Bitcoins users are what is holding Bitcoin back

[Sharma]

I don't think that something is holding it back Bitcoin is doing very well and growing steadily imo,but i agree that things could be even better.About the safety as long as we have the option to use escrow there is nothing to afraid and we are safe,the only problem is that many newbies are not aware of it.

Yes a newbie comes here and start blaming us.We have been using bitcoin for years and most of us are using it since its inception.First op must spend some time here and learn things

[davis196]

If you think about this it is pretty obvious that the mind set and mentality of the majority of Bitcoins users is what is holding Bitcoin back and what could be the downfall of Bitcoin in the long run.

Everyone is so scared of being scammed and go to great lengths to try and 'help' others not to get scammed that it makes Bitcoin an unattractive payment method for shops to accept. Escrow is one of the most absurd things about Bitcoin - what happened to buyer beware? Now it is seller AND buyer beware as you still can't fully trust the escrow. While I accept that if I want to sell something as a new member I have to use escrow - fine for cheap items, I would not risk selling something expensive and sending it to the buyer until the funds were firmly in my possession, this is how it has always been and how it should remain. The buyer should be the one to take on the risk - they can decide not to do this and move on, that is also fine but the buyer should not be able to dictate terms to the seller, it should be the other way around. The buyer is not forced to buy.

Also the method of buying Bitcoin is tedious at best. Until we can effortlessly buy Bitcoin with a credit card - without having to make an account at an exchange, Bitcoin will not reach its full potential, I know I have spoken to friends who don't touch Bitcoin as they cant buy it as they could gold for example.

Until Bitcoin is treated like any other currency or commodity it will not become what it should be.

Stop holding it back, a few people being scammed (usually down to their own stupidity) is and can be for the greater good. I not talking about blatant theft, if someone buys Bitcoin from a new member, with no history, no trust and no proof then it is their fault.

You are right,but i don`t think that escrow is such a problem.

Buying bitcoins is really a pain in the a** and this is what stops bitcoin growth.

Scammers are everywhere.Most of the scammers are not bitcoin related.They steal fiat money.

[TomPlatz]

If you think about this it is pretty obvious that the mind set and mentality of the majority of Bitcoins users is what is holding Bitcoin back and what could be the downfall of Bitcoin in the long run.

Everyone is so scared of being scammed and go to great lengths to try and 'help' others not to get scammed that it makes Bitcoin an unattractive payment method for shops to accept. Escrow is one of the most absurd things about Bitcoin - what happened to buyer beware? Now it is seller AND buyer beware as you still can't fully trust the escrow. While I accept that if I want to sell something as a new member I have to use escrow - fine for cheap items, I would not risk selling something expensive and sending it to the buyer until the funds were firmly in my possession, this is how it has always been and how it should remain. The buyer should be the one to take on the risk - they can decide not to do this and move on, that is also fine but the buyer should not be able to dictate terms to the seller, it should be the other way around. The buyer is not forced to buy.

Also the method of buying Bitcoin is tedious at best. Until we can effortlessly buy Bitcoin with a credit card - without having to make an account at an exchange, Bitcoin will not reach its full potential, I know I have spoken to friends who don't touch Bitcoin as they cant buy it as they could gold for example.

Until Bitcoin is treated like any other currency or commodity it will not become what it should be.

Stop holding it back, a few people being scammed (usually down to their own stupidity) is and can be for the greater good. I not talking about blatant theft, if someone buys Bitcoin from a new member, with no history, no trust and no proof then it is their fault.

I can buy Bitcoin easier than I can buy Gold, yes I have to use an exchange but they take a credit card and I can do it very quickly. Yes I get ripped off $36 per $1000 by the exchange plus unavoidably ripped off that it costs me 1.36 times more to convert my New Zealand dollars.
So what, what will it matter in two years time.
If I buy gold and want to purchase something with it, such as $2000 crypto miners, I cant do it, cant even buy an ice cream with it and nor will I ever be likely to, but maybe I can with Bitcoin in the not too distant future.
Yes I used Bitcoin converted to Dash and purchased some crypto miners, they got the funds, then they sent them. Some $16000 worth at least.
Sometimes you just have to trust with some level of prior research to justify up your intended actions. Can't have your bread buttered on both sides, if you want the advantages of what Bitcoin brings, there is an expectation that you have to do the leg work of providing your own protection, or do you want to "mummy credit card company" to protect you forever more?
Bitcoin is hard, until you find avenues to make it easier, most are not, yet !
Here is your chance to make it easier, set up an online coin buying service using CC or buy some Bitcoin ATMs and spread them around.

[lister storm]

I don't think that something is holding it back Bitcoin is doing very well and growing steadily imo,but i agree that things could be even better.About the safety as long as we have the option to use escrow there is nothing to afraid and we are safe,the only problem is that many newbies are not aware of it.

Yes a newbie comes here and start blaming us.We have been using bitcoin for years and most of us are using it since its inception.First op must spend some time here and learn things

i use bitcoins for a while right now too, though i dont use a lot of it now, it is more as an investment now

[The Sceptical Chymist]

The ridiculous amount of scams don't make any difference.  Tons of scams happen everyday, all day, with fiat. 

The problem I see with bitcoin (gee, this has never been a topic here before, so why the deja vu?) is that there's NO FUCKING REASON to spend it.  You can use fiat so much more easily, and with greater protection, than bitcoin.  I get paid in US dollars, right?  Well, why would I buy another currency just to spend it ON THINGS THAT ARE PRICED IN USD?

I apologize for my caps rage, but that's the big elephant who just took a shit in the room.  Everyone sees the elephant and can smell the shit, but no one wants to be the one to mention it.  Bitcoin is superfluous.  I do think it's a good investment as long as everyone agrees that it has value, but as a currency it sucks the big one.

[franky1]

The ridiculous amount of scams don't make any difference.  Tons of scams happen everyday, all day, with fiat.  

The problem I see with bitcoin (gee, this has never been a topic here before, so why the deja vu?) is that there's NO FUCKING REASON to spend it.  You can use fiat so much more easily, and with greater protection, than bitcoin.  I get paid in US dollars, right?  Well, why would I buy another currency just to spend it ON THINGS THAT ARE PRICED IN USD?

I apologize for my caps rage, but that's the big elephant who just took a shit in the room.  Everyone sees the elephant and can smell the shit, but no one wants to be the one to mention it.  Bitcoin is superfluous.  I do think it's a good investment as long as everyone agrees that it has value, but as a currency it sucks the big one.

as for pricing goods in bitcoin
much like the chinese pricing goods in dollars for Apple to buy microchips in dollars and sell to customers in dollars and pay staff in dollars so that america doesnt rely on the chinese yuan(even if the goods are initially priced in yuan behind the scenes).
much like the middle east pricing oil in dollars for fuel companies to buy in dollars and sell to customers in dollars and pay staff in dollars so that america doesnt rely on the Saudi riyal(even if the oil is initially priced in riyal behind the scenes).

it takes time for suppliers to price goods in bitcoin and merchants to buy goods from suppliers in bitcoin to sell to customers for bitcoin and pay staff in bitcoin to bring bitcoin into a circular mass adoption usage that no longer relies on fiat. so that more people can happily live only spending bitcoin and earning bitcoin as a real lifestyle choice (some people are but only a few, it will grow slowly)

its better to think of it this way: does the euro seem pointless and useless because a Yank only see's a chicago pizza priced in dollars.

[franky1]

The ridiculous amount of scams don't make any difference.  Tons of scams happen everyday, all day, with fiat.  

The problem I see with bitcoin (gee, this has never been a topic here before, so why the deja vu?) is that there's NO FUCKING REASON to spend it.  You can use fiat so much more easily, and with greater protection, than bitcoin.  I get paid in US dollars, right?  Well, why would I buy another currency just to spend it ON THINGS THAT ARE PRICED IN USD?

I apologize for my caps rage, but that's the big elephant who just took a shit in the room.  Everyone sees the elephant and can smell the shit, but no one wants to be the one to mention it.  Bitcoin is superfluous.  I do think it's a good investment as long as everyone agrees that it has value, but as a currency it sucks the big one.

lets first talk about fiat
on a good day, you can rely on banks to hold your funds with the blanket of protection that if proven that someone other then you takes funds without authorisation. The bank will just magic more money into existence to compensate you.. which happens to a person once every 5 years on average.

but every day, banks magic money into existence in many ways(mainly loans). meaning that a $10 you have now, would have bought you 30 loaves of bread 15 years ago, but will only buy you 5 loaves of bread this year. in 30+ years(whenever you retire) may only buy you 1 loaf of bread.
this is not due to some hacker directly stealing from your account.

on a bad day the banks could take some of your money without your acceptance. first they start with fee's then they start with negative interest.
ensuring your left with a bigger loss to buy even less loaves of bread when you retire.

on a very bad day they can go bankrupt and only give you pennies on the dollar (their 'protection' has cut off limits)
look at the Zimbabwe dollar, look at greece.. how many loaves of bread can you buy now with a set amount of Zimbabwe dollars that you could 20 years ago, how many loaves of bread can you get in greece now that you could have just 5 years ago

in short saving fiat for retirement will never give you back more then you have put in.(if you use the breadloaf value measure) even if they gave you $20 for every $10 you put in, it still will equal less loaves of bread when you retire


with the events of 2007-2008(banks go bankrupt, banks negative interest, bank debt, retirement investments evaporating) which woke some people up to the 'bad day' side of fiat.

its NOT about putting ALL your funds into bitcoin today.
yes we are still in the early stages and its silly to tell people to drop FIAT to go 100% gold, or 100% offshore or 100% bitcoin. but just dont go 100% fiat, because fiat buys you less loaves of bread as time goes on. bitcoin is only used by 0.3% of the world occasionally, and even less as a full time living-lifestyle choice. meaning bitcoin is not useless to spend direct.. but still in the early days of mass adoption

its about in realistic terms allowing anyone, even the unbanked to have an offshore place to hold value that is not storing $10 as $10 but as its own value to hedge against fiat value, much like the rich hand over fiat to off shore trusts measured in assets, but without the headaches of 2-5 days to cash out the funds from the 'institutional trusts' they set up.

its about having a safer place to store rainy day funds to save up for later knowing you can spend them without as much of a headache of dealing with institutional trusts. its about thinking of the future when you know people wont be able to rely on banks as much. its about having a contingency and not putting all your eggs into one basket(greece suffered by relying on euro banks as the only egg basket, and now they are hurt).

right now bitcoin is the middle ground between having an independent 'trust' of value, with the digital platform to spend it on goods direct.. without having to directly cash out, taking 2-5 days to then buy goods. which is the problem institutional trusts have.
right now bitcoin is the middle ground between having an asset of deflationary value, with the digital platform to spend it.. without having to find a specialist to barter to cash out, taking time and labour to then buy goods. which is the problem physical assets(gold/antiques) have.

[franky1]

now with all that said. here is my point.

the code of bitcoin will not grow legs, walk into your local town and ask your local retailer to accept it.
without HUMANS getting off their ass and doing something to ask retailers in their town to accept bitcoin, users will just be waiting forever for some unicorn magic to speed up mass adoption so they can have a full bitcoin lifestyle, as oppose to an occasional use.

much like if FIAT collapsed, suddenly people get off their ass and start asking retailers to barter. rather then hoping a bar of gold grows legs and does it for them

bitcoin is better then gold exchanging properties(not lugging it around)
bitcoin is better then "institutional trusts" exchanging properties(not requiring institutions to manage)

but it does require people to interact.
bitcoins code is great. but people seem to want to sit on their hands and think the code will make real world changes to speed things along without the real world getting involved

so if you want mass adoption to speed up so that you can see products in YOUR home town to be priced in bitcoin. YOU have to do something

[Wind_FURY]

If you think about this it is pretty obvious that the mind set and mentality of the majority of Bitcoins users is what is holding Bitcoin back and what could be the downfall of Bitcoin in the long run.

Everyone is so scared of being scammed and go to great lengths to try and 'help' others not to get scammed that it makes Bitcoin an unattractive payment method for shops to accept. Escrow is one of the most absurd things about Bitcoin - what happened to buyer beware? Now it is seller AND buyer beware as you still can't fully trust the escrow. While I accept that if I want to sell something as a new member I have to use escrow - fine for cheap items, I would not risk selling something expensive and sending it to the buyer until the funds were firmly in my possession, this is how it has always been and how it should remain. The buyer should be the one to take on the risk - they can decide not to do this and move on, that is also fine but the buyer should not be able to dictate terms to the seller, it should be the other way around. The buyer is not forced to buy.

Also the method of buying Bitcoin is tedious at best. Until we can effortlessly buy Bitcoin with a credit card - without having to make an account at an exchange, Bitcoin will not reach its full potential, I know I have spoken to friends who don't touch Bitcoin as they cant buy it as they could gold for example.

Until Bitcoin is treated like any other currency or commodity it will not become what it should be.

Stop holding it back, a few people being scammed (usually down to their own stupidity) is and can be for the greater good. I not talking about blatant theft, if someone buys Bitcoin from a new member, with no history, no trust and no proof then it is their fault.

In your whole post I cannot see how it is the Bitcoin users' fault and how they are holding it back. Escrow is a necessity to avoid getting scammed because there is a lack of effective infrastructure to make payments online with Bitcoin to go more smoothly without payee or the payer being scammed. The lack of infrastructure is not the users' fault. The same with buying Bitcoins, the infrastructure available is already good but it is still lacking.

If you also mean that it is the users' fault that Bitcoin is being held back because they are hoarding it, you are barking on the wrong tree. Look at the Bitcoin rich list and blame them. The ordinary users usually do not own more than $5000 worth of Bitcoins.

[franky1]

In your whole post I cannot see how it is the Bitcoin users' fault and how they are holding it back. Escrow is a necessity to avoid getting scammed because there is a lack of effective infrastructure to make payments online with Bitcoin to go more smoothly without payee or the payer being scammed. The lack of infrastructure is not the users' fault. The same with buying Bitcoins, the infrastructure available is already good but it is still lacking.

If you also mean that it is the users' fault that Bitcoin is being held back because they are hoarding it, you are barking on the wrong tree. Look at the Bitcoin rich list and blame them. The ordinary users usually do not own more than $5000 worth of Bitcoins.

if the problem is simply escrow
the answer is that as a human. a human needs to set up an escrow service. a human needs to code an escrow service. a human needs to vet other humans.
bitcoin is just code. its the human need for humans to do things when interacting with humans that is the problem

humans=users

bitcoin is not an A.I, it cannot program its own escrow. it cannot have eyes or feet to deliver goods on users behalf to ensure its received.

[NorrisK]

If you think about this it is pretty obvious that the mind set and mentality of the majority of Bitcoins users is what is holding Bitcoin back and what could be the downfall of Bitcoin in the long run.

Everyone is so scared of being scammed and go to great lengths to try and 'help' others not to get scammed that it makes Bitcoin an unattractive payment method for shops to accept. Escrow is one of the most absurd things about Bitcoin - what happened to buyer beware? Now it is seller AND buyer beware as you still can't fully trust the escrow. While I accept that if I want to sell something as a new member I have to use escrow - fine for cheap items, I would not risk selling something expensive and sending it to the buyer until the funds were firmly in my possession, this is how it has always been and how it should remain. The buyer should be the one to take on the risk - they can decide not to do this and move on, that is also fine but the buyer should not be able to dictate terms to the seller, it should be the other way around. The buyer is not forced to buy.

Also the method of buying Bitcoin is tedious at best. Until we can effortlessly buy Bitcoin with a credit card - without having to make an account at an exchange, Bitcoin will not reach its full potential, I know I have spoken to friends who don't touch Bitcoin as they cant buy it as they could gold for example.

Until Bitcoin is treated like any other currency or commodity it will not become what it should be.

Stop holding it back, a few people being scammed (usually down to their own stupidity) is and can be for the greater good. I not talking about blatant theft, if someone buys Bitcoin from a new member, with no history, no trust and no proof then it is their fault.

I don't agree with a lot you are talking about. The examples you are giving is also not only about bitcoin users, but mainly about bitcoin service providers and legislators.

Escrow is not a new thing for bitcoin only.. It is actually used a lot all over the world for many high value transactions (such as buying a house) and actually is a necessity to protect both the buyer and the seller. On this forums it does require more trust than for fiat services where a bank may handle the escrow, but common sense alone does not always protects you.

As far as buying bitcoins, I can use my debit card to instantly buy bitcoins here in The Netherlands. It is not tedious at all, it is very easy and conveniant.

[Wind_FURY]

In your whole post I cannot see how it is the Bitcoin users' fault and how they are holding it back. Escrow is a necessity to avoid getting scammed because there is a lack of effective infrastructure to make payments online with Bitcoin to go more smoothly without payee or the payer being scammed. The lack of infrastructure is not the users' fault. The same with buying Bitcoins, the infrastructure available is already good but it is still lacking.

If you also mean that it is the users' fault that Bitcoin is being held back because they are hoarding it, you are barking on the wrong tree. Look at the Bitcoin rich list and blame them. The ordinary users usually do not own more than $5000 worth of Bitcoins.

if the problem is simply escrow
the answer is that as a human. a human needs to set up an escrow service. a human needs to code an escrow service. a human needs to vet other humans.
bitcoin is just code. its the human need for humans to do things when interacting with humans that is the problem

humans=users

bitcoin is not an A.I, it cannot program its own escrow. it cannot have eyes or feet to deliver goods on users behalf to ensure its received.

The statement is more general but since you singled out the argument to only about escrow then let us focus on it. Escrow services = infrastructure. That is what I was trying to say. For Bitcoin to go smoothly from one hand to another without any problems of scamming from the payee and the payer, we need effective infrastructure to be made. Also yes I am aware that Bitcoin is not an AI and it cannot program its own escrow, but remember Bitcoin was also coded by a human, set up by a human and as you said humans need to vet other humans. So building more code on top of the Bitcoin protocol to make it run more effectively is needed. Isn't it the whole idea?

[franky1]

The statement is more general but since you singled out the argument to only about escrow then let us focus on it. Escrow services = infrastructure. That is what I was trying to say. For Bitcoin to go smoothly from one hand to another without any problems of scamming from the payee and the payer, we need effective infrastructure to be made. Also yes I am aware that Bitcoin is not an AI and it cannot program its own escrow, but remember Bitcoin was also coded by a human, set up by a human and as you said humans need to vet other humans. So building more code on top of the Bitcoin protocol to make it run more effectively is needed. Isn't it the whole idea?

yep and as the title says bitcoin users are what is holding Bitcoin back, because it needs users to build the infrastructure

[ObscureBean]

Escrow is one of the most absurd things about Bitcoin - what happened to buyer beware? Now it is seller AND buyer beware as you still can't fully trust the escrow. While I accept that if I want to sell something as a new member I have to use escrow - fine for cheap items, I would not risk selling something expensive and sending it to the buyer until the funds were firmly in my possession, this is how it has always been and how it should remain. The buyer should be the one to take on the risk - they can decide not to do this and move on, that is also fine but the buyer should not be able to dictate terms to the seller, it should be the other way around. The buyer is not forced to buy.

This logic does not make any sense, how is the seller affected by having an escrow option made available to the buyer? I don't see how the buyer could possibly 'dictate' the terms of the trade, the seller can simply refuse to sell if he doesn't want escrow.  Your reasoning is very one-sided and seem to only cater for the seller's need to make money. You don't want to trust the buyer but you want the buyer to trust you. You may be an honest person but there is no way for people to know that for certain.

[legdunes]

the code of bitcoin will not grow legs, walk into your local town and ask your local retailer to accept it.
without HUMANS getting off their ass and doing something to ask retailers in their town to accept bitcoin, users will just be waiting forever for some unicorn magic to speed up mass adoption so they can have a full bitcoin lifestyle, as oppose to an occasional use.

The people that will directly benefit from promoting Bitcoin to retailers and service providers are the holders of Bitcoin - more users the price rises.

The very decentralised nature of Bitcoin means that people have to go out of their own way to promote Bitcoin off their own back seeing no return - this is not a good use of time.

I, for example, am in sales, I work for companies all over the world on a freelance basis - I would love to promote Bitcoin in a sales role calling around retailers getting them to accept Bitcoin but whose going to pay me to do this? I can't do it for free - if I had enough Bitcoin to bank on the price doubling then OK but I have less than 5 BTC currently so the price would need to multiply hugely just to cover a year of living expenses.

There is no central pot to pay people to provide services to further Bitcoin - going back to my original post Bitcoin users are holding Bitcoin back - I'm referring to the big users, they need to invest in furthering Bitcoin because there is no one else to do this.

I think my point about escrow has been taken out of context.

[franky1]

The people that will directly benefit from promoting Bitcoin to retailers and service providers are the holders of Bitcoin - more users the price rises.

The very decentralised nature of Bitcoin means that people have to go out of their own way to promote Bitcoin off their own back seeing no return - this is not a good use of time.

I, for example, am in sales, I work for companies all over the world on a freelance basis - I would love to promote Bitcoin in a sales role calling around retailers getting them to accept Bitcoin but whose going to pay me to do this? I can't do it for free - if I had enough Bitcoin to bank on the price doubling then OK but I have less than 5 BTC currently so the price would need to multiply hugely just to cover a year of living expenses.

There is no central pot to pay people to provide services to further Bitcoin - going back to my original post Bitcoin users are holding Bitcoin back - I'm referring to the big users, they need to invest in furthering Bitcoin because there is no one else to do this.

I think my point about escrow has been taken out of context.

bitcoin is a currency.. not a business
dollar is a currency.. not a business

dollar doesnt have a pot for you to promote dollar.. people need to create businesses and offer services to earn their dollar

core are doing fine. they set up a business(blockstream) and have contracts to help code altcoins for private companies (insurance and banks) and allowing them time to code bitcoin on the side.

i digressed, so lets highlight the 2 businesses you mentioned.. escrows and payment gateways.

you dont need bitcoin to start these businesses.
because for payment gateways, retailers GIVE you the bitcoin, you sell 99% of it to give fiat to the retailer, you keep 1%
because for escrow services, buyers GIVE you the bitcoin, you hold it and later give 99% of it to the seller, you keep 1%

no one is asking anyone to get on a plane and spend wild amounts of cash to get a retailer to use bitcoin. but if you want your local shop
to accept bitcoin then next time you shop at your local shop (no extra cost) introduce them to bitcoin.
its like any job. you never get pre-paid.
you do some work and get paid at the end of the week or month..
dont do the work, dont get paid you get sacked.

if you want to get paid in bitcoin you need to do the work.
many people have been successful setting up their own payment gateways and escrow services..
its just NOT automatically handed to them on a plate, prefunded. all wrapped up in coded heaven

[legdunes]

The people that will directly benefit from promoting Bitcoin to retailers and service providers are the holders of Bitcoin - more users the price rises.

The very decentralised nature of Bitcoin means that people have to go out of their own way to promote Bitcoin off their own back seeing no return - this is not a good use of time.

I, for example, am in sales, I work for companies all over the world on a freelance basis - I would love to promote Bitcoin in a sales role calling around retailers getting them to accept Bitcoin but whose going to pay me to do this? I can't do it for free - if I had enough Bitcoin to bank on the price doubling then OK but I have less than 5 BTC currently so the price would need to multiply hugely just to cover a year of living expenses.

There is no central pot to pay people to provide services to further Bitcoin - going back to my original post Bitcoin users are holding Bitcoin back - I'm referring to the big users, they need to invest in furthering Bitcoin because there is no one else to do this.

I think my point about escrow has been taken out of context.

bitcoin is a currency.. not a business
dollar is a currency.. not a business

dollar doesnt have a pot for you to promote dollar.. people need to create businesses and offer services to earn their dollar

core are doing fine. they set up a business(blockstream) and have contracts to help code altcoins for private companies (insurance and banks) and allowing them time to code bitcoin on the side.

i digressed, so lets highlight the 2 businesses you mentioned.. escrows and payment gateways.

you dont need bitcoin to start these businesses.
because for payment gateways, retailers GIVE you the bitcoin, you sell 99% of it to give fiat to the retailer, you keep 1%
because for escrow services, buyers GIVE you the bitcoin, you hold it and later give 99% of it to the seller, you keep 1%

no one is asking anyone to get on a plane and spend wild amounts of cash to get a retailer to use bitcoin. but if you want your local shop
to accept bitcoin then next time you shop at your local shop (no extra cost) introduce them to bitcoin.
its like any job. you never get pre-paid.
you do some work and get paid at the end of the week or month..
dont do the work, dont get paid you get sacked.

if you want to get paid in bitcoin you need to do the work.
many people have been successful setting up their own payment gateways and escrow services..
its just NOT automatically handed to them on a plate, prefunded. all wrapped up in coded heaven

Perhaps you didn't get my point - you don't need to promote the dollar for people to use it as they already do. Bitcoin needs promotion, however people need paying to promote it whether they are payed in Bitcoin or any other currency. The only people that will benefit from Bitcoin being more widely accepted (financially) are the big (and to a lesser extent small) Bitcoin holders. As with any business the ones that stand to make the most have to risk the most.

[tiggytomb]

I don't think it can be said that all bitcoin users are holding it back, without bitcoin users there would be no bitcoin.
There are just a bunch of bad folk as there is in any group that give it a bad name.

You can purchase bitcoin with a credit in numerous places, Coinbase, Circle, etc.

[franky1]

Perhaps you didn't get my point - you don't need to promote the dollar for people to use it as they already do. Bitcoin needs promotion, however people need paying to promote it whether they are payed in Bitcoin or any other currency. The only people that will benefit from Bitcoin being more widely accepted (financially) are the big (and to a lesser extent small) Bitcoin holders. As with any business the ones that stand to make the most have to risk the most.

and the big holders are doing it.
coinbase, bitpay.. have 300,000+ merchants
localbitcoin.. does millions of "escrows" a year

it is not because bitcoin itself paid them first.
it is not because bitcoin grew arms and made the businesses.

is because PEOPLE started businesses
so join them.. risk the most by talking to people and start a business (cost is negligible even for the unemployed) then work in the hopes of getting paid. rather then get paid in the hopes of getting work

you are just as much part of bitcoin as anyone else. it does not matter what your bitcoin balance is. you can start a business with no bitcoin, you can start a business with no fiat.
you just need to not wait for other people to do it for you

[legdunes]

Perhaps you didn't get my point - you don't need to promote the dollar for people to use it as they already do. Bitcoin needs promotion, however people need paying to promote it whether they are payed in Bitcoin or any other currency. The only people that will benefit from Bitcoin being more widely accepted (financially) are the big (and to a lesser extent small) Bitcoin holders. As with any business the ones that stand to make the most have to risk the most.

is because PEOPLE started businesses
so join them.. risk the most by talking to people and start a business (cost is negligible even for the unemployed) then work in the hopes of getting paid. rather then get paid in the hopes of getting work

This goes for any business of course but that's not the point. The point is if I and lots of other people started businesses with the aims of promoting Bitcoin and getting more users and were successful I would only benefit by making a profit - I don't need Bitcoin to do this and I don't have enough Bitcoin to benefit from a big price rise. The main benefactors of this would be the big holders of Bitcoin if the prise rose, therefore the only way Bitcoin can gain traction quickly is if these users and these users alone used their Bitcoin to pay others to provide services for the advancement of Bitcoin.