Factom - crowdsales are bullshit

[TKeenan]

See, here is the problem with crowdsales.  Who will own the profits of Factom?  Draper just invested $4.2 million. Will the people who bought the 'tokens' get the profits or will Draper?  Of course, Draper.  What will the token holders get?  'Access' to the network.  But all users will have 'access'.  Originally, Factom token buyers believed others would have to buy factoids (tokens) from them at a high price to use the Factom network.  But surely Draper isn't going to let that money on the table fall off the edge into other people's pockets.  So, what will the token holders actually get?  Nothing.  

Draper owns the profits from Factom and any imaginable scheme whatever won't distribute those profits to 'token holders'.  

Total bait and switch.  This is why the SEC won't allow 'crowdsales' with cryptocurrencies.  There is no enforceable obligation for an admin to fairly distribute profits to the token holders.  If this were a typical equity deal and the admin and 'preferred investor' tried to run off with all the profits, there could be a shareholder lawsuit.  With crypto, the 'shares' or 'tokens' don't represent a share of profits.  There is really no obligation whatever for the underlying company to do anything for the token holder.  

Don't believe you are investing in a company when you buy 'tokens' in a crowdsale.  You are really buying false hope.  Factom proved it perfectly.  

[AlanX]

See, here is the problem with crowdsales.  Who will own the profits of Factom?  

Every distributed consensus system needs incentives to run the protocol, which is why Factom has a token.  It's why Bitcoin has a token.  Why Ethereum has a token.

You are right.  A token isn't stock.  But you can't use stock to incentivize a distributed, autonomous protocol. 

So these are different things, and people buy stock or tokens for different reasons.

We sold the tokens in our crowd sale for 10 to 12 cents a token, more or less.  If you bought at that price, I think you could exit now and be happy enough. If the protocol catches on, since the supply is pretty limited, the token price might go higher.  And that could be true even if the company (which seeks to build applications on the Factom protocol) does or does not make a profit.

That is because tokens are not stock, and stock isn't tokens.

I never advise people to buy our token, or any crypto.  It is an easy way to lose money.  So are stocks though.  Any high yeild investment carries risk.  Don't invest money in crypto that you cannot afford to lose.

[MyBTT]

Doesn't this belong in "Altcoin Discussion"? You're discussing Factom and how tokens are somehow irrelevant, even though this is only evident in Factom. Nothing to do with bitcoin.

[Mimir]

See, here is the problem with crowdsales.  Who will own the profits of Factom?  

Don't believe you are investing in a company when you buy 'tokens' in a crowdsale.  You are really buying false hope.  Factom proved it perfectly.  

This post is very bizarre, with a lot of misinformation.

Factom is the company, the tokens are Factoids, you could invest in either through bnktothefuture or buying FCT.

Factom Inc that Draper just invested in, hopes to earn it's cash from putting data onto the Factom blockchain burning factoid tokens in the process. But companies don't have to use Factom Inc, they could just do it themselves. Jeez, if you hate Draper so much you could start your own company that directly competes with the Factom Inc selling entries just like they do.

Your allegations about Draper somehow taking all the profits himself from a registered US corporation after buying a small stake in the company is utterly bizarre.

If Factom Inc does well it burns more FCT, which benefits token holders AND investors in the company.
If Factom inc does terrible as a company but business/govt start using the protocol and putting data on the chain themselves it only benefits token holders.

A little bit of research goes a long way my friend. All the best.

[MONKEYJUNK]

There's a lot of people that thinks all ICO's are scams, like Ponzis, nigerian prince and others examples...

People are buying "nothing" for a estabilished price

What's your point of view about it?

[Denker]

There's a lot of people that thinks all ICO's are scams, like Ponzis, nigerian prince and others examples...

People are buying "nothing" for a estabilished price

What's your point of view about it?

Imo this is true.
You just have to take a look on the past ICOs. The ones who have benefit are the founders and whales who supported that project for a nice ROI!The majority always will lose!
This is the reason why I never invested in such ICOs.Hidden arrangements, premining, pump & dump groups etc...

[Zubilica]

There's a lot of people that thinks all ICO's are scams, like Ponzis, nigerian prince and others examples...

People are buying "nothing" for a estabilished price

What's your point of view about it?

Imo this is true.
You just have to take a look on the past ICOs. The ones who have benefit are the founders and whales who supported that project for a nice ROI!The majority always will lose!
This is the reason why I never invested in such ICOs.Hidden arrangements, premining, pump & dump groups etc...

I actually made out very very nicely as an outsider on several ICO's.

ETH and Lisk are two examples.

[CoinBreader]

There's a lot of people that thinks all ICO's are scams, like Ponzis, nigerian prince and others examples...

People are buying "nothing" for a estabilished price

What's your point of view about it?

Imo this is true.
You just have to take a look on the past ICOs. The ones who have benefit are the founders and whales who supported that project for a nice ROI!The majority always will lose!
This is the reason why I never invested in such ICOs.Hidden arrangements, premining, pump & dump groups etc...

I actually made out very very nicely as an outsider on several ICO's.

ETH and Lisk are two examples.

Guys dont freak out! ICO are high risk investments, so if the first stages seems legit for you, go in , dump at x2 or if you got balls wait lil more where it goes, dump and leave, when the price stabilaze you can re-enter..
If any ICO was to be a successor all we will be reach by now!

[MONKEYJUNK]

There's a lot of people that thinks all ICO's are scams, like Ponzis, nigerian prince and others examples...

People are buying "nothing" for a estabilished price

What's your point of view about it?

Imo this is true.
You just have to take a look on the past ICOs. The ones who have benefit are the founders and whales who supported that project for a nice ROI!The majority always will lose!
This is the reason why I never invested in such ICOs.Hidden arrangements, premining, pump & dump groups etc...

I actually made out very very nicely as an outsider on several ICO's.

ETH and Lisk are two examples.

Guys dont freak out! ICO are high risk investments, so if the first stages seems legit for you, go in , dump at x2 or if you got balls wait lil more where it goes, dump and leave, when the price stabilaze you can re-enter..
If any ICO was to be a successor all we will be reach by now!

If the project is strong you can wait for more, like 5x, 10x in a long term...
Or buy from a lot different ICO's and for sure it will be profitable.

[QuestionAuthority]

A fool and his bitcoins are soon parted.

[trinaldao]

i think this is must be at altcoin discussion not at this sub forum.
anyway for me ICO is good method for developer to make his wallet full with your bitcoin, some ICO created just for scaming everyone.

[qiwoman2]

It all depends on what the crowdsale is all about. Some projects can really take off whilst others are clearly a sham. It all depends on the investor do do good due diligence. It's like any investment, it holds a risk. Also non bitcoin/altcoin investments are also risky, this comes part and parcel of investing in general I think.

[CoinBreader]

Well crowdsales is for a nice quick profit , go in dump leave, buy when dump end sell afterthat, dont try to compare a super fat wallet vs a ordinary wallet like ours ,

[Mimir]

Having a whole bunch of people in this thread abuse Factom offends me, these are good people involved with the coin, without a doubt. Look at their history.

The Factom ICO was well over a year. Draper just announced he would invest in the company last week which is what OP is complaining about.

These are totally different things and you are a complete idiot if you can't separate those facts from each other.

[TKeenan]

Well crowdsales is for a nice quick profit , go in dump leave,

Even Coindesk was 'pumping' that very stupid ZCash bullshit.  ZCash was a hit for about 10 minutes.  Then dead.  lol.  'crowdsales' are bullshit.

[th3nolo]

There's a lot of people that thinks all ICO's are scams, like Ponzis, nigerian prince and others examples...

People are buying "nothing" for a estabilished price

What's your point of view about it?

Imo this is true.
You just have to take a look on the past ICOs. The ones who have benefit are the founders and whales who supported that project for a nice ROI!The majority always will lose!
This is the reason why I never invested in such ICOs.Hidden arrangements, premining, pump & dump groups etc...

I actually made out very very nicely as an outsider on several ICO's.

ETH and Lisk are two examples.

Almost every crowdsale has a dump at the start, there are few who successfully pass the ico, And is very hard to know wich coins have a real team working behind.. is like a penny stock market.

[Mimir]

It is a penny stock market, just with much lower barriers to entry than listing publically, have invested in plenty of startups on stock exchanges and its the same deal, big idea, struggle to implement it, very few make it, the one's that do make up for all the rest you lose dosh on.

Factom has it's house in order at least compared to plenty others in crypto.

[JeffBrad12]

Well crowdsales is for a nice quick profit , go in dump leave,

Even Coindesk was 'pumping' that very stupid ZCash bullshit.  ZCash was a hit for about 10 minutes.  Then dead.  lol.  'crowdsales' are bullshit.

Thousand btc are get lost at the zcash and that's so pathetic, I don't ever see the team moreover with their history.