wild and unsubstantiated speculation about BFL's power woes

[creativex]

it is entirely possible they did not even use a 65nm processor node, just something to think about.

...BUH...BUH...BUT...that would be dishonest!?! I'm sure Sonny V would never head up a company that would do such a thing. Just keep the lottery tickets away from him.

Anyway JZ says they're 65nm full custom unicorn blood superchips and we all know what *his* word is worth.

[1715518574]

1715518574

[Syke]

Wheres Josh and his rebuttals?  I miss Josh the troller.

He sure liked to smack-talk Avalon. Now that Avalon has shipped quiet a few units, and BFL power usage has skyrocketed while performance has plummeted, Josh has sure been quiet. Come on, Josh. Make fun of all those Avalons cranking out 5 BTC/day.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

it is entirely possible they did not even use a 65nm processor node, just something to think about.

LMAO!

[DPoS]

Wheres Josh and his rebuttals?  I miss Josh the troller.

he spend all day in his pied piper shout box...    very hopeless there, like cancer ward they sufferers try to smile in the pain

they wil turn into walking dead zombies soon

[tvbcof]

it is entirely possible they did not even use a 65nm processor node, just something to think about.

One of the few things that argues against the hypothesis that BFL is 100% scam (in my mind) is that they managed to fool the you guys.  It would be kinda funny if it turned out that the Avalon guys were in a foot-race against exactly zero other vendors this whole time.  Very sweet for Avalon customers though.

[DPoS]

it is entirely possible they did not even use a 65nm processor node, just something to think about.

One of the few things that argues against the hypothesis that BFL is 100% scam (in my mind) is that they managed to fool the you guys.  It would be kinda funny if it turned out that the Avalon guys were in a foot-race against exactly zero other vendors this whole time.  Very sweet for Avalon customers though.

And I think icing on the scam cake is that BFL used many preorder $$$ to buy Avalons

[eldentyrell]

and their first prototype is educating them on why you don't go whole hog and order the parts to mass produce a product before any testing is done.

Actually six wafers is the minimum order at every foundry I've worked with.

The only way to get less than six wafers worth of chips is to join an MPW, but those masks can't be reused (or even modified to fix bugs) so if your ultimate goal is to be in production rather than some sort of research project it just doesn't make sense.

[eldentyrell]

Could you please speculate wildly on why the idle power usage is so high?

Originally advertised values for a Single SC: 40 Watt while hashing (at 40GHash/s). Actual values for this little prototype board (with unknown hashrate): 42 Watt idle (!!), 160 Watt when hashing.

I'm guessing "idle" means the clock is still running, so all the gates are still switching.  In other words, it isn't actually idle.  My Spartan-6 firmware is like this -- unless you stop the clock it consumes the same amount of power as when doing useful work.  Not much reason to put clock-enables on a mining chip.

It reminds me of ECL or linear analog designs.

I think we'll see current-mode logic (MCML) mining chips pretty soon.  If the device is going to be powered on and running full speed 24x7x365 anyways a lot of the power advantage of voltage-mode CMOS goes away.

No, I don't think BFL is using CML.

[eldentyrell]

It is pretty obvious now that they don't know what they are doing...  like the first season of Gold Rush

BFL probably filmed the past 10 months and will be on the next season of that show

Whoever photoshops Josh's face onto Todd Hoffman's body is my hero.  Bonus points for goatee.

  -- elden "Dakota" tyrell

[eldentyrell]

ever know how many potential legit ASIC suppliers were scared away by BFL's promise, leaving only the failed cowboys and Avalon and those who don't announce their products until they work behind.  But I would bet that number is greater than zero.

ftfy

[Rodyland]

ever know how many potential legit ASIC suppliers were scared away by BFL's promise, leaving only the failed cowboys and Avalon and those who don't announce their products until they work behind.  But I would bet that number is greater than zero.

ftfy

If you mean that BFL scared away people who had products already in development, I find that hard to believe.  Committing the $1M or so to an ASIC design and mask etc is a huge sunk cost.  I find it to believe that anyone would sink that much work and investment and then walk away from it because someone else announced a competing product.

If you mean that there are others out there quietly toiling away building ASIC miners, who actually have the financial backing to not need to take preorders, as well as the integrity to not sell something until it's ready to ship, then I really, really hope so.

[eldentyrell]

If you mean that BFL scared away people who had products already in development, I find that hard to believe.

^ That is not what I meant.

If you mean that there are others out there quietly toiling away building ASIC miners, who actually have the financial backing to not need to take preorders, as well as the integrity to not sell something until it's ready to ship, then I really, really hope so.

[meowmeowbrowncow]

Wheres Josh and his rebuttals?  I miss Josh the troller.

he spend all day in his pied piper shout box...    very hopeless there, like cancer ward they sufferers try to smile in the pain

they wil turn into walking dead zombies soon

I like this one.


Maybe we can call them "Josh's Kids" like a charity for the very sad, true believers.  Those that do not fret, but become more sedated as the BFL propaganda pathogen gnaws at their brain like a prion disease.

[BR0KK]

...i just had an idea about the power usage:

Remember how the jalapeño was introduced? Coffee-warmer! ..... Now instead of warming you can straight out boil your espresso on these:)