BTC has too few coins to function as a global currency.

[BitcoinNational]

I know first argument will be that it is divisible to a million trillion satoshi.
(but what is the fee to send 1 satoshi ?   )

This debate has been around for ages.  I was wondering if there is a lists of essays/blogs/threads that eloquently sum up the situation?

---
1. Satoshi designed Bitcoin to eventually become a deflationary currency.
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Bitcoins-cap-set-at-circa-21-million-coins-and-not-more-or-less

 
 

[Patatas]

I know first argument will it is divisible to a million trillion satoshi.
(but what is the fee to send 1 satoshi ?  )

More like why would you even consider doing a garbage transaction ?You will end up paying more fees than the actual transaction if you want your transaction to get confirmed,ever.

This debate has been around for ages.  I was wondering if there is a lists of essays/blogs/threads that eloquently sum up the situation?

Not currently...I remember reading a similar discussion here https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Bitcoins-cap-set-at-circa-21-million-coins-and-not-more-or-less

[Spoetnik]

Good point !

And i have had many times where i wanted to send small amounts but couldn't afford it..

Not everyone is rich spoiled greedy shitheads.  

How about telling people that if they want to spend a quarter at a store it will cost them $5 ?
Like duh.. you NEED to be able to spend small amounts.. it's life.

And divisible is a poor excuse.
The dollar in Canada is divisible.. but then it's NOT a dollar anymore but "change"
Hell we even dropped the 1 cent penny way back.. we don't use them, shit is rounded off at store registers.
We were told it was starting to cost 1.6 cents to make a penny so Canada dropped it.

Bitcoin needs to be usable across the board and not just advantageous to guys looking for a cheap way to move a small fortune.

To me viewing Bitcoin as a Currency and seeing it at $600 that alone tells me there is not enough BTC coins.

This all makes me wonder if an Altcoin could fix these glaring issues.. with out centralization.

[dinofelis]

I know first argument will be that it is divisible to a million trillion satoshi.
(but what is the fee to send 1 satoshi ?   )

This debate has been around for ages.  I was wondering if there is a lists of essays/blogs/threads that eloquently sum up the situation?

I think that the world's GDP is of the order of $ 100 trillion or so.   We have 20 million bitcoin at 100 million satoshi each, which brings us to 2000 trillion satoshi.    So if bitcoin were to handle the full world's GDP,  a satoshi would be of the order of 5 cents.

Now, having bank transfer costs of 5 cents when you want to transfer 5 cents wouldn't sound like ridiculous, wouldn't it ?

The discretisation of bitcoin units (in Satoshi) is not what is going to limit bitcoin's adoption.   The block chain and block size is, long before this becomes an issue.

[Herbert2020]

ok lets take this one step at a time.
you say bitcoin becomes a global currency, so in that case the price should rise up a lot first because of the adoption (simply more demand > higher price)

first of all it will never be "global" nothing is ever global. so lets say the price goes up to $10,000 since so many users like this number then 1 cent is 0.000001BTC (0.000002BTC if it goes to $5000)

so it is safe to assume 1 satoshi is worth something eventually.

with that in mind there is not 21 million coins but there are 21e14 (2,100,000,000,000,000) coins available so there is enough coins to go around. (keep in mind there is nothing called decimal point in bitcoin code, for example right now what you see as 0.1BTC is what your GUI shows you in reality you should see 10000000 instead)

(but what is the fee to send 1 satoshi ?  )

two things i got to say to this:
1) fees will change with price. and it has already changed a lot of times
2) it has been said before and i say it again if 1 satoshi has a value in fiat then bitcoin can be divided into a smaller amount (0.1, 0.01 satoshi)

[BitcoinNational]

two things i got to say to this:
1) fees will change with price. and it has already changed a lot of times
2) it has been said before and i say it again if 1 satoshi has a value in fiat then bitcoin can be divided into a smaller amount (0.1, 0.01 satoshi)

RU that thick?  Do you ever see BTC hardforking:?  Please take a moment to stabs your self in the eyes.

OKAY
you buffoon!

2,100,000,000,000,000 coins available

yet...
I can not send 10 coins because the fee is 10,000 coins.

Get it .. yet?

so side chains fill the gap ... discus

[BiTZeD]

I don't understand what's that principal of side chains. So basically we're sending bitcoins without using Bitcoin ?

[TraderETH]

I know first argument will be that it is divisible to a million trillion satoshi.
(but what is the fee to send 1 satoshi ?   )

This debate has been around for ages.  I was wondering if there is a lists of essays/blogs/threads that eloquently sum up the situation?

---
1. Satoshi designed Bitcoin to eventually become a deflationary currency.
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Bitcoins-cap-set-at-circa-21-million-coins-and-not-more-or-less

 
 

Well i we can not send bitcoins for 1 Satoshi only, maybe you are right about your statement bitcoin has too few coins to function as global currency. But only bitcoins that has big amount of volume transaction and can be survive until right now. There are valuable into bitcoins than another coins.

[BitcoinNational]

I don't understand what's that principal of side chains. So basically we're sending bitcoins without using Bitcoin ?

durrh!


they can send value from A to Z less the fee of 10K satoshi.
even if your .. HOLY HOLY ... I only have faith in BTC ... yet ALTz still offer a cheaper route ...
the only need is to suspend your faith for a  few seconds.

Oh you cheaters ,,, ATONE!

[BitcoinNational]

But only bitcoins that has big amount of volume transaction and can be survive until right now.

against FIAT.
that's BTCs job.

but sending small units of value.
like the cost of a CPU hZ

it sucks at that

[xuan87]

maybe in the future, if bitcoin already become global currency and the price already very high, then they can make development to fix this things, maybe they can set the transaction below 10 satoshi, the fee is 1 satoshi or maybe another regulations, but for now we dont need to think about this things because the price is still low

[kiklo]

maybe in the future, if bitcoin already become global currency and the price already very high, then they can make development to fix this things, maybe they can set the transaction below 10 satoshi, the fee is 1 satoshi or maybe another regulations, but for now we dont need to think about this things because the price is still low

Bitcoin requires a complete redesign to be a global currency, they can't even agree on block size.  
Odds are they will hold their title as top coin for another year or two and then one of the Alts will take over as BTC begins its decline.
Many Alts were designed with Billions of coins, so they can be global and hold on to a micro-payment industry.
It may even be a tag team , LTC & Doge,
LTC handling the bigger values and Doge owning the micro-payment side, since the same miners can run both networks.
Funny that Together they may topple BTC. 


 

[r0ach]

Good point !

And i have had many times where i wanted to send small amounts but couldn't afford it..

Not everyone is rich spoiled greedy shitheads.  

How about telling people that if they want to spend a quarter at a store it will cost them $5 ?
Like duh.. you NEED to be able to spend small amounts.. it's life.

And divisible is a poor excuse.
The dollar in Canada is divisible.. but then it's NOT a dollar anymore but "change"
Hell we even dropped the 1 cent penny way back.. we don't use them, shit is rounded off at store registers.
We were told it was starting to cost 1.6 cents to make a penny so Canada dropped it.

Bitcoin needs to be usable across the board and not just advantageous to guys looking for a cheap way to move a small fortune.

To me viewing Bitcoin as a Currency and seeing it at $600 that alone tells me there is not enough BTC coins.

This all makes me wonder if an Altcoin could fix these glaring issues.. with out centralization.

Reloadable bitpay bitcoin debit card is the best $9 I've spent.  And you can just ignore kiklo posts because everyone with two brain cells knows Bitcoin is almost infinitely granular.  All that matters is what percentage of the chain you own, not how you express those units.

[European Central Bank]

people making points like this kinda goes to show how unworldly satoshi was when it comes to human psychology. if you're a computing genius then of course you're comfortable with strings of zeroes.

everyone else wants the zeroes moved to the back and wants to use whole units, not fractions. if bitcoin had been denominated in mbtc, bits, whatever from the offing I think it would be further along.

sure, there've been attempts to use those but nothing's stuck and it would've made far more sense to do it from the beginning. the longer whole units are used then the more entrenched it is.

this point of view often seems to get lots of objections but the people making it are already down the rabbit hole. it's the people who aren't who count and most of them ain't too switched on.

[Herbert2020]

RU that thick?  Do you ever see BTC hardforking:?  Please take a moment to stabs your self in the eyes.
OKAY
you buffoon!

i don't really understand why you are insulting me, if you don't agree with my comment or if i am wrong you can correct me like a normal human being.

and yes i have seen bitcoin hard fork at least once in the past and it has had so many changes and so many forks if that is the only thing you could come up with.

2,100,000,000,000,000 coins available
yet...
I can not send 10 coins because the fee is 10,000 coins.

make up your mind, is your main topic about right now or the future?
- yes right now you can not send 10 coins (10 satoshi) because of the current price and lots of other things and bitcoin is not a global currency right now.
it will be considered spam and in order to prevent spam there is a Dust threshold preventing it and this threshold has changed before and it can change again in the future.

- your topic (function as a global currency) is a thing of the future and if you read my previous comment you can see why i said 10 coins (10 satoshi) can be possible.
become globally adopted > more demand > more $$$ coming in > higher price > 10 satoshi will worth $1 for example and fee is not going to remain 10,000

[criptix]

When was the last time you went to buy some ice cream to eat with a bar of gold?

[BitcoinHodler]

so what is your suggestion after all these?

use another coin with a massive number of coins?
go to coinmarketcap and sort their list by available supply and see how many of those coins are successful?
HINT: prices barely reach 0.00001000BTC

I think bitcoin would have died if the total number were higher than this.

[spartak_t]

and yes i have seen bitcoin hard fork at least once in the past and it has had so many changes and so many forks if that is the only thing you could come up with.

Any sources to support that claim?

EDIT: OP, if Bitcoin reaches $5k or $10k its market cap will be equal to a small country's GDP. I think that's enough to call it success.

[Daisy14]

I suppose bitcoin can still scale the hurdle of transaction fees if something can be done about the size of its blockchain.

[yayayo]

I know first argument will be that it is divisible to a million trillion satoshi.
(but what is the fee to send 1 satoshi ?   )

You can expect that transaction fees will adjust to the buying power of Bitcoin, because the activity of miners who receive the transaction fees depends on electricity prices. So if the buying power of Bitcoin increases, miners can buy a higher amount of electricity with their mining proceeds. In turn this means that miners will be profitable, even if transaction fees drop. Therefore they will be willing to include transaction that have a lower BTC fee. (For simplicity I left out block rewards here and assumed a more mature Bitcoin, when fees will be the primary income for miners.)

At the time when even a single Satoshi has meaningful buying power, you can expect an upgrade of the Bitcoin code that allows higher accuracy to express fractions of a Bitcoin.

ya.ya.yo!