Mining rig issues - 3 different mobo, USB Risers and PCIe GEN1/GEN2/GEN3. HELP!!

[Walrusbonzo]

Several months back I got back into mining, in particular Ethereum. I already had an ASRock H81 BTC Pro, Pentium G3220 and spare 4GB of RAM from a couple of years ago. The plan was to put together a 6 x 290x rig using five USB powered risers and one 16x non-powered ribbon riser and EVGA 1300w G2 PSU. I had previously mined with five GFX cards on this motherboard using USB risers but as I sold the risers last year I needed to buy more, so I did.

With one GFX card attached to the 16x slot via the 16x ribbon the PC would boot and mine in either Windows 10 or using https://simplemining.net Ubuntu 14 based OS. Good start. Next step, test with two cards.

And this is where the problems started..... The ASRock struggled to detect any GFX cards plugged in via a powered USB riser. I tried every combination of riser, GFX card, PCIe slot and multiple BIOS settings and I think in the end the best I could do was to get it to mine with two cards in SimpleMining OS, but only if the second card was plugged in the top 1x PCIe slot. Windows 10 however was totally stuck with just one card. If the second card was plugged into the top slot I could maybe get it to boot to Windows, but the second card would never be functioning either because Windows had "disabled it as a problem had been detected" or it just wouldn't appear in device manager at all. When trying the other slots most of the time it would start booting and then I'd get a BSOD with "thread stuck in device driver".

Naturally, I thought the ASRock board was faulty, even though I tried a wireless network card in every slot and Windows 10 recognised that every time! I had a spare ASUS Z97-A lying around, and although it only had five PCIe slots I thought I'd give it a go. Initially, I had all the same problems as with the ASRock board. Until I found a BIOS setting which allowed me to set the PCIe mode to GEN 1. This is absolutely the light and day setting it seems. With all the 1x PCIe slots forced into GEN 1 mode I can now mine on that rig with five GFX cards and have done for weeks. Purely for testing only and proof that this setting is the magic trick, even today I tried it in AUTO and GEN 2 mode and every time Windows 10 fails to boots and I get a BSOD with "thread stuck in device driver".

So last week I decided I wanted to build another mining rig. I bought another batch of powered USB risers from the same place as before, six RX480, an EVGA 1600 T2 PSU, 2x2GB Curcial DDR3 1600 and Celeron G1840. I thought I'd give the ASRock H81 BTC Pro board another try. Had all the same issues. After checking and double checking, it appears that on the ASRock board there is no BIOS option to force the PCIe generation on the 1x slots, only the 16x slot. My main PC running an ARock Z97 Extreme 4 also does not have an option to force PCIe generation on the 1x slots, again only the 16x slots. for now to make use of their power efficiencies I have placed all the RX480s in other rigs and pulled out 290x.

Next up, I went on Ebay and bought an MSI Z97 Gaming 5 as they have 7 PCIe slots. Three 16x and four 1x. I started putting that together last night with six 290x, Celeron G1840, 4GB and EVGA 1600w PSU. With one card on the top 16x slot with a 16x ribbon all was well in Windows and SimpleMining OS. I then added a second card with a powered USB riser onto the second 16x slot. The PC wouldn't even POST. So I removed that second GFX card and went into the BIOS and found that there are three PCIe generation options, one for each 16x slot. I forced them all to GEN 1, plugged the second GFX card back in and it boots to Windows 10 and starts mining on both cards. I then plugged in a third card, via USB riser to the third 16x slot. It boots to Windows and/or SimpleMining.net and I'm mining on three cards, I'm starting to rub my hands with joy and get excited. However, then I hit a stumbling block. The only slots left are 1x slots and if I used any of them to plug in a fourth GFX card Windows fails to boot and I get a BSOD saying, you've guessed it, "thread stuck in device driver". Like the ASRock boards there doesn't appear to be a BIOS option to force PCIe GEN 1 on the 1x slots and I'm certain that this is the same problem all over again. Incidentally, if I put the fourth card in the top 1x slot I can get mining working on four cards with SimpleMining.net OS only. So for now i'm doing that as four is better than three(Limit with Windows) or nothing

So, some questions :-

• Clearly, lots of people have used the H81 BTC Pro with USB powered risers and it works, even I did in the past. So what the hell am I doing wrong now?
• Does anyone else use an MSI Z97 Gaming 5 for mining, with USB powered risers and more than four GFX cards and it works in Windows?
• Has anyone else had this problem of having to force GEN1 on all PCIe 1x slots for mining to work?
• If so, do you know of a way of forcing GEN 1 when BIOS options don't exist?
• Is there another fix for "thread stuck in device driver"?
• Does anyone agree with my gut feeling that the problem here is the USB risers and that i've bought two dodgy batches that just won't work in PCIe GEN 2 mode?
• If so, what shall I look out for when buying the next batch?
• Currently I have Ver 003 riser boards, is this even meaningful?

Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any help.  

EDIT: I'm just about to test an RX480 on a USB powered riser on my ASRock Z97 Extreme 4. Expecting, "Thread stuck in device driver".....  
EDIT: All motherboards have the latest BIOS installed. All three boards have been used with fresh Windows 10 installs with latest drivers at the time, generally Cat 16.8 or 16.9.

[Walrusbonzo]

The plot thickens..... My main PC with ASRock Z97 Extreme 4 and 3 x RX480 is quite happy with one of them connected via powered USB riser and in a PCIe 1x GEN2 slot.

Is it the mobo or the GFX card that allows this I wonder.....

[MarkAz]

I have a bunch of H81 Pro BTC's with risers, and I've found them to be the most painless of any of the cards to setup.  About the only thing I change from their default settings (with latest firmware) is to have it auto-start on power loss.  All of them are also 6 card rigs.

I also have a couple of the H97 Anniversary's:

http://amzn.to/2cZ8TJv

And while I haven't found them to be as painless as the H81, they seem to work well.  The biggest difference in terms of BIOS settings with them is that I need to turn off the built-in graphics, and use the card on the 16x slot - and if I didn't do that, I would have much the same behavior as you described.

I'm just in the process of setting up one of the MSI 7-slot boards like you've got (Amazon has a good deal on refurbs right now):

http://amzn.to/2dSmtLI

And because these newer RX-series cards use much less power, I'm looking to make it my first 7 card rig, and I'm in the process of building it right now - just waiting on cards.  It's also going to be a mixed system, meaning 4 will be RX480's and the rest will be RX470's.

So, to your specific questions:

## I never do builds without risers - especially with a larger number of cards, simply because I think you end up with a more stable system when you're powering the GPU's directly.
## All my builds are Windows, so with the first two MB's above, 6 cards in Windows 10 is no big deal
## I've never needed to force my systems to Gen1, they always seem to auto-detect
## I've bought a ton of USB risers, and never had a problem with the RISER, now the USB3 cards I certainly have, so I just replace them with quality ones right from the beginning.  The USB cables I use are these:

http://amzn.to/2dZRw8V

They're longer than what most people will want (but exactly what I need), but CableMatters has all sorts and these work no issue.  So I would try replacing the USB cable first...
## Make sure you're powering these risers the riser through the molex plug in the back - this is the most common mistake I see people make - the power plug on the back of the riser is not optional.
## I've found no real difference between versions of risers, apart from the PCIe connector, color of PCB and locking mechanism.

[Walrusbonzo]

## I've never needed to force my systems to Gen1, they always seem to auto-detect

AutoDetect at what? When you start mining, what does GPU-z say? "... @ 1x 1.0" or "... @ 1x 2.0" or something else?

Of course all of the risers have power plugged into the 4 pin molex.

I had already ordered more USB 3 cables several weeks ago, but I think they got lost in the post

I will be interested to hear how you get on with the 7 slot MSI board.

[Walrusbonzo]

Ordered a load of replacement cables. Fingers crossed that fixes it.

[MarkAz]

AutoDetect at what? When you start mining, what does GPU-z say? "... @ 1x 1.0" or "... @ 1x 2.0" or something else?

Autodetect of the PCI bus speed - most of the boards I've worked with have Auto, Gen1, Gen2, Gen3.  I've seen people post that setting Gen1 sometimes fixes issues for them, but it never has for me and auto always seems to work.

Of course all of the risers have power plugged into the 4 pin molex.

I had already ordered more USB 3 cables several weeks ago, but I think they got lost in the post

I will be interested to hear how you get on with the 7 slot MSI board.

I did the initial build and I've got 4x RX480's in it right now, and it's working fine - no big surprise, haven't made it to the big 7 yet.    I've ordered 3x RX470's to make up the other 3 slots, so it should be fully rocking by the end of the week.  So far my only complaint is they have some BS BIOS graphical display that doesn't work on my small portable monitor - totally stupid.

[Walrusbonzo]

Ok, so with it set to autodetect, what do they actually connect as? GEN 1, 2 or 3? GPU-z will tell, you, I'm really curious.

I'm not a fan of the BIOS screen either, totally threw me to start with. Which slots are you using for the first four cards?

[MarkAz]

Ok, so with it set to autodetect, what do they actually connect as? GEN 1, 2 or 3? GPU-z will tell, you, I'm really curious.

I'm not a fan of the BIOS screen either, totally threw me to start with. Which slots are you using for the first four cards?

According to GPU-Z, 1x is running at 1x 3.0, the other 3x are running at 1x 2.0.  As far as slots, I number my slots if you're looking at the motherboard from the back, where the connectors are, from left to right, 1 thru 7.  So I'm using 1-4 right now, but I did try 1, 3, 5, 7 and it worked the same (just interested in seeing if there was a temp difference in my current design - there wasn't with these cards at least).

[Walrusbonzo]

Ok, so with it set to autodetect, what do they actually connect as? GEN 1, 2 or 3? GPU-z will tell, you, I'm really curious.

I'm not a fan of the BIOS screen either, totally threw me to start with. Which slots are you using for the first four cards?

According to GPU-Z, 1x is running at 1x 3.0, the other 3x are running at 1x 2.0.  As far as slots, I number my slots if you're looking at the motherboard from the back, where the connectors are, from left to right, 1 thru 7.  So I'm using 1-4 right now, but I did try 1, 3, 5, 7 and it worked the same (just interested in seeing if there was a temp difference in my current design - there wasn't with these cards at least).

Thanks again. Good info to have, based on your numbering, slots 3,4 and 6 are a no go for me. I've now moved out two more 290x from one mining rig and put in place two RX480. So all the 1x slots were taken by RX480s. I changed the mode to GEN2 and it did boot to Windows, but it was really flaky, wouldn't mine on one of the cards and eventually crashed with a "thread stuck in device driver" error. So it seems I have slightly more luck with the RX480s than the 290x. But still there really is an issue. Fingers crossed the cables sort it out.

[MarkAz]

Thanks again. Good info to have, based on your numbering, slots 3,4 and 6 are a no go for me. I've now moved out two more 290x from one mining rig and put in place two RX480. So all the 1x slots were taken by RX480s. I changed the mode to GEN2 and it did boot to Windows, but it was really flaky, wouldn't mine on one of the cards and eventually crashed with a "thread stuck in device driver" error. So it seems I have slightly more luck with the RX480s than the 290x. But still there really is an issue. Fingers crossed the cables sort it out.

No problem - personally I've found the ATI drivers to be a bit of a nightmare.  With this latest build with 4GB RX480's, I had the dreaded 4MH/s issue - which basically went away after uninstalling and reinstalling the drivers a couple times.  No real logic to it - I tried moving the boards and other things first, and was just uninstalling and reinstalling as a byproduct of other things I was trying, then they worked.  Really drives me crazy - but is also why I always make an image once it works and use it from then on. 
 

[Walrusbonzo]

Woohoo.... Problem solved. It was the USB cables all along. Ordered some "higher quality" ones yesterday and now it all works. got 5 boards running on the MSI board with Windows.

Only problem is now that I've found one of the 16x riser boards is faulty and therefore I'm 3 risers short in order to fully populate this MSI board and the ASRock board.

Time to order new risers, but not the ones I've been buying so far.

[MarkAz]

Woohoo.... Problem solved. It was the USB cables all along. Ordered some "higher quality" ones yesterday and now it all works. got 5 boards running on the MSI board with Windows.

Only problem is now that I've found one of the 16x riser boards is faulty and therefore I'm 3 risers short in order to fully populate this MSI board and the ASRock board.

Time to order new risers, but not the ones I've been buying so far.

Glad to hear it - I don't even bother with the USB cables they provide, just chuck them in the trash.  But on the riser side of things, I've found the quality of them all to be about the same, so your current provider is probably fine, just don't trust any of the Chinese USB cables.

[Walrusbonzo]

I'll order a different batch of boards on the off chance the cables work.

[MarkAz]

I'll order a different batch of boards on the off chance the cables work.

I've bought 4 different types of breakouts, and while the boards have all looked different the quality of the cables has been the same - crap.  Personally I wouldn't do it as if they make some crap cable where they connect two pins together by mistake or something else low quality cables are apt to do, you're going to be learning a very costly lesson... You kind of got off lucky this time in that it just didn't work (most common failure), and not that it cooked the board/motherboard or both.

[Walrusbonzo]

My my new batch of risers and cables came. Cables are way too short. But it's not stopped me putting together seven 290x into a rig with the MSI board. Getting 197mh/s for 1470w from the wall.

Next job is to complete the 6 card rig. I had hoped to put two 290x and four RX480 in it, but for some odd reason, as soon as I plug in a second RX480 one of the 290x is no longer detected by the PC. It doesn't even display in Windows device manager as a device with no driver installed, it just isn't there. As soon as I unplug all but RX480 it reappears and works as expected.

So might have my hand forced and put six RX480 together in the same rig which means moving two 290x to my main PC. Not a terrible compromise.



So for anyone else struggling to setup multiple cards on some motherboards, check the USB cables used with the risers, chances are they're rubbish and you need higher quality ones.

[navydude]

Where did you get your cables. I have 20+ cards just sitting but 8 dollars for each usb cable is crazy high. Thats about the cheapest i can find. Where are you buying?

Edit: Do they have to be 3.0?
Edit 2: Found on amazon for 8.99 for two 3.0  3 foot. Guess thats as cheap as they come without getting china brand. Ordering 6 packs now.

[MarkAz]

Where did you get your cables. I have 20+ cards just sitting but 8 dollars for each usb cable is crazy high. Thats about the cheapest i can find. Where are you buying?

Edit: Do they have to be 3.0?
Edit 2: Found on amazon for 8.99 for two 3.0  3 foot. Guess thats as cheap as they come without getting china brand. Ordering 6 packs now.

These are the exact ones I use:

http://amzn.to/2dZRw8V

Like you said, it's for 2x, so it's not as bad as $8 each, but it's not cheap either.  I just got tired of it almost always being the USB that caused issue and switched everything to these - haven't had a single cable-related issue.

They do have to be 3.0 cables, they utilize the different between v2 and v3 cables, so they won't work and could potentially damage things if you tried v2.

[Walrusbonzo]

Where did you get your cables. I have 20+ cards just sitting but 8 dollars for each usb cable is crazy high. Thats about the cheapest i can find. Where are you buying?

Edit: Do they have to be 3.0?
Edit 2: Found on amazon for 8.99 for two 3.0  3 foot. Guess thats as cheap as they come without getting china brand. Ordering 6 packs now.

I bought AWinner cables off Amazon - https://www.amazon.co.uk/AWINNER%C2%AE-Cable-Free-Lifetime-Replacement-Warranty/dp/B01JOH7K48/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1476814940&sr=1-3&keywords=awinner+usb+cable

[Tuner77]

Where did you get your cables. I have 20+ cards just sitting but 8 dollars for each usb cable is crazy high. Thats about the cheapest i can find. Where are you buying?

Edit: Do they have to be 3.0?
Edit 2: Found on amazon for 8.99 for two 3.0  3 foot. Guess thats as cheap as they come without getting china brand. Ordering 6 packs now.

These are the exact ones I use:

http://amzn.to/2dZRw8V

Like you said, it's for 2x, so it's not as bad as $8 each, but it's not cheap either.  I just got tired of it almost always being the USB that caused issue and switched everything to these - haven't had a single cable-related issue.

They do have to be 3.0 cables, they utilize the different between v2 and v3 cables, so they won't work and could potentially damage things if you tried v2.

This thread rules. I had my gaming 5 mining on six cards for a day but gentle cable adjustments sent it into a multi day disaster. I could get windows to see them but it always failed on one card while mining. No matter what I tried the problem seemed to migrate or get worse. Just ordered a bunch of cables. Praying it solves it.

Are either of you using an evga 1300w? I have to use some sata to molex for power but I've been told it's risky because sata connectors max at 4.5 amps, but some 470/480s pull up to 5amps from them. I saw a video of a guy building a seven card rig like I'm doing and he mentioned sapphire 470's don't do this, but I can't confirm. I have one sata cable per card for four, and two on molex lines (one per) but this power concern has me worried I may need to buy a bunch of molex adapters and other cables to get off sata connectors entirely.

[crazyearner]

Woohoo.... Problem solved. It was the USB cables all along. Ordered some "higher quality" ones yesterday and now it all works. got 5 boards running on the MSI board with Windows.

Only problem is now that I've found one of the 16x riser boards is faulty and therefore I'm 3 risers short in order to fully populate this MSI board and the ASRock board.

Time to order new risers, but not the ones I've been buying so far.

Was about to say raiser cables at fault any problems with card detection normally results in faulty or bad raiser cables. What ones where you using if you using them flappy ribbon ones they are cheap and not effective.  When I first started out I used them and within 15 min burnt though 2 cables sent back where I got and got refund though eBay.

Ones I highly recommend http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5X-USB3-0-PCI-E-Express-1x-To-16x-Extender-Riser-Card-Adapter-60CM-Power-Cable-/122124224111 All working flawless from this guy.


Might pay a little more for them but their well worth the extra money spent and some places it works out cheaper for the usb 3 version ones compared to ribbon.

Where did you get your cables. I have 20+ cards just sitting but 8 dollars for each usb cable is crazy high. Thats about the cheapest i can find. Where are you buying?

Edit: Do they have to be 3.0?
Edit 2: Found on amazon for 8.99 for two 3.0  3 foot. Guess thats as cheap as they come without getting china brand. Ordering 6 packs now.

These are the exact ones I use:

http://amzn.to/2dZRw8V

Like you said, it's for 2x, so it's not as bad as $8 each, but it's not cheap either.  I just got tired of it almost always being the USB that caused issue and switched everything to these - haven't had a single cable-related issue.

They do have to be 3.0 cables, they utilize the different between v2 and v3 cables, so they won't work and could potentially damage things if you tried v2.

This thread rules. I had my gaming 5 mining on six cards for a day but gentle cable adjustments sent it into a multi day disaster. I could get windows to see them but it always failed on one card while mining. No matter what I tried the problem seemed to migrate or get worse. Just ordered a bunch of cables. Praying it solves it.

Are either of you using an evga 1300w? I have to use some sata to molex for power but I've been told it's risky because sata connectors max at 4.5 amps, but some 470/480s pull up to 5amps from them. I saw a video of a guy building a seven card rig like I'm doing and he mentioned sapphire 470's don't do this, but I can't confirm. I have one sata cable per card for four, and two on molex lines (one per) but this power concern has me worried I may need to buy a bunch of molex adapters and other cables to get off sata connectors entirely.

With your raiser cables and power sata never have more than 3 cards per molex line as safe guard I just do 2 cards per power cable so I know it has juice for it and not going to over power. 3 is fine anymore on 1 cable is going to cause problems. Or if you want to be extra safe use 1 per cable if you have the room on psu to add in cables.