Bitcoins users are what is holding Bitcoin back

[ObscureBean]

the code of bitcoin will not grow legs, walk into your local town and ask your local retailer to accept it.
without HUMANS getting off their ass and doing something to ask retailers in their town to accept bitcoin, users will just be waiting forever for some unicorn magic to speed up mass adoption so they can have a full bitcoin lifestyle, as oppose to an occasional use.

The people that will directly benefit from promoting Bitcoin to retailers and service providers are the holders of Bitcoin - more users the price rises.

The very decentralised nature of Bitcoin means that people have to go out of their own way to promote Bitcoin off their own back seeing no return - this is not a good use of time.

I, for example, am in sales, I work for companies all over the world on a freelance basis - I would love to promote Bitcoin in a sales role calling around retailers getting them to accept Bitcoin but whose going to pay me to do this? I can't do it for free - if I had enough Bitcoin to bank on the price doubling then OK but I have less than 5 BTC currently so the price would need to multiply hugely just to cover a year of living expenses.

There is no central pot to pay people to provide services to further Bitcoin - going back to my original post Bitcoin users are holding Bitcoin back - I'm referring to the big users, they need to invest in furthering Bitcoin because there is no one else to do this.

I think my point about escrow has been taken out of context.

I have to say I'm amazed at how you seem to be completely unaware of the self-centeredness of your logic. The sense of entitlement in your comments is blatant and yet your tone is one of righteousness rather than self-righteousness  
No doctrine, no matter how entrenched, can survive the test of time unchanged, you constantly have to make amendments to reflect new understanding.
Bitcoin adds to the system, its benefits are system-wide. A few will profit the most but that's just how the human world works.

[legdunes]

the code of bitcoin will not grow legs, walk into your local town and ask your local retailer to accept it.
without HUMANS getting off their ass and doing something to ask retailers in their town to accept bitcoin, users will just be waiting forever for some unicorn magic to speed up mass adoption so they can have a full bitcoin lifestyle, as oppose to an occasional use.

The people that will directly benefit from promoting Bitcoin to retailers and service providers are the holders of Bitcoin - more users the price rises.

The very decentralised nature of Bitcoin means that people have to go out of their own way to promote Bitcoin off their own back seeing no return - this is not a good use of time.

I, for example, am in sales, I work for companies all over the world on a freelance basis - I would love to promote Bitcoin in a sales role calling around retailers getting them to accept Bitcoin but whose going to pay me to do this? I can't do it for free - if I had enough Bitcoin to bank on the price doubling then OK but I have less than 5 BTC currently so the price would need to multiply hugely just to cover a year of living expenses.

There is no central pot to pay people to provide services to further Bitcoin - going back to my original post Bitcoin users are holding Bitcoin back - I'm referring to the big users, they need to invest in furthering Bitcoin because there is no one else to do this.

I think my point about escrow has been taken out of context.

I have to say I'm amazed at how you seem to be completely unaware of the self-centeredness of your logic. The sense of entitlement in your comments is blatant and yet your tone is one of righteousness rather than self-righteousness  
No doctrine, no matter how entrenched, can survive the test of time unchanged, you constantly have to make amendments to reflect new understanding.
Bitcoin adds to the system, its benefits are system-wide. A few will profit the most but that's just how the human world works.

That's human nature to look out for what's best for yourself. There are a few who don't think like this but not enough to make a difference. Bitcoin could be made to succeed if the people with the ability to used their resources to offer better alternatives to bring people on board offering better salaries in Bitcoin then they could otherwise make. This in turn will benefit them instead of holding, less can be worth more.

I have no sense of entitlement whatsoever but of course I will do whats best for me.

If I had to choose my current salary doing exactly what I am doing now or the exact equivalent in Bitcoin, leading to Bitcoins growth I would choose Bitcoin. But if the choice was now or now minus 5% I would not choose the Bitcoin route even though I preferred it out of principal.

I'm trying to get the point across that this is how most people think and how most people provide their best results and the only way to turn this from selfishness in to a benefit for Bitcoin is to take advantage of this mindset, only relatively few have the Bitcoin resource to do this. You could say 'buy some Bitcoin and go ahead' but again that is not the point.

[franky1]

This goes for any business of course but that's not the point. The point is if I and lots of other people started businesses with the aims of promoting Bitcoin and getting more users and were successful I would only benefit by making a profit - I don't need Bitcoin to do this and I don't have enough Bitcoin to benefit from a big price rise. The main benefactors of this would be the big holders of Bitcoin if the prise rose, therefore the only way Bitcoin can gain traction quickly is if these users and these users alone used their Bitcoin to pay others to provide services for the advancement of Bitcoin.

all im hearing from you is benefits of a FIAT price rise.
im guessing you are not thinking of the benefits of how many loaves of bread you can buy... and only thinking of the fiat you can grab. and not realising fiat wont buy you as much bread

in short.. if you can get your local store to accept bitcoin. you wont care about the fiat price because you just hand over bitcoin to the merchant.
eg now buy 3 loaves of bread for 0.01btc and in the future get more loaves of bread for your 0.01btc without even caring what the fiat valuation is. without needing to find a way to cash out to then buy bread with fiat.
you benefit by not having to care about negative fiat interest rate.
you benefit by not having to care about banker booms and busts.
you benefit by not having to care about banks losing your retirement.

but if all you care about is the fiat price so one day you can cash out and hold onto fiat.. then your missing the point of bitcoin totally

[legdunes]

This goes for any business of course but that's not the point. The point is if I and lots of other people started businesses with the aims of promoting Bitcoin and getting more users and were successful I would only benefit by making a profit - I don't need Bitcoin to do this and I don't have enough Bitcoin to benefit from a big price rise. The main benefactors of this would be the big holders of Bitcoin if the prise rose, therefore the only way Bitcoin can gain traction quickly is if these users and these users alone used their Bitcoin to pay others to provide services for the advancement of Bitcoin.

all im hearing from you is benefits of a FIAT price rise.
im guessing you are not thinking of the benefits of how many loaves of bread you can buy... and only thinking of the fiat you can grab. and not realising fiat wont buy you as much bread

in short.. if you can get your local store to accept bitcoin. you wont care about the fiat price because you just hand over bitcoin to the merchant.
eg now buy 3 loaves of bread for 0.01btc and in the future get more loaves of bread for your 0.01btc without even caring what the fiat valuation is. without needing to find a way to cash out to then buy bread with fiat.
you benefit by not having to care about negative fiat interest rate.
you benefit by not having to care about banker booms and busts.
you benefit by not having to care about banks losing your retirement.

but if all you care about is the fiat price so one day you can cash out and hold onto fiat.. then your missing the point of bitcoin totally

Right now the price of Bitcoin to fiat is all that matters, for most people on a tight budget they will do what's best for now. People need a better alternative to move to Bitcoin immediately, where they will see the benefits straight away not in 5 or 10 years.

Using bitcoin as a store of value is fair enough but it would flourish as a currency and grow significantly more.

[franky1]

Right now the price of Bitcoin to fiat is all that matters, for most people on a tight budget they will do what's best for now. People need a better alternative to move to Bitcoin immediately, where they will see the benefits straight away not in 5 or 10 years.

Using bitcoin as a store of value is fair enough but it would flourish as a currency and grow significantly more.

and if you want your local store to accept bitcoin.. dont wait for the magic fairy tales of rich dudes on horses to come riding into your town.
go to your local independant store and talk to them about bitcoin, costs nothing to talk

[legdunes]

Right now the price of Bitcoin to fiat is all that matters, for most people on a tight budget they will do what's best for now. People need a better alternative to move to Bitcoin immediately, where they will see the benefits straight away not in 5 or 10 years.

Using bitcoin as a store of value is fair enough but it would flourish as a currency and grow significantly more.

and if you want your local store to accept bitcoin.. dont wait for the magic fairy tales of rich dudes on horses to come riding into your town.
go to your local independant store and talk to them about bitcoin, costs nothing to talk

Haha but that's not going to directly benefit me though is it? Of course I speak to the odd shop every now and then but that's not going to offer the big shift we need.

[Wind_FURY]

The statement is more general but since you singled out the argument to only about escrow then let us focus on it. Escrow services = infrastructure. That is what I was trying to say. For Bitcoin to go smoothly from one hand to another without any problems of scamming from the payee and the payer, we need effective infrastructure to be made. Also yes I am aware that Bitcoin is not an AI and it cannot program its own escrow, but remember Bitcoin was also coded by a human, set up by a human and as you said humans need to vet other humans. So building more code on top of the Bitcoin protocol to make it run more effectively is needed. Isn't it the whole idea?

yep and as the title says bitcoin users are what is holding Bitcoin back, because it needs users to build the infrastructure

Yes I can see that. But do not forget that not all the users are capable of building the infrastructure. Most of the users of Bitcoin are ordinary people who just want to use because it is interesting and useful to them or they think it is a good investment vehicle so they speculate in it. So it would be unfair to say that the users are holding it back. Remember without the users interested in it, it will not go forward in the first place.