Most common mistakes of amatuer Bitcoin sellers

[sbtctalk]

A friend sent me this earlier. Worth a read because it contains good advice.


http://www.844bankbtc.com/bitcoin-selling-mistakes/

Most common mistakes of amatuer Bitcoin sellers

Every day amateur bitcoin sellers post on one of the bitcoin forums about how they were trying to sell bitcoin and got scammed. These amateur sellers are commonly known as “windowlickers“. They lose their money, their bitcoin and still consider themselves smart enough to make money with bitcoin. The fact is most sellers lose more money than they make.

Here is the list of the most common mistakes amateurs make.

Selling bitcoin they can’t afford to lose. People often come into the forums talking about how they were scammed and now cannot pay bills. If you can’t afford to pay bills you shouldn’t be trading bitcoins. Even the best traders get scammed so plan to lose money.

Charging to little. Those profits are what keep you in business when prices fluctuate or you get scammed. Lower your prices to undercut your competition and you are cutting your own throat.

Accepting PayPal as a payment method. Yes, some people accept PayPal but they have a ton of experience and know tricks you don’t. If you accept Paypal you will get scammed, you will lose money and Paypal will come after you. Paypal can even take the money back out of your bank account and send you to collections/ruin your credit

Thinking PayPal friends and family is not reversible. Yes, it is reversible. If you search the trading forums you will find many windowlickers that have been scammed trying that. Then when you get scammed Paypal will look into your account. Paypal is smart enough to know that you don’t have hundreds of friends and family around the country sending you thousands of dollars. Your account will be frozen and you won’t be able to withdraw any money for 3-6 months. For the record EVERY form of Paypal payments are reversible.

Believing that anything you can say will help you win a Paypal dispute. Paypal doesn’t care what windowlickers say. The guarantee the buyers will be safe, not the sellers (it is in the Paypal terms that they don’t protect people selling bitcoin or other “digital goods and intagible items”) If the windowlickers were smart enough to win their dispute they wouldn’t have been accepting Paypal in the first place.
Taking Venmo/Skrill/Neteller. These suffer the same chargeback issues as Paypal but at a MUCH higher rate because they are even more infested with scammers than Paypal is.

Believing a website/forum can help and/or protect them.  Websites like LocalBitcoins and Paxful do what they can but they are understaffed and their primary concern is making money, not settling disputes or answering support tickets. The forums are full of other people just as clueless as you that have no power over the website. Understand you are on your own and expect 2-5 business days for a reply from support. Be prepared that the replies you get may not actually help you.

Believing reload cards like gift cards or reload cards are safe. They can be reversed and scammers do it all the time. Paypal MyCash cards and Amazon are the worst. There are also a lot of scams that will get your accounts shut down after the card has been loaded, you banned and a mark on your credit. Any money stored in the account will be locked and you will never see it again.

Trying to get cash off of reloadable or prepaid cards. Reloadable and prepaid cards are made to put cash on and then spend like a credit card. The way the card companies see it is that only idiots and money launderers try to put cash in and then take cash back out. This is one of the more common mistakes of an amateur and often causes accounts to be banned.

Releasing bitcoins without cash/payment being fully in your possession. Remember, most consumer based payment methods can be reversed.

Selling out of escrow. Hopefully you don’t really need an explanation why this is stupid.

Giving out personal information like bank account numbers or their phone number. There are tons of scams that use these. The professional sellers that do give this information out have safety features on their accounts to protect them.

Believing cash deposits are safe –  There are a number of scams that target bank accounts. These often end up with the police investigating the owner of the account and the bank’s banning the owner from their system (regardless of who is at fault).

Accepting credit cards. These are the easiest scammed of all because credit cards automatically default for the owner of the card and its up to the retailer/seller to prove that the purchase was one the card company approves of.

Believing that if a seller requires a photo ID they will be protected. Photo IDs that will fool police are easily bought online. Even if it is a real ID, most services do not care when they find out that the transaction involved bitcoin and will chargeback against the seller.

[Senor.Bla]

so to sum it up one could simply say, that you have to sell bitcoin offline and in an direct exchange for cash or goods? online it only makes sense as an professional exchange. or did i miss something?

[franky1]

so to sum it up one could simply say, that you have to sell bitcoin offline and in an direct exchange for cash or goods? online it only makes sense as an professional exchange. or did i miss something?

also worth adding
if you dont know enough about someone to slap them with a wet fish should they do you wrong. you might aswell stand in the road and throw mony at people you will never meet ever again.

there is only certain things to reduce risk of people wronging you (staying away from reversible payments) but even then its best to be able to know you can slap then when/if they do

[philiveyjr]

Does highlight most of the points. Would have probably been better to post this over at the Trading Discussion. As for the localbitcoins point, usually the replies and disputes are settled within a day. One thing you can do as a beginner to avoid disputes is to trade with people who have had previous trades on there.

[btvGainer]

so to sum it up one could simply say, that you have to sell bitcoin offline and in an direct exchange for cash or goods? online it only makes sense as an professional exchange. or did i miss something?

I believe in reverse.If you want to be safe,always use good reputed exchange for most of them have all required info about both buyer and sellers and you can contact them and ask for help in case you get scammed

[franky1]

Does highlight most of the points. Would have probably been better to post this over at the Trading Discussion. As for the localbitcoins point, usually the replies and disputes are settled within a day. One thing you can do as a beginner to avoid disputes is to trade with people who have had previous trades on there.

i think the point of the localbitcoins is to not think of it as a business with 100 customer service staff with a policy to answer calls in 5 minutes.
local bitcoins is a skeleton crew (like most bitcoin businesses) and to expect a few days reply but be extremely happy to get resolved in a day.
rather then saying expect it in a day and get frustrated if a few days. EG dont over promise and under deliver.. under promise and over deliver

[~Bitcoin~]

Find it worth reading, actually dealing with reversible payment methods are very risky for bitcoin related exchange. Whether you go with paypal, skrill, credit cards all are subjected to high risk specially in case of bitcoin sellers, buyers may chargeback and also run away with bitcoin which is hard to track or can't be reversed.

[sbtctalk]

so to sum it up one could simply say, that you have to sell bitcoin offline and in an direct exchange for cash or goods? online it only makes sense as an professional exchange. or did i miss something?

From that reading, it seems that the only way to deal is to deal with cash during Face 2 Face meetups. In fact, all forms of electronic payments are reversible, why is it so rampant in the bitcoin world?

I could also buy a 2nd hand camera from eBay, receive the goods and I deny I received the goods and I file a charge back since delivery confirmations are useless?

[3r197]

Why don't you guys use bithalo? www.bithalo.org
Double deposit escrow would solve almost everything mentioned here. If crooks can't profit, they will look elsewhere.



Heck David Zimbeck (the developer) has also come up with an interesting way to give bitcoin more anonymity because bithalo's 'engine' runs off bitmessage. Bitmessage is arguably more anonymous than Tor.
By sending a transaction through a bitmessage channel it makes it extremely hard to know the IP address that sent it because random bitmessage nodes broadcast the transaction for you!

[chixka000]

Very much precise but i am quite confused on the number 11 on the list i supposed that this one is all about selling bitcoin without having an escrow right? well im  sorry i just want to clear my minds out

[sbtctalk]

Why don't you guys use bithalo? www.bithalo.org
Double deposit escrow would solve almost everything mentioned here. If crooks can't profit, they will look elsewhere.



Heck David Zimbeck (the developer) has also come up with an interesting way to give bitcoin more anonymity because bithalo's 'engine' runs off bitmessage. Bitmessage is arguably more anonymous than Tor.
By sending a transaction through a bitmessage channel it makes it extremely hard to know the IP address that sent it because random bitmessage nodes broadcast the transaction for you!

I don't understand how that works. How popular is this service? Although they are many great breakthroughs and solid ideas in crypto, it is often the publicity and marketing aspect that failed.

[Kprawn]

There will be scammers on every platform, not just with Bitcoin. We live in a world where people want to take shortcuts to get money.

They would spend hours trying to think of creative ways to scam hard working people out of their money. The worst of these are the

people using charities to do this. I once seen a women walking around with a dead child, trying to get sympathy from tourist and begging

for money in Africa. The child was not even her own... just a object to get people's pity for them to open their wallets. 

[bitjoin]

The most common mistake of the amatuer Bitcoin seller is to sell in the first place.  Just buy and hold and wait for the world to adpat to crypto folks.

[Cereberus]

There will be scammers on every platform, not just with Bitcoin. We live in a world where people want to take shortcuts to get money.

They would spend hours trying to think of creative ways to scam hard working people out of their money. The worst of these are the

people using charities to do this. I once seen a women walking around with a dead child, trying to get sympathy from tourist and begging

for money in Africa. The child was not even her own... just a object to get people's pity for them to open their wallets. 

That is disgusting to say the least and that woman should be put to jail at least for eternity with such gesture. A truly monstrous gesture. By the way why are the money needed for the dead child in the first place ?

Scammers cannot be stopped and there will always be people who will fall for their tricks unfortunately. Personally I sell bitcoin lower than 1:1 rate at Bitpanda but at least I am sure I will not get scammed.

Bitcoin sellers should read more about bitcoin, and read all the stickies in the Currency Exchange and Digital Goods section to lower drastically their chances of making errors. Not much other than this can be done.

[calkob]

I agree that trying to sell bitcoins when you have no experience is really naive, but i think window licker as you put it is abit harsh

[fravia]

so to sum it up one could simply say, that you have to sell bitcoin offline and in an direct exchange for cash or goods? online it only makes sense as an professional exchange. or did i miss something?

I believe in reverse.If you want to be safe,always use good reputed exchange for most of them have all required info about both buyer and sellers and you can contact them and ask for help in case you get scammed

yeah, it is better to hold your bitcoins in the exchanges that have only good reputation so you dont lose it

[shinratensei_]

so to sum it up one could simply say, that you have to sell bitcoin offline and in an direct exchange for cash or goods? online it only makes sense as an professional exchange. or did i miss something?

I believe in reverse.If you want to be safe,always use good reputed exchange for most of them have all required info about both buyer and sellers and you can contact them and ask for help in case you get scammed

yeah, it is better to hold your bitcoins in the exchanges that have only good reputation so you dont lose it

So from the another users suggestion above me keep your bitcoin in the pouch of the people is those you don't know about that. but if you have a more time and MOVE it into your personal cold storage.

[davis196]

A friend sent me this earlier. Worth a read because it contains good advice.


http://www.844bankbtc.com/bitcoin-selling-mistakes/

Most common mistakes of amatuer Bitcoin sellers

Every day amateur bitcoin sellers post on one of the bitcoin forums about how they were trying to sell bitcoin and got scammed. These amateur sellers are commonly known as “windowlickers“. They lose their money, their bitcoin and still consider themselves smart enough to make money with bitcoin. The fact is most sellers lose more money than they make.

Here is the list of the most common mistakes amateurs make.

Selling bitcoin they can’t afford to lose. People often come into the forums talking about how they were scammed and now cannot pay bills. If you can’t afford to pay bills you shouldn’t be trading bitcoins. Even the best traders get scammed so plan to lose money.

Charging to little. Those profits are what keep you in business when prices fluctuate or you get scammed. Lower your prices to undercut your competition and you are cutting your own throat.

Accepting PayPal as a payment method. Yes, some people accept PayPal but they have a ton of experience and know tricks you don’t. If you accept Paypal you will get scammed, you will lose money and Paypal will come after you. Paypal can even take the money back out of your bank account and send you to collections/ruin your credit

Thinking PayPal friends and family is not reversible. Yes, it is reversible. If you search the trading forums you will find many windowlickers that have been scammed trying that. Then when you get scammed Paypal will look into your account. Paypal is smart enough to know that you don’t have hundreds of friends and family around the country sending you thousands of dollars. Your account will be frozen and you won’t be able to withdraw any money for 3-6 months. For the record EVERY form of Paypal payments are reversible.

Believing that anything you can say will help you win a Paypal dispute. Paypal doesn’t care what windowlickers say. The guarantee the buyers will be safe, not the sellers (it is in the Paypal terms that they don’t protect people selling bitcoin or other “digital goods and intagible items”) If the windowlickers were smart enough to win their dispute they wouldn’t have been accepting Paypal in the first place.
Taking Venmo/Skrill/Neteller. These suffer the same chargeback issues as Paypal but at a MUCH higher rate because they are even more infested with scammers than Paypal is.

Believing a website/forum can help and/or protect them.  Websites like LocalBitcoins and Paxful do what they can but they are understaffed and their primary concern is making money, not settling disputes or answering support tickets. The forums are full of other people just as clueless as you that have no power over the website. Understand you are on your own and expect 2-5 business days for a reply from support. Be prepared that the replies you get may not actually help you.

Believing reload cards like gift cards or reload cards are safe. They can be reversed and scammers do it all the time. Paypal MyCash cards and Amazon are the worst. There are also a lot of scams that will get your accounts shut down after the card has been loaded, you banned and a mark on your credit. Any money stored in the account will be locked and you will never see it again.

Trying to get cash off of reloadable or prepaid cards. Reloadable and prepaid cards are made to put cash on and then spend like a credit card. The way the card companies see it is that only idiots and money launderers try to put cash in and then take cash back out. This is one of the more common mistakes of an amateur and often causes accounts to be banned.

Releasing bitcoins without cash/payment being fully in your possession. Remember, most consumer based payment methods can be reversed.

Selling out of escrow. Hopefully you don’t really need an explanation why this is stupid.

Giving out personal information like bank account numbers or their phone number. There are tons of scams that use these. The professional sellers that do give this information out have safety features on their accounts to protect them.

Believing cash deposits are safe –  There are a number of scams that target bank accounts. These often end up with the police investigating the owner of the account and the bank’s banning the owner from their system (regardless of who is at fault).

Accepting credit cards. These are the easiest scammed of all because credit cards automatically default for the owner of the card and its up to the retailer/seller to prove that the purchase was one the card company approves of.

Believing that if a seller requires a photo ID they will be protected. Photo IDs that will fool police are easily bought online. Even if it is a real ID, most services do not care when they find out that the transaction involved bitcoin and will chargeback against the seller.

I`ve never heard the bitcoin noobs are called "windowlickers".Interesting...

You critisize every possible way of trading bitcoins.

There`s no 100% safe way to trade btc,we all know that.

Can you suggest any 100% secure alternative of buying and selling bitcoins?

[NorrisK]

At one point you simply have to trust a method such as exchanges (don't leave the coins there) or it will be impossible to buy bitcoins. There is no trustless service, but the risk can be minimized by using reputable services.

I am perfectly fine to pay a higher % fee for the ease of fast buying/selling, without leaving the house and without having to bother checking my bank account/paypal/whatever to see if the money is (still) there. Services charge a fee to make it easier for you and this should be embraced imo.

[ObscureBean]

I think Localbitcoins is safe enough even when selling Bitcoin for PayPal, you just need to check the track record of the buyer. There are plenty of buyers who've been on there for a long time and have 100% positive feedback from 1000+ trades. Sure that doesn't guarantee they won't scam you but it certainly helps. And if you're looking to sell a big amount of Bitcoins, you might consider selling in smaller chunks to several top buyers instead of the whole thing to just one buyer.