago, primed to multiply into over 200,000 known species. But no one can explain their presence because there is no connective link to any form of plants that preceded them..
                        ^
   Because they turned into oil or coal  Wink..

The researchers found that land plants had evolved on Earth by about 700 million years ago and land fungi by about 1,300 million years ago — much earlier than previous estimates of around 480 million years ago, which were based on the earliest fossils of those organisms.

Humans evolved from plants and fungi..
Human as got plant DNA plus some plants act like humans..

It's not known yet but i thinks that when people turn out gay is it because of stress
Why do i say this because if you stress some plants they can turn hermaphrodite..
So i was wondering if the same chemical effect change can happen in humans to make a human gay or get cancer or birth defect?
Chemical processes in our bodies can act the same as plants in some ways..
Not saying it's fact but it's a good study to study..I think i am onto something..

OMG just found this..

Evolution of Humans from Plants - YouTube
Video for human come from plants▶ 4:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgPjqRdmfgA..

Stress plants out and they change..Can it happen in humans?..

Oh before you start i don't mean a human popped out of a plant i mean some type of creature appeared out of a plant then animal evolution started.
Venus fly trap taste for blood..Some sea plants eat fish..
 
Algae grew turned into Plants..
Then the plants evolved into sea plants
Then the sea plants evolved and grew little microbes to help the plant live better I.E feed it clean it..
Then the microbes evolved and turned into little sea creatures.
Then the creatures evolved into little fish
Then fish evolved into land creatures
Then the land creatures turned into animals
Then the animals turned into monkeys
Then the monkeys turned to humans..

Just my thoughts But i know i am right because i always am  Grin..

ALGAE is the start of plant life..Then it's up to the weather to change the plant life..
All changes in evolution are to do with the weather..

 
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September 23, 2016, 01:03:20 AM
 #4

No divine intervention is necessary. What exists now is what didn't die. You are not factoring in all those things that died. We are just one rare random thing. No big deal. Many rare random things died along the way. Some random thing was going to exist and we just happen to be it.

CoinCube don't lose your math objectivity. You'll never be able to prove God exists. It will always be a tautology. But don't worry because our existence is also a tautology Wink Even the speed-of-light is what ever we think it is, totally arbitrary figment of our measurement precision. I will blog on this if I have time.
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September 23, 2016, 01:03:56 AM
 #5

THE EMERGENCE OF DOMESTICATED PLANTS
Nearly all domesticated plants ....

.... the "abominable mystery" of flowering plants.... .....

Why didn't you just start out and yell "Divine Intervention?"

Damn that was one long and tedious bunch of "What if?" and "Just Presume?"  all favoring the desired end argument, while at the same time you require biologists to have "conclusive" proof.
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September 23, 2016, 01:40:56 AM
Last edit: September 23, 2016, 01:52:54 AM by qwik2learn
 #6

Spendulus:
That is a grossly ignorant and lazy analysis of the facts being presented.

Mechanism of Intervention
What is the mechanism of intervention? It could of course be direct intervention from God suspending cause and effect. Another possibility is advanced technology. If the mechanism was technology the entity or entities performing the intervention would probably have certain proprieties.

1) They would probably not be native to our solar system.
2) They would likely be immortal or nearly immortal because of #1 above.
3) They would exist primarily in the mental realm the world of ideas, logic, and spirit because of #2 above making their connection with the physical world secondary.
So you are saying that these etheric, immaterial, extraterrestrial beings intervened to "intervene" with human evolution and also the evolution of the other organisms mentioned in Pye's article, yes?

Quote from: Arthur C. Clark
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic

Intervention theory may blur the line between the extraterrestrial and the angelic. It leads us to the possibility that monotheism may be the religion of angels given as gift.

Perhaps God’s Justice decreed that man must die but God’s Mercy intervened.
It seems obvious that much knowledge has come from ET sources; this information is very freely available and hard to refute; one only has to look as far as Pye's writings or the Ancient Aliens television series to see the evidence behind intervention. Now if you watch Ancient Aliens, you will notice a very Socratic method being used for disclosing the evidence; the facts are presented but to draw conclusions about the intent of these beings is very problematic because it could be any kind of being.

So now my question is this: how can we communicate with the angelic beings? What language do they use in the world of the spirit? And what about the teachings that come from those who claim to give voice to these speakers? Is there any one who is a valid speaker for the angels?
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September 23, 2016, 02:02:13 AM
 #7

mentioned in Pye's article, yes?

I suggest that curious minds read the whole article with Hatonn's commentary; it starts on page 5.
http://www.phoenixsourcedistributors.com/020724.pdf
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September 23, 2016, 02:55:03 AM
 #8

No divine intervention is necessary. What exists now is what didn't die. You are not factoring in all those things that died. We are just one rare random thing. No big deal. Many rare random things died along the way. Some random thing was going to exist and we just happen to be it.

CoinCube don't lose your math objectivity. You'll never be able to prove God exists. It will always be a tautology. But don't worry because our existence is also a tautology Wink Even the speed-of-light is what ever we think it is, totally arbitrary figment of our measurement precision. I will blog on this if I have time.

Sorry we were (are) not the only one.

Quote from: Cheese cheese
I sing this to myself when my cat sleeps on my siblings beds instead of mine
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September 23, 2016, 06:34:31 AM
Last edit: September 23, 2016, 12:26:44 PM by CoinCube
 #9


Intervention theory may blur the line between the extraterrestrial and the angelic. It leads us to the possibility that monotheism may be the religion of angels given as gift.

Perhaps God’s Justice decreed that man must die but God’s Mercy intervened.
...

So now my question is this: how can we communicate with the angelic beings? What language do they use in the world of the spirit? And what about the teachings that come from those who claim to give voice to these speakers? Is there any one who is a valid speaker for the angels?

A challenging question. Perhaps we can turn to one of those claimed to be such a speaker for the angels for possible answers?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/087306769X/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1/159-3751462-6767111?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_r=NM9R7T16A9G2147WGMJX&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=1944687722&pf_rd_i=1598264672

Way of God by Moshe Chaim Luzzatto aka the Ramchal is a book written around 1740 and relevant insofar as it is both systematic logical and that because it's author is among those who claimed direct instruction from an angel.

Quote from: the RaMCHaL
Before Adam sinned, he was on a much higher level than contemporary man. In that state, man was on a very lofty level, fit for a high degree of eternal excellence. If he had not sinned, man would simply have been able to elevate and perfect himself, step by step.

He would then give birth to future generations while still in that state of excellence. Their number would be accurately determined by God's wisdom, depending on how those enjoying his good should best be perfected. All these future generation would have shared this good with Adam.

God had also determined and decreed that all these generations would have been born of Adam should exist on various determined levels. Some generations would be primary, while others would be secondary, like roots and branches. Later generations would stem from the earlier ones [and share their characteristics], like branches stemming from a tree. The number of trees and branches, however, was determined from the very beginning with the utmost precision.

When Adam sinned, he fell from his original high level, and brought upon himself a great degree of darkness and insensitivity. Mankind in general also fell from its original height, and remained on a degraded level where it was not at all worthy of the eternal high degree of excellence originally destined for it.

The RaMCHaL also writes chapters on theurgy, inspiration, prophecy, and prayer as ways we can communicate with angelic beings, however, the writing here is probably the most difficult part of the book to comprehend.

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September 23, 2016, 07:07:50 AM
 #10

But that brings up what Charles Darwin himself called the "abominable mystery" of flowering plants. The first ones appear in the fossil record between 150 and 130 million years ago, primed to multiply into over 200,000 known species. But no one can explain their presence because there is no connective link to any form of plants that preceded them..
                        ^
   Because they turned into oil or coal  Wink..

<>

All you need to do is take a peak into the dumpster of any restaurant to see that there isn't any knowledge of where fossils came from. Food in the dumpster doesn't last very long. Even the preservative chemicals that processed foods have, doesn't stop them from decaying.

Why do we have fossils when microbes should have destroyed them before they had a chance to fossilize?

If you research the idea of fossilization, you will find that it doesn't take very long for some things to fossilize. But it still isn't fast enough for there to be any soft tissue fossilization, because of decay.

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CoinCube (OP)
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September 23, 2016, 01:23:31 PM
 #11

CoinCube don't lose your math objectivity. You'll never be able to prove God exists. It will always be a tautology. But don't worry because our existence is also a tautology Wink Even the speed-of-light is what ever we think it is, totally arbitrary figment of our measurement precision. I will blog on this if I have time.

Objectivity is important. But I am not trying to prove God exists at least not in this thread. BADecker pointed out upthread.

Whomever or Whatever made all this universe is still the question. And with that question, no answers are really found in this "alternative" thread. Only more questions.

God's true nature cannot be understood by any being other then himself. Angels, however, are entities of a significantly lower level. It is possible that their natures can be fully understood. The OP explores the possible nature, motivations, and actions of angels.

BADecker
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September 23, 2016, 01:43:05 PM
 #12

CoinCube don't lose your math objectivity. You'll never be able to prove God exists. It will always be a tautology. But don't worry because our existence is also a tautology Wink Even the speed-of-light is what ever we think it is, totally arbitrary figment of our measurement precision. I will blog on this if I have time.

Objectivity is important. But I am not trying to prove God exists at least not in this thread. BADecker pointed out upthread.

Whomever or Whatever made all this universe is still the question. And with that question, no answers are really found in this "alternative" thread. Only more questions.

God's true nature cannot be understood by any being other then himself. Angels, however, are entities of a significantly lower level. It is possible that their natures can be fully understood. The OP explores the possible nature, motivations, and actions of angels.

Before we get to the point that we can understand angels, we need to know more about ourselves.

Standard science suggests that there is no soul. The few scientists that are working on analyzing the soul, are weirdos with regard to standard science. Obviously we know way too little about ourselves to even think about understanding the nature of angels. Maybe if we could sift through the standard science that is pseudoscience?

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September 23, 2016, 02:59:19 PM
 #13

I suppose it would help to understand that the fossil record is not 100% complete...

The thing with fossils is... they are kinda randomly formed... not every plant or animal turns into a fossil... most decay

The odds of an animal or plant becoming a fossil is around 1/1,000,000... it's a rare event, so not all plants or animals that have existed are guaranteed to be fossilized

Then, you have to find and dig up the fossil... which not many people do... so we have not found all of them

Even so, BILLIONS of fossils have been found, which makes for a lot of evidence, all pointing to evolution

There is zero evidence that any god or alien intervened at any point in history... none, zero, zip, zilch
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September 23, 2016, 05:05:58 PM
 #14

There is zero evidence that any god or alien intervened at any point in history... none, zero, zip, zilch

You must be confused. The OP is illustrating that abundant solid evidence exists to prove the mainstream scientific community is as wrong as it can possibly be about how humans have come to be on Earth. It seems like your utmost priority is not seeking truth but supporting the ossified ideology of mainstream science.

The Sumerians have been accepted by mainstream historians as the first “great” civilized culture of antiquity because, literally out of nowhere, they developed over 100 “firsts” (such as the "first written language") that we attribute to a highly developed society.
Among the incredible array of things they knew but could not possibly have learned on their own was, indeed, an awareness of Neptune, Uranus, and Pluto as planets in our local solar system. This information, the Sumerians claimed, was given to them by the multiple “gods” who had created them in “a house of fashioning” (a genetics lab) many thousands of years prior to when they lived.

Read Moar from Lloyd Pye: http://www.lloydpye.com/lloydpyewikipedia.htm
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September 23, 2016, 05:28:04 PM
 #15

To the unaware or the uninitiated, I know how the above must sound, but the evidence for it is astonishing if it can be approached with even a quasi-open mind. Millions of good people can't do that, of course, because they are so thoroughly brainwashed against thinking that far 'outside the box'. But for those who can face such an emotional challenge, the rewards are manifest. Nobody in the alternative community demands that anyone see the world as we do. That's what religion and science inflict on others. All we want is an opportunity to have our opinions heard and our ideas evaluated, fairly and objectively, with no harping about our lack of 'credentials' or 'credibility'.

In the hundred and fifty years since Darwin, science has become every bit as entrenched as religion once was, and every bit as belligerent and vindictive against any who dare to question the right of its priesthood to absolute correctness in all that they utter or pronounce.

A terrified mainstream labours to suppress any information that in any way could seriously challenge one of their baseline beliefs.

Scientists have no trouble dismissing ghosts, werewolves, vampires, fairies, trolls, etc., but the reality of UFOs, aliens, or hominoids will devastate them when they have to deal with the fallout from their decades of denial-based perceptions.

The undeniable reality of any of those three would mean that neither science nor humanity is what it is cracked up to be. Scientists would be exposed, and humanity would be seen as having no roots or existence in the flowchart of ancient life on Earth. Our world as we know it would never be the same.

My most compelling urge is to help all of us come to know and accept who we actually are, rather than believing the ridiculous fairy tale concocted for the gullible billions by modern science. That fantasy reduces us all to little more than cartoon characters in a Disney classic. Until we firmly establish who we actually are and how we've come to be here on Earth, we can never take our proper place in the larger scheme of life in the universe. We can never take our rightful seat at any Galactic Roundtable that might be out there, or take a seat in a bar like the one in Star Wars. Until we dare to acknowledge that life 'out there' is real and highly varied, such life is unlikely to acknowledge us.

Read More from Lloyd Pye: http://www.lloydpye.com/essay_sciencewrong.pdf
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September 23, 2016, 05:48:30 PM
 #16

Science is based upon evidence, which is convincing to anyone who bothers to look at it

Religion is based upon faith (belief without evidence, and contrary to the evidence)

Do we really need to discuss this further?

The claims you make are unfounded propaganda with zero evidence to back them up... no debate needed
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September 23, 2016, 06:38:50 PM
 #17

There is no "Creation Theory." Creationism is not a theory at all. It is a religiously based assertion with no basis in fact.

protokol
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September 24, 2016, 12:18:11 PM
 #18

THE EMERGENCE OF DOMESTICATED PLANTS
Nearly all domesticated plants are believed to have appeared between 10,000 and 5,000 years ago...

I'm not going to get too much into this, but just lay out a few areas where your thinking is flawed.

First and foremost, you're making an initial mistake by using misleading evidence from what seems like a suspicious source (Nexus Magazine (2002)), and then making huge assumptions (Your "Starting Posits") to try and incorporate the views into a plausible theory.

I'll go through some of the questionable evidence:

1. The article states that there is no evidence of an evolutionary connection between flowering plants and their predecessors. This is false, here is an article (with a sourced paper from 2013) showing evidence to the contrary, a 'genomic doubling' : http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/origin-flowers-has-been-discovered/

2. The author has this strange idea that humans couldn't eat wild grains for years because they were too small and hard, he says they managed to miraculously change them 5-10,000 years ago. In fact people were eating wild grains well over 20,000 years ago. He doesn't take into account any rational explanation for how these grains evolved (such as ice ages/climate change/mutation/environmental change etc.), he just jumps straight at the "god/alien intervention" theory, as you have.

3. The article make more assumptions, that what it calls "directed crossbreeding" is an incredibly technical process, that couldn't have been achieved by "primitive barbarians". In fact, this crossbreeding would have almost certainly started in the form of artificial selection/selective breeding, and is actually a very simple and easy concept to observe. I have no doubt that primitive humans that were capable of planting crops could have started selective breeding within a few generations. If a beneficial mutation occurred in a plant (higher yield/larger fruit etc) then this knowledge could have been applied straight away to exploit the mutation, creating huge amounts of crops even within a single human generation.

Another relevant theory (which I think you touch on in your post) is the population explosion and more sophisticated behaviour in humans that occurred about 50,000 years ago. Is it not much more plausible that this increase in population, intelligence and social sophistication allowed humans to start experimenting with plants, noting which ones grew well in certain conditions etc? There is strong evidence for their hunting techniques improving at this time, and if we look at some ancient tribes, they have incredibly specific knowledge about the plants and animals that inhabit their environment.

So to sum up, although your theory is certainly an interesting one, I don't believe there is anywhere near enough evidence for it. You are showing strong signs of confirmation bias, trying to fit selective evidence and theories into what I suspect is some sort of religious/supernatural worldview.
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September 24, 2016, 01:08:00 PM
 #19

Spendulus:
That is a grossly ignorant and lazy analysis of the facts being presented.
.....

I did not see hardly any "facts."
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September 24, 2016, 02:18:09 PM
 #20

There is no "Creation Theory." Creationism is not a theory at all. It is a religiously based assertion with no basis in fact.

Theories come from people who make theories. There are loads of potential theories that simply haven't been made yet, some of which will never be made, simply because nobody makes them.

The fact that creation existed is shown by entropy theory, and the fact that high complexity exists. If there were no creation... if everything had always existed... entropy would have reduced complexity in the universe to a blob of super simplicity long ago.

Cool

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