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Author Topic: Good pools that let you keep some of your block reward?  (Read 3269 times)
paramind22 (OP)
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October 09, 2016, 04:56:18 AM
 #1

Are there good BTC pools that let you keep some of your block reward?

jonnybravo0311
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October 09, 2016, 05:25:55 AM
 #2

Ummm... all pools let you keep part of the block reward... that's what pooled mining is.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
paramind22 (OP)
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October 09, 2016, 09:28:26 AM
 #3

Ummm... all pools let you keep part of the block reward... that's what pooled mining is.


You know what I mean.  You get a small part of the reward yes, but some pools directly pay you a large part if you
find a block (and much more than is distributed out to other users).  I'm pretty sure litecoinpool.org does not, so that's been my experience.

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October 09, 2016, 10:00:31 AM
 #4

Ummm... all pools let you keep part of the block reward... that's what pooled mining is.


You know what I mean.  You get a small part of the reward yes, but some pools directly pay you a large part if you
find a block (and much more than is distributed out to other users).  I'm pretty sure scamcoin pool does not, so that's been my experience.
Any pool that does this, must fund that by paying everyone else less than expected.

Block finding is luck, you can't make your miners find a block, they simply have an expected time to find a block.
The actual time may be anywhere from immediately to never.

Thus including a block finding reward increases variance for all miners.
If you don't care about increasing variance, then why not solo mine, since with solo mining, every time you find a block you get it all Tongue

Edit: ... as for altcoin pools, that's offtopic here, so who cares what scamcoin pools do.

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code - k for kano
The ONLY active original developer of cgminer. Original master git: https://github.com/kanoi/cgminer
paramind22 (OP)
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October 09, 2016, 10:02:41 AM
 #5

Ummm... all pools let you keep part of the block reward... that's what pooled mining is.


You know what I mean.  You get a small part of the reward yes, but some pools directly pay you a large part if you
find a block (and much more than is distributed out to other users).  I'm pretty sure litecoinpool.org does not, so that's been my experience.
Any pool that does this, must fund that by paying everyone else less than expected.

Block finding is luck, you can't make your miners find a block, they simply have an expected time to find a block.
The actual time may be anywhere from immediately to never.

Thus including a block finding reward increases variance for all miners.
If you don't care about increasing variance, then why not solo mine, since with solo mining, every time you find a block you get it all Tongue

It would be great to not have complete risk, like mine for a percentage but if you find a block get around 50% of it.  No pools do that?

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October 09, 2016, 10:07:11 AM
 #6

Ummm... all pools let you keep part of the block reward... that's what pooled mining is.


You know what I mean.  You get a small part of the reward yes, but some pools directly pay you a large part if you
find a block (and much more than is distributed out to other users).  I'm pretty sure  does not, so that's been my experience.
Any pool that does this, must fund that by paying everyone else less than expected.

Block finding is luck, you can't make your miners find a block, they simply have an expected time to find a block.
The actual time may be anywhere from immediately to never.

Thus including a block finding reward increases variance for all miners.
If you don't care about increasing variance, then why not solo mine, since with solo mining, every time you find a block you get it all Tongue

It would be great to not have complete risk, like mine for a percentage but if you find a block get around 50% of it.  No pools do that?
So why would everyone mining on a pool want to be paid 50% PPS except when they find a block?
As I already said at the start of my reply:

Quote
Any pool that does this, must fund that by paying everyone else less than expected.

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code - k for kano
The ONLY active original developer of cgminer. Original master git: https://github.com/kanoi/cgminer
philipma1957
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October 09, 2016, 11:14:40 AM
 #7

Are there good BTC pools that let you keep some of your block reward?

The best pool for this is mmpool.org

They give you all transaction fees.

so if you hit a block  with  .5 transaction fees  it is your bonus.

I mine with two pools kano.is  and mmpool.org


http://mmpool.org/  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=559011.0

 I have hit 2 blocks here and have received the transaction fees twice

 he gives transaction fees to the block winner - downside small pool can take 1 month or more to hit a block.




https://www.kano.is/ d
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.0
 
he splits transaction fees with all the miners- downside none the best pool  around


I mine 2.3 th with mmpool
I mine 23th with kano

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.
.. PLAY NOW ..
jonnybravo0311
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October 09, 2016, 03:09:05 PM
 #8

I didn't know mmpool paid all block transaction fees to the block finder.  Learned something new.  Thanks, Phil Smiley

@paramind22, p2pool also gives the block finder a small bonus: 0.5%.  However, as kano correctly points out, that means all the other miners are making less per block.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
philipma1957
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October 09, 2016, 03:44:13 PM
 #9

I didn't know mmpool paid all block transaction fees to the block finder.  Learned something new.  Thanks, Phil Smiley

@paramind22, p2pool also gives the block finder a small bonus: 0.5%.  However, as kano correctly points out, that means all the other miners are making less per block.

your bonus offers does not come from the block rewards at all.


  I do mine with you and you offer promos  as high as 1 btc to a block finder above and beyond the block money. Ie you pay the bonus from separate money.

This way miners get the full amounts and the block finder gets extra that does not hurt the miners in any way.

you have given over 4 btc in promos  I got one for .5 btc and in the current block you pool is working on I have more then 2.8 billion shares of work

your promos are mentioned here:


http://www.bravo-mining.com/

and see below that i have 8th place for this current block work

Rank   Donor   User Name   Shares
1      jonnybravo   19,432,804,240
2      VeNoMZiTo    8,303,555,880
3      Chuckmist3r   7,901,317,764
4      dennishh           4,796,844,734
5      dmasys             3,473,688,374
6      njmnokc           3,207,114,554
7      rodneyrod           2,982,541,059
8      philipma1957   2,890,066,536

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▀▀███████▀▀
.
 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
.
.. PLAY NOW ..
jonnybravo0311
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October 09, 2016, 04:10:39 PM
 #10

That's correct.  I offer promos and pay out of my own pocket.  This is above and beyond the block reward and transaction fees that miners earn on the pool.  Here's what I've paid out in promos:

1BTC to VeNoMZiTo
1BTC to YuenglingDude
3BTC to Borachinua
1BTC to rozo
2BTC to dsppage
1.5BTC to kilo17
0.5BTC to philipma1957 (birthday promo)

Yeah, I've paid out quite a bit of coin to my miners Smiley.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
paramind22 (OP)
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October 09, 2016, 04:35:32 PM
 #11

That's correct.  I offer promos and pay out of my own pocket.  This is above and beyond the block reward and transaction fees that miners earn on the pool.  Here's what I've paid out in promos:

1BTC to VeNoMZiTo
1BTC to YuenglingDude
3BTC to Borachinua
1BTC to rozo
2BTC to dsppage
1.5BTC to kilo17
0.5BTC to philipma1957 (birthday promo)

Yeah, I've paid out quite a bit of coin to my miners Smiley.

That's great...so this is not solo mining but pool mining where all work is rewarded?

jonnybravo0311
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October 09, 2016, 04:54:34 PM
 #12

Yes, that's correct.  All of those bonus payouts came from my own pocket, not from my miners.  You can check out my pool thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1330452.0 to see more details.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
philipma1957
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October 09, 2016, 04:58:38 PM
 #13

That's correct.  I offer promos and pay out of my own pocket.  This is above and beyond the block reward and transaction fees that miners earn on the pool.  Here's what I've paid out in promos:

1BTC to VeNoMZiTo
1BTC to YuenglingDude
3BTC to Borachinua
1BTC to rozo
2BTC to dsppage
1.5BTC to kilo17
0.5BTC to philipma1957 (birthday promo)

Yeah, I've paid out quite a bit of coin to my miners Smiley.

That's great...so this is not solo mining but pool mining where all work is rewarded?

yes he does that  and he uses 5n share average.  which means  in the beginning your average will be lower  

kano use 5n share average and mmpool uses double geometric method which also means in the beginning your share is smaller.

but in the case of  jonny bravo or mmpool if you hit the block you get the full bonus or fee. from those two pools.

I am lazy as the really explain this takes about 500 words.  why these three pools ae pretty much your best value pools at the moment.

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▀██████████████████▀
▀███████████████▀
▀▀███████▀▀
.
 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
.
.. PLAY NOW ..
Meuh6879
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October 09, 2016, 10:29:41 PM
 #14

You get a small part of the reward yes, but some pools directly pay you a large part.



hint : in 2014, i have mine 1 year without find a block (and alone, not in a pool).


do the maths.
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October 09, 2016, 10:56:11 PM
 #15

Yes, that's correct.  All of those bonus payouts came from my own pocket, not from my miners.  You can check out my pool thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1330452.0 to see more details.
Heh yeah OK

I've given out 8 miners since running the pool - that the manufacturers paid for Smiley
1 Spondoolies-Tech SP20
2 Avalon 4.1
5 Avalon A6

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code - k for kano
The ONLY active original developer of cgminer. Original master git: https://github.com/kanoi/cgminer
jonnybravo0311
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October 09, 2016, 11:31:01 PM
 #16

That you have Smiley.  I remember that SP20 promo... won by a miner with user name something like sp20winner...

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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October 09, 2016, 11:54:00 PM
 #17

That you have Smiley.  I remember that SP20 promo... won by a miner with user name something like sp20winner...
Indeed - and that miner name ... almost sounded just like I faked it Cheesy

In that case, spondoolies contacted me (as a cgminer developer) and asked me if I wanted an SP20
I responded with the suggestion of making it prize on the pool.

Now if Avalon could release the A7 ... and then offer to give away some of them ...
Here's hoping Cheesy

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code - k for kano
The ONLY active original developer of cgminer. Original master git: https://github.com/kanoi/cgminer
paramind22 (OP)
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October 09, 2016, 11:56:46 PM
 #18

Are there good BTC pools that let you keep some of your block reward?

The best pool for this is mmpool.org

They give you all transaction fees.

so if you hit a block  with  .5 transaction fees  it is your bonus.

I mine with two pools kano.is  and mmpool.org


http://mmpool.org/  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=559011.0

 I have hit 2 blocks here and have received the transaction fees twice

 he gives transaction fees to the block winner - downside small pool can take 1 month or more to hit a block.




https://www.kano.is/ d
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.0
 
he splits transaction fees with all the miners- downside none the best pool  around


I mine 2.3 th with mmpool
I mine 23th with kano


Thanks for all the info everyone.  Sorry to ask newbie questions, I'm getting a lot out of the discussion, but it's mostly stuff to study.  Simple question, does this mean
that miners who don't have higher hashrates and are using much smaller ASICs still have a chance to lose all their time mining for these two pools?  I just started this
month and still deciding which bigger ASIC to buy.


jonnybravo0311
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October 10, 2016, 03:41:52 AM
 #19

Higher hash rates just mean you submit more hashes in a given timeframe.  With the payout mechanism used on pools like mine and kano's your hashes are valid for a known window (on our pools, that's 5 times the current network difficulty).  In other words, if you submit one hash right now, 1292613742023 hashes later, that hash would fall out of the window.  What this means is that you would expect that hash to be paid 5 times.

This explains Phil's comments from earlier where you get a lower payout at first.  A lot of times you'll hear the phrases "ramp up" and "ramp down".  Here's an explanation of PPLNS from another of my posts:

Quote
Assume you have an empty glass in front of you.  Now, you start pouring water into the glass.  Every now and then I'm going to come by and take a look at that glass and measure how much water you've got in it.  The first time I come by, you've got the glass only 1/5th of the way full.  I mark that down and pay you for 1/5th of a glass of water.  I come by a while later and you've got the glass 2/5 full.  OK, I mark it down and pay you for 2/5 of a glass of water.  This continues until the glass is full of water.  Once your glass is full I pay you for a full glass of water, but I also now open a valve at the bottom of the glass so that water drains out as fast as you're pouring it in.  In this fashion, your glass will always be full of water and every time I stop by, I see you've got a full glass and pay you for it.

Eventually, you stop pouring water into the glass.  However, that valve is still open, so the water is draining at the same rate you were pouring.  When I stop by the next time, I see you've only got 4/5 of a glass, so I pay you for that much.  The time after that, the glass is only 3/5 full, so I pay you for that.  This continues until the glass is empty.

In my story above, every time I stopped by is equivalent to the finding of a block.  I see how much water you have in the glass and pay you for however much is there.  My story assumed I stopped by at even intervals of time, so you'd always know when to expect me.

So, how does luck play into it?  Well, every time I stopped by, I made sure to calibrate that valve on the bottom of the glass.  If I stopped by more often than expected, I'd mark you down and pay you.  If I stopped by less than expected, the valve would clog up and the water you were pouring in would slosh over the edge of the glass and be wasted.  When I finally did stop by, I would notice you had a full glass, and pay you for it, then fix the valve so that the pour rate equaled the drain rate.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
paramind22 (OP)
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October 10, 2016, 03:44:33 AM
 #20

I'm pointed at mmpool now.   I love the way it supports all these small coins with merged mining.  I noticed that it said something about LTC in the cgminer window, yet I don't remember that being one of the coin choices.  What was that about? 

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