is cloudhashing.com a scam??

[CoinHoarder]

I have expressed my concerns in the thread he's advertising his services on here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173316.0

This is awful fishy

[Deprived]

I received some emails from him after having expressed reservations about this project.

I haven't had (or got today) time to look at them in great detail - but on the face of it, it definitely seems as though he DOES have orders for the hardware he claims to have ordered (I have order numbers, screen-shots of amounts paid etc) and that at least the majority of those were ordered and paid for before he began selling shares to the public.

That's obviously a vast step up from most such offerings.  And the way he's dealt with my criticisms/comments IS what I'd expect from someone who was legitimate rather than a scammer.

I can't say with certainty that what I was sent wasn't edited/faked - but if he gives permission I could ask BFL to verify that the orders he's shown to me exist, are in his name (which I have) and are for what he claims they're for.

I've also seen some evidence of sales - though that's harder to verify.

Whilst I'm not going to vouch for this or anything I'd say there's a very high chance that he intends to do *and is capable of doing) what he's offering to do.  How profitable it wil be is for investors to decide for themselves (and largely depends on what BFL do - which is beyond anyone's ability to predict).

[Gator-hex]

Copy of my post from the other thread on this subject...

I doubt you will ever get an ASIC Mini Rig the power specs put them at crazy watts and they've been 2 weeks away from delivering since October 2012.

A private limited liability company just means we cannot sue you personally so not that impressive.

Date of Incorporation: 25/02/2013 only a month or so ago, so no trading history, no accounts, there could be £1 in the company which means as soon as someone sues it folds leaving outstanding creditors with nothing.

A private limited company is restricted from selling shares to the public so you call them "Contracts" but the fact you offer "pay-out" and "reinvestment" makes them sound like shares, instead of a product or service. 

If you want to sell financial contracts in the UK the law says you need to register with the http://www.fca.org.uk or you could go to jail if someone reports you to them first!

When I look the address up on Google maps it looks like a Sedus Stoll office furniture store, I cannot see any Cloudhashing or Technology IQ LTD logos.

[cloudhasher]

[Edit 13th April]
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=176262.0

We have been reviewed and cleared

I doubt you will ever get an ASIC Mini Rig the power specs put them at crazy watts and they've been 2 weeks away from delivering since October
2012.

"I doubt' meaning your opinion.

A private limited liability company just means we cannot sue you personally so not that impressive.

Nip picking here. What would you prefer? Even when Lehman went bust, who is seeing the individuals? Look a limited company makes the best sense for what we are doing. There are many people who do the same. Besides, your point is no entirely true. If I am found to have run a fraud, I can face jail time. This is law, period!!!

Date of Incorporation: 25/02/2013 only a month or so ago, so no trading history, no accounts, there could be £1 in the company which means as soon as someone sues it folds leaving outstanding creditors with nothing.

As the proof documentation sent to 2 HERO members show, I bought the hardware before selling a share to the public.

A private limited company is restricted from selling shares to the public so you call them "Contracts" but the fact you offer "pay-out" and "reinvestment" makes them sound like shares, instead of a product or service.  

Calling them contracts is not an issue last time I checked legally. Pay out is in virtual 'currency' not cash. Reinvestment is in additional hardware.

If you want to sell financial contracts in the UK the law says you need to register with the http://www.fca.org.uk or you could go to jail if someone reports you to them first!

Reading my terms and conditions, if you bothered to....you will see I am selling computing processing power. Its more like a service. Nothing to do with financial instruments. And I am very proficient with financial instruments.

Warmest regards

[jml]

Quote from: cloudhasher on April 11, 2013, 12:56:51 PM
We in total have 4 mini rigs on order with BFL (I admit I wish we ordered sooner).

I have posted this in the cloudhashing thread but it seems not to appear so i'll repost here. (To Moderator, please delete which ever of the two if my previous post does appear.)

What are your fault tolerance policies if a minirig failed? I assume that one minirig could hash at a rate of 1500GH/s (as per BFL's advertising) and assuming that 1GH equates to a minimum of one contract per GH, then 1500 contracts would be affected.

BFL have not issued the specifications of the minirig and I am assuming it has no fault tolerant hardware or High Availability hardware either; such as hot swappable PSU's or ASIC racks if there was a failure within the minirig. If this was the case, perhaps you should look into having a redundant fail over cluster to deliver the hashing capacity as promised by your contracts.

[cloudhasher]

What are your fault tolerance policies if a minirig failed? I assume that one minirig could hash at a rate of 1500GH/s (as per BFL's advertising) and assuming that 1GH equates to a minimum of one contract per GH, then 1500 contracts would be affected.

Scenario 1 : Full device failure - we will be given a replacement within 24hrs by BFL as per our SLA. Our host partner is in the same city as BFL.
Scenario 2: Hash rate is less than quoted i.e. 1450 instead of 1500. - we have a 20-30% tolerance with each machine. Meaning our cut of the machine gets hit. Not our clients.

BFL have not issued the specifications of the minirig and I am assuming it has no fault tolerant hardware or High Availability hardware either; such as hot swappable PSU's or ASIC racks if there was a failure within the minirig. If this was the case, perhaps you should look into having a redundant fail over cluster to deliver the hashing capacity as promised by your contracts.

As above, we have a 24 hour agreement. Same day if possible. This means minimal down time.

Hope that answers your questions

Kind regards

[jml]

What are your fault tolerance policies if a minirig failed? I assume that one minirig could hash at a rate of 1500GH/s (as per BFL's advertising) and assuming that 1GH equates to a minimum of one contract per GH, then 1500 contracts would be affected.

Scenario 1 : Full device failure - we will be given a replacement within 24hrs by BFL as per our SLA. Our host partner is in the same city as BFL.
Scenario 2: Hash rate is less than quoted i.e. 1450 instead of 1500. - we have a 20-30% tolerance with each machine. Meaning our cut of the machine gets hit. Not our clients.

BFL have not issued the specifications of the minirig and I am assuming it has no fault tolerant hardware or High Availability hardware either; such as hot swappable PSU's or ASIC racks if there was a failure within the minirig. If this was the case, perhaps you should look into having a redundant fail over cluster to deliver the hashing capacity as promised by your contracts.

As above, we have a 24 hour agreement. Same day if possible. This means minimal down time.

Hope that answers your questions

Kind regards

Scenario 3: BFL closes shop and no longer can support your SLA.

What generic hardware can be used in this scenario to replace components on your minirig if this was to happen?

EDIT
=====

From your T&C:

"This contract shall expire when bitcoin mining becomes unprofitable at which time the parties may extend it by agreement in writing."

Does this mean the contract holder needs to fork more money out to maintain the business model?

In your T&C, there is no mention of what availability you would promise to contract holders. What percentage of availability do you promise on contract holders? 90%? 99%? 9.9999%?

[cloudhasher]

Scenario 3: BFL closes shop and no longer can support your SLA.

What generic hardware can be used in this scenario to replace components on your minirig if this was to happen?

If I knew the answer to that, I would be a Bitcoin hardware manufacturer than a service provider :-). However, we are looking to use additional mining hardware to limit our exposure to BFL. Unfortunately Avalon's solution is not workable as the power requirements is sky high to be scalable. We will continue to monitor the market for such opportunities.

From your T&C:

"This contract shall expire when bitcoin mining becomes unprofitable at which time the parties may extend it by agreement in writing."

Does this mean the contract holder needs to fork more money out to maintain the business model?

That is not what that sentence means. Its is a general maintenance contract phrase. If the service can no longer be supported for one reason or another, for mining its down to profitability, then we can decide to do 2 things

1)  sell the hardware and return the sales proceeded to our customers.
2) Use our cash reserve to continue till no more money is available.

In your T&C, there is no mention of what availability you would promise to contract holders. What percentage of availability do you promise on contract holders? 90%? 99%? 9.9999%?

It is not there because we would be foolish to promise something we have no measure of yet. Once the hardware arrives and we have it running for a while, these kind if things can be written into the T&C.

[cloudhasher]

https://picasaweb.google.com/104878918886305681953/ProofOfPurchase?authuser=0&feat=directlink

Proof of last 3 Mini rigs for cloudhashing.com.

Enjoy

[Raoul Duke]

forum posts use bbcode, not html.

[Welsh]

Well, I guess the only way that we will know is if people actually use it & give reports. There is no point in speculating whether it is or is not.

[CoinHoarder]

Well, I guess the only way that we will know is if people actually use it & give reports.


However from what I'm seeing it's a scam, but I don't know.

Yes. I am not changing my opinion of this looking like a scam until an actual user of the service reports otherwise.

Someone that can make a nice website such as cloudhasing.com can also alter documents for proof in Photoshop with ease.

That document proves nothing IMO.

[jml]

What are your fault tolerance policies if a minirig failed? I assume that one minirig could hash at a rate of 1500GH/s (as per BFL's advertising) and assuming that 1GH equates to a minimum of one contract per GH, then 1500 contracts would be affected.

Scenario 1 : Full device failure - we will be given a replacement within 24hrs by BFL as per our SLA. Our host partner is in the same city as BFL.
Scenario 2: Hash rate is less than quoted i.e. 1450 instead of 1500. - we have a 20-30% tolerance with each machine. Meaning our cut of the machine gets hit. Not our clients.

BFL have not issued the specifications of the minirig and I am assuming it has no fault tolerant hardware or High Availability hardware either; such as hot swappable PSU's or ASIC racks if there was a failure within the minirig. If this was the case, perhaps you should look into having a redundant fail over cluster to deliver the hashing capacity as promised by your contracts.

As above, we have a 24 hour agreement. Same day if possible. This means minimal down time.

Hope that answers your questions

Kind regards

Scenario 3: BFL closes shop and no longer can support your SLA.

What generic hardware can be used in this scenario to replace components on your minirig if this was to happen?

EDIT
=====

From your T&C:

"This contract shall expire when bitcoin mining becomes unprofitable at which time the parties may extend it by agreement in writing."

Does this mean the contract holder needs to fork more money out to maintain the business model?

In your T&C, there is no mention of what availability you would promise to contract holders. What percentage of availability do you promise on contract holders? 90%? 99%? 9.9999%?

Since you have posted the image of your order showing that the minirigs would be delivered to the UK,. This contradicts  what you have stated on your previous posts that the minirigs would be housed in a US location close to BFL, thus reducing downtime within a 24hr window. Please explain.

[Gator-hex]

https://picasaweb.google.com/104878918886305681953/ProofOfPurchase?authuser=0&feat=directlink

Proof of last 3 Mini rigs for cloudhashing.com.

Enjoy

Proves nothing because you're hiding the delivery name and address so the assets many not even belong to the LTD company but directly to Emmanuel Abiodun.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

https://picasaweb.google.com/104878918886305681953/ProofOfPurchase?authuser=0&feat=directlink

Proof of last 3 Mini rigs for cloudhashing.com.

Enjoy

Proves nothing because you're hiding the delivery name and address so the assets many not even belong to the LTD company but directly to Emmanuel Abiodun.

He is hiding? You can obviously make it out that it belongs to him (not the LTD).

[cloudhasher]

Since you have posted the image of your order showing that the minirigs would be delivered to the UK,. This contradicts  what you have stated on your previous posts that the minirigs would be housed in a US location close to BFL, thus reducing downtime within a 24hr window. Please explain.

Hi,

Check the BFL forums, you will find that you must send an email to BFL and the hosting partner after making the order. BFL then deduct the first month's hosting cost from the delivery charge as its basically in the same city. This process is not handled in their standard order process.

Seems like you guys want an on going argument and not proof. No matter what is sent to you, you will challenge it. :-)

A bit childish if you ask me.

[cloudhasher]

Proves nothing because you're hiding the delivery name and address so the assets many not even belong to the LTD company but directly to Emmanuel Abiodun.

Not true. Out terms and conditions actually specify that for indefinite contract holders, the device belongs to the contract holders (our clients). We merely charge a maintenance fee. These are handled by the legal terms not a PO. I handle the orders so specify my name as a contact.

I do appreciate your willingness to protect your forum members, however it seems like no matter what we post or send as proof will not suffice until BFL deliver. Lets just do that and wait.

I am a little disappointed as the bitcoin community is not as anti business as this forum seems. A simple attempt to advertise our service has turn into nothing more than an opportunity for you to have a war of attrition which does both parties no good.

Kind regards

[LorenzoMoney]

I have corresponded via email with Emmanuel from cloudhashing.com.

I have learned that they have a couple of the Butterfly Labs machines on order. Emmanuel also told me that they are in communication with the BFL people and that he expects the BFL machines to be delivered soon.

I have two smaller BFL machines on order and part of the reason I wanted to correspond with them is I figure that if they bought a couple of US$30,000 machines, they would know more about BFL delivery dates than anyone.

My intuition is that the cloudhashing folk are NOT scammers. Yes, they are charging twice as much per GigaHash as you would pay if you bought a BFL machine on your own. On the other hand, they will maintain the machines. If BFL delivers my machine and a few months down the road I have a problem with my mining rig, I am sort of SOL.

I was trained as a scientist in grad school. That means, I wait for evidence before I make some accusation. There is no reason to believe that Cloudhasing is a scam. They might not get their mining rigs delivered, but that doesn't mean they are a scam. Emmanuel assured me that if they do not get delivered, all contract purchases will be refunded.

I do not have any financial interest in Cloudhashing, and have not yet bought any contracts. I just responded because it bothers me when people make accusations that are unsubstantiated.  State your beliefs, but if you are going to make a statement that is accusatory, please provide evidence.

[chmod755]

Looks like they're accepting PP and CC too. Chargeback if it doesn't work 

[jml]

Since you have posted the image of your order showing that the minirigs would be delivered to the UK,. This contradicts  what you have stated on your previous posts that the minirigs would be housed in a US location close to BFL, thus reducing downtime within a 24hr window. Please explain.

Hi,

Check the BFL forums, you will find that you must send an email to BFL and the hosting partner after making the order. BFL then deduct the first month's hosting cost from the delivery charge as its basically in the same city. This process is not handled in their standard order process.

Seems like you guys want an on going argument and not proof. No matter what is sent to you, you will challenge it. :-)

A bit childish if you ask me.

I am grilling you to see how well you hold up to objective critiques. Unfortunately, the proof that you have submitted is not enough; i.e. the order you posted with a UK delivery address and some people have expressed worries.

I believe the questions and opinions given are valid and any person who is in the business would ask. If you present yourself as a new company into a community of bitcoin miners, I believe to be reasonable that you should be expected to go through a grilling process which helps me, and others, to understand better your plans, and how your business model works. Think of it as dragons den; we are the possible investors willing to invest in an idea and you are the guy with the proposal but need investors to make it a reality. We will grill you and depending on how you answer my questions and others from the community, I might conclude that either; a) you are a serious company with a solid business plan with fault tolerant systems in place intending to set up a business implementation that may survive for many years, b) a company attempting to implement a high risk business model where technical/sourcing flaws exist, or c) a scam.
So my critique here is as my previous opinions given before whether you want to take it or not, and why should potential customers (us the mining community) invest in your business plan that is centrally based on a product that no one has seen or observed any demonstrable activity? i.e. hashing.

As a last point, children don't normally ask technical and challenging questions and so far with your condescending comment, you are not holding up to my expectations as a serious company who are seeking customers within the bitcoin mining community.