Stop accepting ads from BFL until they deliver?

[blockbet.net]

I'm probably out of line here, but here goes...

I know BFL are paying a lot of money to have their ads shown on this forum, but it's clear that they are having a lot of issues delivering. Maybe we should be more responsible about this matter, and stop showing ads from them until they have proven that they have the goods?

My problem with them is this: Why would they spend all that money into advertising something that they don't have, and with all the current preorders that would likely take them years to fulfill?

Only answer I can think of: They have no intentions of delivering, but don't mind taking the money from preorders. And if I'm right, that could be devastating for Bitcoin - that story is going to be on the news and a lot of people might lose faith in Bitcoin and strengthen the image of Bitcoin as a scammer's currency.

Any thoughts?

[opticbit]

I pulled the BFL ad from my sig.

[SgtSpike]

They have no intentions of delivering, but don't mind taking the money from preorders.

Willing to put some money on that statement?

[blockbet.net]

Willing to put some money on that statement?

That quote is taken slightly out of context. I really do hope that someone can give me a better answer - why do they spend so much money on advertising something that they don't have? The amount of preorders they have should take them ages to fulfil anyway once/if they start shipping. At best, it seems like irresponsible business behaviour.

The product may or may not ship soon - all I'm saying is put the ads on hold until we've got proof and some realistic time frame on time of purchase to time of delivery.

Therefore I think it is the forum's responsibility to keep an eye on the ads that they show, especially when talking about tens of thousands of dollars worth of items, to see if the ads are at all realistic and trustworthy, regardless of it the forum is being paid or not.

Frankly, I think this is something that should have already been done months ago.

[SgtSpike]

Willing to put some money on that statement?

That quote is taken slightly out of context. I really do hope that someone can give me a better answer - why do they spend so much money on advertising something that they don't have? The amount of preorders they have should take them ages to fulfil anyway once/if they start shipping. At best, it seems like irresponsible business behaviour.

The product may or may not ship soon - all I'm saying is put the ads on hold until we've got proof and some realistic time frame on time of purchase to time of delivery.

Therefore I think it is the forum's responsibility to keep an eye on the ads that they show, especially when talking about tens of thousands of dollars worth of items, to see if the ads are at all realistic and trustworthy, regardless of it the forum is being paid or not.

Frankly, I think this is something that should have already been done months ago.

Why do they spend so much money on advertising?  Why not?  If they can generate sales now, why wouldn't they do so?  The goal of a company is to turn a profit, and spending money on advertising to generate sales helps them do so.

Also, you have to keep in mind their perspective.  From their perspective, back in June 2012, they were fully intending to have a working product shipping out in late October or early November.  Then, unexpected problems turned up.  With each successive push-back of the ship date, they were expecting to be able to ship on that ship date.  More unexpected problems kept getting in the way of them doing so.  Now, you could argue that they should have foreseen these problems, which is a reasonable argument, but it doesn't change the fact that they didn't foresee them and they were intending to ship at each of these given time periods.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Back when I was spreading hopes and dreams across the forums of a new legitimate publication I was designing specifically for Bitcoin (Bitcoin Magazine) I was insanely enthusiastic and overly zealous, saying something I believe to the tune of "Next month!" which turned into pre-orders and 6 months of defending against accusations of "theft" and "scam". I feel BFL's pain, as it must be pretty annoying being called scammers when trying to salvage things as best as they can. That said, I gave up them (not as a legitimate company, but just being reliable) a long time ago when I asked Sonny what the timeline would be for the Single I paid for and he said "maybe 6 months".

This is not crowdfunding. It's not kickstarter. If they fail to deliver a product people already paid for in full (repeatedly), they are scammers. If they finally deliver, they are not scammers. It's pretty simple.

[blockbet.net]

Also, you have to keep in mind their perspective.  From their perspective, back in June 2012, they were fully intending to have a working product shipping out in late October or early November.  Then, unexpected problems turned up.  With each successive push-back of the ship date, they were expecting to be able to ship on that ship date.  More unexpected problems kept getting in the way of them doing so.  Now, you could argue that they should have foreseen these problems, which is a reasonable argument, but it doesn't change the fact that they didn't foresee them and they were intending to ship at each of these given time periods.

I agree. Yet once they started realising that they're having problems delivering, the most sensible thing to do would be to stop taking preorders until they have it figured out. Also I wouldn't have any problems with this if the preorder was simply a place in line, pay once the product is ready to ship, but it is just incredible that all this time they just keep taking preorders when they clearly have no idea when, if ever, they can ship.

Bitcointalk is not BFL. They can't stop people giving money to BFL, but when they're running BFL's ads all this time without any questions asked, that basically makes Bitcointalk a partner in crime. Bitcointalk is accepting money from a company that is looking more and more like a fraud every month. I know running the forum isn't free, but there should be at least some concern on where the money is coming from.

All I'm saying is that maybe it's time to put the ads on hold until the issue is resolved. There will be plenty of other advertisers to take their place.

[SgtSpike]

Also, you have to keep in mind their perspective.  From their perspective, back in June 2012, they were fully intending to have a working product shipping out in late October or early November.  Then, unexpected problems turned up.  With each successive push-back of the ship date, they were expecting to be able to ship on that ship date.  More unexpected problems kept getting in the way of them doing so.  Now, you could argue that they should have foreseen these problems, which is a reasonable argument, but it doesn't change the fact that they didn't foresee them and they were intending to ship at each of these given time periods.

I agree. Yet once they started realising that they're having problems delivering, the most sensible thing to do would be to stop taking preorders until they have it figured out. Also I wouldn't have any problems with this if the preorder was simply a place in line, pay once the product is ready to ship, but it is just incredible that all this time they just keep taking preorders when they clearly have no idea when, if ever, they can ship.

Bitcointalk is not BFL. They can't stop people giving money to BFL, but when they're running BFL's ads all this time without any questions asked, that basically makes Bitcointalk a partner in crime. Bitcointalk is accepting money from a company that is looking more and more like a fraud every month. I know running the forum isn't free, but there should be at least some concern on where the money is coming from.

All I'm saying is that maybe it's time to put the ads on hold until the issue is resolved. There will be plenty of other advertisers to take their place.

I still say, why not take preorders?  If people want to order, why not let them?

[Mike Christ]

Also, you have to keep in mind their perspective.  From their perspective, back in June 2012, they were fully intending to have a working product shipping out in late October or early November.  Then, unexpected problems turned up.  With each successive push-back of the ship date, they were expecting to be able to ship on that ship date.  More unexpected problems kept getting in the way of them doing so.  Now, you could argue that they should have foreseen these problems, which is a reasonable argument, but it doesn't change the fact that they didn't foresee them and they were intending to ship at each of these given time periods.

I agree. Yet once they started realising that they're having problems delivering, the most sensible thing to do would be to stop taking preorders until they have it figured out. Also I wouldn't have any problems with this if the preorder was simply a place in line, pay once the product is ready to ship, but it is just incredible that all this time they just keep taking preorders when they clearly have no idea when, if ever, they can ship.

Bitcointalk is not BFL. They can't stop people giving money to BFL, but when they're running BFL's ads all this time without any questions asked, that basically makes Bitcointalk a partner in crime. Bitcointalk is accepting money from a company that is looking more and more like a fraud every month. I know running the forum isn't free, but there should be at least some concern on where the money is coming from.

All I'm saying is that maybe it's time to put the ads on hold until the issue is resolved. There will be plenty of other advertisers to take their place.

I still say, why not take preorders?  If people want to order, why not let them?

I suppose you're right.  But if I had a pal who wanted to pre-order BFL, I'd probably slap his shit.

In any case, people need to learn to stop following the herd over cliffs.  This cannot be accomplished through hand-holding.

[rpietila]

Back when I was spreading hopes and dreams across the forums of a new legitimate publication I was designing specifically for Bitcoin (Bitcoin Magazine) I was insanely enthusiastic and overly zealous, saying something I believe to the tune of "Next month!" which turned into pre-orders and 6 months of defending against accusations of "theft" and "scam". I feel BFL's pain, as it must be pretty annoying being called scammers when trying to salvage things as best as they can. That said, I gave up them (not as a legitimate company, but just being reliable) a long time ago when I asked Sonny what the timeline would be for the Single I paid for and he said "maybe 6 months".

This is not crowdfunding. It's not kickstarter. If they fail to deliver a product people already paid for in full (repeatedly), they are scammers. If they finally deliver, they are not scammers. It's pretty simple.

I take this opportunity to pat you on the back, Matthew. It seems that you are doing good progress. I mean it sincerely!