Bitcoin is being invaded by Leftists

[bitbunnny]

Leftist invasion on Bitcoin?! You watch too much movie. Or X-files series. This is just another conspiracy theory based on nothing with the aim to make panic and fear among Bitcoin users.
And if something is published online or in media that doesn't mean it is true.

[RealBitcoin]

Nothing that happens in the world can be completely isolated from the rest of the world. The identity of anything in the world is the result of the clash of prevailing forces and can never be 100% pure. Bitcoin is no different, its identity is being molded from pressure on all sides. Nothing that anyone can do about it, unless you want to take up arms and try to enforce your ideals  
BTW I don't think democracy is any better than dictatorship, they are both flawed.

I'd just wish bitcoin users were intelligent and rational, but even this is too much to ask.

Bitcoin started out very good, with intelligent people leading it, but now more and more dumb people come up with their stupid ideas is concerning to me.

[requester]

RealBitcoin you are super hero in bitcoin world and in this forum. I am really inspired with your words and I think real people have many role to control bitcoin network. people could destroy or could promote bitcoin so everything depends upon the person's intention.

[RealBitcoin]

The left/right isn't a political spectrum, it's a divide and conquer tactic, whereby liberalism gets split into economic liberalism and social liberalism, and then one side is fed arguments about why the other is the source of all problems.

The best approach is to never use the left/right concept, as you're always going to look like a reflexive partisan, one step away from using the non-argument "you're just one of them!"

This is why libertarianism and the various other anarchy inspired political ideologies are popular among Bitcoiners; they appear to be left-right blind, taking ideas from the left or the right as long as they promote liberty.

please don't bring this talk about left or right or religion into bitcoin. it is "just" a way of paying that everybody can use.
bringing bitcoin into these kind of conflicts can cause serious damage, because if they think bitcoin is on way or the other there will be no united front and bitcoin will lose strength.

Look bitcoin is always political, and it will always be. You cannot talk about bitcoin and ignore the fundamental reality. And yes Carlton Banks, it is a foolish idea to fit both left & right ideas into bitcoin, it should be only right.

Look, bitcoin was created against the socialist keynesian fiat banking system, keynesianism is the single most enabler of socialism, it was created by socialists to enable socialism worldwide.

Now every country is pretty much dominated by leftists, and look at the misery , debt and poverty they have caused.


Bitcoin is supposed to be a libertarian tool, by design, anything that is anti-keynesian fiat money, is by default libertarian, nobody can ignore this.


And now if you  start inviting leftists into Bitcoin, they will start making it a fiat money, first by raising blocks, then by raising the 21 million limit.


I mean leftists have clearly a no sense of reality, and they cant comprehend the nature of limited resources, to them a 1 mb block or a 21 million coin limit is an insult.


It's the same people pushing for big blocks, as for pushing higher taxes in your country, you have to realize that bitcoin cannot stay politically neutral or risk being taken over by silly ideas, and that will be the end of it.

[franky1]

fiat was created for capitalists. seems you really are left-right blind

you want dictatorship, capitalism control which is the same as banks.
we shoud however not have a single leader deciding the law of bitcoin.

it should be diverse and open. that no one can be a super power of control.

im not sure if you are naive, or a master of deception to bait and switch people into thinking left is right, good is bad and red is green
but either way, you are failing in this topic because your dictator ideologies are too transparent. which fails you at attempting to drum up some fanboy following of the libertarian crowd. they can see right through your misleading posts.

bitcoin should have no single power house and instead have multiple decentralized hubs which all find some consensual agreement.
by having their own ideologies and then coming to a compromise that fits the majority.

EG no power house forcing 1mb base 4mb weight.
EG no power house forcing 8mb base
EG no power house forcing 2mb base
but compromise of 2mb base 4mb weight. which the consensus mechanism then has a chance of upgrading the rules due to majority approval without dictatorship. so then everyone gets what they want

[RealBitcoin]

fiat was created for capitalists. seems you really are left-right blind

you want dictatorship, capitalism control which is the same as banks.
we shoud however not have a single leader deciding the law of bitcoin.

it should be diverse and open. that no one can be a super power of control.

im not sure if you are naive, or a master of deception to bait and switch people into thinking left is right, good is bad and red is green
but either way, you are failing in this topic because your dictator ideologies are too transparent. which fails you at attempting to drum up some fanboy following of the libertarian crowd. they can see right through your misleading posts.

bitcoin should have no single power house and instead have multiple decentralized hubs which all find some consensual agreement.
by having their own ideologies and then coming to a compromise that fits the majority.

EG no power house forcing 1mb base 4mb weight.
EG no power house forcing 8mb base
EG no power house forcing 2mb base
but compromise of 2mb base 4mb weight. which the consensus mechanism then has a chance of upgrading the rules due to majority approval without dictatorship. so then everyone gets what they want

Money is private property. If a person holds 1000 BTC, he has every right to be in monopoly over that.

If you invide 10 people to outvote him and redistribute his money, that is called theft.

Socialism is just theft, you fail to realize that bitcoin is not a democracy, it's people's money and savings, and that is not subject to democratic vote.

Everyone has a right to his money, and if some people don't allow them that right ,they are called thiefs.

but either way, you are failing in this topic because your dictator ideologies are too transparent. which fails you at attempting to drum up some fanboy following of the libertarian crowd. they can see right through your misleading posts.

You also have a hard time hiding your communist leanings. I mean what you are advocating is 100% communism.

Democratic vote over other people's money? Explain how that is not communism?

[Searing]

yep you caught me...its true.....

 I am a damn lefty trying to get BTC for use in micro banking in the 3rd world...a store of value as virtual gold in those places of the world with corrumpt banks and goverments
and say 40% plus inflation with their currency...BTC as an eventual method for folks in Africa with a cell phone and gmail say and BTC address to buy stuff off Amazon

yeah surely we are gonna run BTC off the rails with our liberal methods of adoption

[RealBitcoin]

yep you caught me...its true.....

 I am a damn lefty trying to get BTC for use in micro banking in the 3rd world...a store of value as virtual gold in those places of the world with corrumpt banks and goverments
and say 40% plus inflation with their currency...BTC as an eventual method for folks in Africa with a cell phone and gmail say and BTC address to buy stuff off Amazon

yeah surely we are gonna run BTC off the rails with our liberal methods of adoption

I also have those goals and I'm not a leftist. Why would you need to be a leftist to have those goals?

I am talking about left totalitarianism over bitcoin like implementing censorship in the nodes, capital controls, manipulated supply ,etc...

[franky1]

You also have a hard time hiding your communist leanings. I mean what you are advocating is 100% communism.

Democratic vote over other people's money? Explain how that is not communism?

read a book
dictatorship. 1 guy/1 group decides the laws and rules with no opposition
communism is all funds belong in single big multisig and people only get some if they ask everyone else nicely that they need it
socialism is funds belong to the people individually. but how and what laws of the community are made are decided by the community as one group
libertarianism is funds belong to the people individually. everyone has different ideas of the laws/rules and they come to a compromise to benefit the majority

you have highlighted your desire for a dictatorship/socialist hybrid.. no where have you shown an ounce of libertarian ideals.
EG
funds belong to the people individually. 1 guy/1 group decides the laws and rules with no opposition

my ideals are
funds belong to the people individually. everyone has different ideas of the laws/rules and they come to a compromise to benefit the majority

by the way you do realise your fanboy rhetorric of loving blockstream is real loud and its blockstream that want to slide in changes without actually needing nodes to vote. but run a fake election to appease the pretence of needing a vote.(softfork)
you do realise that blockstream want to mess with manipulating supply (sideshains/LN's millisat)
you do realise that blockstream want to censor nodes by calling anything not core a bad thing.

wake up!!

lets put this another way.. answer this
are you defecting away from your fanboyism of blockstream dictatorship to become a libertarian?
or
are you putting your head in the sand to remain a fan of blockstream dictatorship and misinterpret everything you see?

[Carlton Banks]

The left/right isn't a political spectrum, it's a divide and conquer tactic, whereby liberalism gets split into economic liberalism and social liberalism, and then one side is fed arguments about why the other is the source of all problems.

The best approach is to never use the left/right concept, as you're always going to look like a reflexive partisan, one step away from using the non-argument "you're just one of them!"

This is why libertarianism and the various other anarchy inspired political ideologies are popular among Bitcoiners; they appear to be left-right blind, taking ideas from the left or the right as long as they promote liberty.

Look bitcoin is always political, and it will always be. You cannot talk about bitcoin and ignore the fundamental reality. And yes Carlton Banks, it is a foolish idea to fit both left & right ideas into bitcoin, it should be only right.

Bitcoin transcends politics:


"Right" wins: Bitcoin enabled a sound money system that could not be stolen, confiscated, debased or disrupted

"Left" wins: Bitcoin enabled borderless money, rendering state imposed capital controls or trade tariffs meaningless

"Right" wins: Bitcoin removes Central Banking's monopoly on money supply & interest rates

"Left" wins: Bitcoin disrupted corporate monopoly on multiple types of financial services (investment, loans, gambling etc have all been liberalised)

"Right" wins: Bitcoin enabled all small business owners access to all the worldwide markets that large businesses do (and the cheap financial services fees that previously only larger businesses could access)

"Left" wins: Bitcoin enabled safer marketplace for illegal contraband that doesn't generate victims



It goes on and on.

If you cannot understand how "Left" has both Bad and Good aspects (as does "Right"), and that all apply equally to either Bitcoin or any other topic, then don't expect many to take your entrenched position seriously.

[yayayo]

I agree that the number of leftists / socialist retards has grown significantly in this forum. The ideas promoted by these people pervert the original motive for Bitcoin's creation: to increase monetary freedom.

Whatever ideological justification these people offer for their dictatorial plans, the underlying motive behind ideas like "equal distribution" is crystal clear. It's personal greed. These people were not among the pioneers of Bitcoin or even rejected it in the first place. Now that Bitcoin is substantially de-risked and has become successful they want to own more.

It's no surprise that many bigblock-fanatics and well known trolls like franky1 are also socialists, because they share the common goal of destroying freedom and individual responsibility.

ya.ya.yo!

[davis196]

I am a Hero of Bitcoin, I have been on this forum for almost 3 years, with an older account that I lost before creating this one. In my 3 years of Bitcoin journey I have seen a dramatic shift in the demographics and the political ideology of bitcoin users, and this worries me a lot.

3 years ago this forum used to be very libertarian with tons of good people around here promoting personal and financial freedom ideas, many of these old people are not even active anymore or rarely come online. It was the core of bitcoin users, probably early whales, but also very inspirational people.

Now in since 2014, but definitely since 2015, I have observed the increasing number of leftists on this forum posting nonsense and trying to hijack bitcoin. Now there are 2 kinds of leftist: the trendy leftist & the activist leftist. The trendy one is probably just interested in the technology, and the social aspect, this is ok.

The one I find dangerous is the activist leftist. They are essentially trying to make bitcoin a socialist/communist system through installing a democracy to govern it.

And this can be seen with the whole 2mb block debate (used to be 8mb and so on), but also I've seen several people agreeing to modifying the 21 million limit ,essentially creating a fiat money system to "redistribute wealth". I am not making this up, this is really this bad, these people are literally thiefs, leftists love to shoplift for example, and not just love it, but they actually ideologically promote it. Now I wonder what kind of ideology these bitcoin scammers have, I bet most of them are leftists too.

So we are being invaded by hordes of thieves, and their activism is stronger and stronger, look how many people cry out for banning Theymos or censoring posts on /r/btc subreddit that call them out on their BS.

The left loves censorship & propaganda.


What is next? Installing a Pension System into the bitcoin protocol? Automatic wealth redistribution? They would want it all if they could get away with it.

So if you are a wealthy bitcoin holder, you are a primary victim of this. I am not wealthy but I don't want bitcoin to fall into a leftist hellhole because then it will be guaranteed destroyed.

If you hold a lot of coins, this should concern you a lot, the more dumb people come into Bitcoin, the easier is to setup a Democracy, where obviously the majority will outvote you, and your money will get confiscated by them.

So after seeing all the stupid people rush into Bitcoin in the past 2 years, this became very concerning to me, and I fear this is a fundamental risk of bitcoin that nobody talks about.

The left is always cunning and manipulative and their power is in their numbers, they want you to believe that they are your friends but they are not, they just want to steal your money.

Bitcoin should stay ungoverned, but the more leftist join us, the more easy it will be to install a leftist democratic governance on Bitcoin.


Democracy is the worst thing that can happen to Bitcoin, that will be the end of Bitcoin

So if you have a lot of coins, don't just hold, promote liberty ideas, educate people on money and economics and stop the leftist hordes.

By leftists you mean socialists,i guess.

Perhaps 90% of all bitcoin users are poor people,and the poor people are mostly socialists.

This isn`t something bad.Everyone has it`s own opinion and it`s own ideas.

[pedrog]

I agree that the number of leftists / socialist retards has grown significantly in this forum. The ideas promoted by these people pervert the original motive for Bitcoin's creation: to increase monetary freedom.

Whatever ideological justification these people offer for their dictatorial plans, the underlying motive behind ideas like "equal distribution" is crystal clear. It's personal greed. These people were not among the pioneers of Bitcoin or even rejected it in the first place. Now that Bitcoin is substantially de-risked and has become successful they want to own more.

It's no surprise that many bigblock-fanatics and well known trolls like franky1 are also socialists, because they share the common goal of destroying freedom and individual responsibility.

ya.ya.yo!

But you're the one whining like a bitch...

BTW bosses already decided what they will do, why are you still bitching about bigger blocks?

[ObscureBean]

Money is private property. If a person holds 1000 BTC, he has every right to be in monopoly over that.

If you invide 10 people to outvote him and redistribute his money, that is called theft.

I totally agree with this logic. However you have to remember how man got to be king of the jungle, a single man cannot take down a lion but a group of men can. Man obeys no moral code, he simply takes what he wants and makes up any lame excuse for it. Today we're living in an urban jungle, man has conquered all of his foes except one, himself. And he's already started work on that last one.  

[franky1]

I agree that the number of leftists / socialist retards has grown significantly in this forum. The ideas promoted by these people pervert the original motive for Bitcoin's creation: to increase monetary freedom.

Whatever ideological justification these people offer for their dictatorial plans, the underlying motive behind ideas like "equal distribution" is crystal clear. It's personal greed. These people were not among the pioneers of Bitcoin or even rejected it in the first place. Now that Bitcoin is substantially de-risked and has become successful they want to own more.

It's no surprise that many bigblock-fanatics and well known trolls like franky1 are also socialists, because they share the common goal of destroying freedom and individual responsibility.

ya.ya.yo!

dictatorship is not individual responsibility. it destroys individual responsibility by letting one person/group dictate the rules
libertarianism is not destroying individual responsibility. .. libertarianism is literally allowing individual responsibility..

its a shame that you are soo confused.
by the way its the blockstream dictators that want big blocks. (4mb weight)
i have always had the libertarian mindset of compromise. which 2mb was a compromise. even 2mb bas 4mb weight is a compromise.

but you and other blockstream fanboys want the dictatorship

im still facepalming at how the blockstreamers want dictatorship but pretend anything not a dictatorship(the opposition) must be dictators.
its like a black person joining the KKK saying they are not black and they hate blacks. but just looking at them can easily see they are black

[Carlton Banks]

I agree that the number of leftists / socialist retards has grown significantly in this forum. The ideas promoted by these people pervert the original motive for Bitcoin's creation: to increase monetary freedom.

Whatever ideological justification these people offer for their dictatorial plans, the underlying motive behind ideas like "equal distribution" is crystal clear. It's personal greed. These people were not among the pioneers of Bitcoin or even rejected it in the first place. Now that Bitcoin is substantially de-risked and has become successful they want to own more.

I think it's really important to agree what we mean when we're talking about these especially contentious words (i.e. "left", "right", "socialism", "liberalism" etc).


Left != socialist. This is what's so nasty and insidious about the left/right dialectic, it blurs what should be harder dividing lines between the true political camps (the left-right division serves only as a form of meta-politics, to disrupt meaningful political debate by making it about labels instead of issues)


Left can be Socialist. Or Communist, even. But it also offers the original Classical Liberalism, which has none (or little) of the authoritarian wealth redistribution aspects of Socialism. And that's where all the thinking that produced Anarchism and Libertarianism originated from.

So, let's not write-off the "left" for being communists, any more than a self-described leftie might write us off as fascists. If RealBitcoin's views got much traction, Bitcoin might end up being condemned as "RacistCoin" by The Guardian, lol

[RealBitcoin]

The left/right isn't a political spectrum, it's a divide and conquer tactic, whereby liberalism gets split into economic liberalism and social liberalism, and then one side is fed arguments about why the other is the source of all problems.

The best approach is to never use the left/right concept, as you're always going to look like a reflexive partisan, one step away from using the non-argument "you're just one of them!"

This is why libertarianism and the various other anarchy inspired political ideologies are popular among Bitcoiners; they appear to be left-right blind, taking ideas from the left or the right as long as they promote liberty.

Look bitcoin is always political, and it will always be. You cannot talk about bitcoin and ignore the fundamental reality. And yes Carlton Banks, it is a foolish idea to fit both left & right ideas into bitcoin, it should be only right.

Bitcoin transcends politics:



"Left" wins: Bitcoin enabled borderless money, rendering state imposed capital controls or trade tariffs meaningless


"Left" wins: Bitcoin disrupted corporate monopoly on multiple types of financial services (investment, loans, gambling etc have all been liberalised)


"Left" wins: Bitcoin enabled safer marketplace for illegal contraband that doesn't generate victims

Except that these are not left wing ideas, they are right wing ideas that have been hijacked by leftists.

Capital controls are violating private property rights ,so they are not right wing.

Corporate monopoly is not good, certainly free market is preferable, which is again libertarian.

I also think many people would prefer legalization of plants, after all they are just plants.

So the ideas is freedom, yes freedom does transcend left/right, but the left doesnt bring any freedom to us, except gulags and poverty.

By leftists you mean socialists,i guess.

Perhaps 90% of all bitcoin users are poor people,and the poor people are mostly socialists.

This isn`t something bad.Everyone has it`s own opinion and it`s own ideas.

No , poor =/=  socialist.

Most people are poor, but they still want to work hard and want their work respected by not stealing 50% of their income from them.

Poor people would want to go up the ladder, but guess who is keeping them down with 50% taxes?

Money is private property. If a person holds 1000 BTC, he has every right to be in monopoly over that.

If you invide 10 people to outvote him and redistribute his money, that is called theft.

I totally agree with this logic. However you have to remember how man got to be king of the jungle, a single man cannot take down a lion but a group of men can. Man obeys no moral code, he simply takes what he wants and makes up any lame excuse for it. Today we're living in an urban jungle, man has conquered all of his foes except one, himself. And he's already started work on that last one.  

Ok but hunting down a lion by a group of 10 people and sharing the loot is not the same as:


People creating bitcoin, people working hard on it, and then new people join and they want to steal the benefits of it for their personal gain.

That's like if those 10 people hunted down the lion, and another 1000 people come to steal the loot.

[franky1]

"realbitcoin" your a hypocrite

hypocrisy one:
with one hand he say corporate monopoly is bad
with another hand he says competition is bad..

hypocrisy two:
with one hand he says freedom (freedom is having no barriers of entry)
with another hand he says its an invasion(invasion is deciding certain people are not allowed in)

hypocrisy three:
with one hand he says individual ownership
with another hand he says loves the idea of moving everyone to duel signing authorisation of LN and sidechains and liquid alts

hypocrisy four:
with one hand he says dont steal 50%
with another hand he says fee war is good

[pedrog]

Muahh, muahh, muahh, I saw some ideas on the Internet I don't agree with, got triggered and made a topic just to get attention and whine about it like the little bitch I am...

Have you checked Tumblr?

I heard they have safe spaces there...

[Carlton Banks]

"realbitcoin" your a hypocrite

hypocrisy one:
with one hand he say corporate monopoly is bad
with another hand he says competition is bad..

hypocrisy two:
with one hand he says freedom (freedom is having no barriers of entry)
with another hand he says its an invasion(invasion is deciding certain people are not allowed in)

hypocrisy three:
with one hand he says individual ownership
with another hand he says loves the idea of moving everyone to duel signing authorisation of LN and sidechains and liquid alts

hypocrisy four:
with one hand he says dont steal 50%
with another hand he says fee war is good

You're trying to take over a privately owned sound-money business, Franky, not a public institution. So you don't get any freedom to vote on the business, because the Bitcoin project is not your property. Your BTC are your property. Understand yet? lol