BetterBets - Not Provably Fair AGAIN

[LunchablesFit]

BetterBets, what is going on?

A week or so back you were accused of not allowing users to take advantage of the full client seed range that moneypot offers.

Today,  I visit your site and I realized i can't even set the client seed anymore. When hitting save, it does nothing. Its a hoax. The client seed does not update, it uses your "next random" seed. You don't even allow the user to disable seed randomization anymore. WTF, you don't even update the client seed in the input, it requires a full browser refresh to view the next client seed.  You physically can only hit the my account tab once. I thought this may have been a browser issue, but I tested in both FireFox and Chrome and was presented with the same result.

Why is that? Is it because your first attempt to forfeit the rights of the player in your "provably fair" system was discovered? I pity your website. You are a disgrace to your users. What is so hard by allowing users to set seeds in the full range? All of the major dice sites do it and if you ever even want to be a player you need to get with the program.

Its no wonder Moneypot is sputtering, its crappy app owners like yourself that bring them a bad name.

[AcoinL.L.C]

How about you post from your real account

[BetterBetsDev]

BetterBets, what is going on?

A week or so back you were accused of not allowing users to take advantage of the full client seed range that moneypot offers.

Today,  I visit your site and I realized i can't even set the client seed anymore. When hitting save, it does nothing. Its a hoax. The client seed does not update, it uses your "next random" seed. You don't even allow the user to disable seed randomization anymore. WTF, you don't even update the client seed in the input, it requires a full browser refresh to view the next client seed.  You physically can only hit the my account tab once. I thought this may have been a browser issue, but I tested in both FireFox and Chrome and was presented with the same result.

Why is that? Is it because your first attempt to forfeit the rights of the player in your "provably fair" system was discovered? I pity your website. You are a disgrace to your users. What is so hard by allowing users to set seeds in the full range? All of the major dice sites do it and if you ever even want to be a player you need to get with the program.

Its no wonder Moneypot is sputtering, its crappy app owners like yourself that bring them a bad name.

If you would have read the previous thread, you would have noticed that our revamp of the provably fair system was mostly done but not quite complete yet. It will be completed by next Monday ...

Also, did you ensure to press Ctrl-Reload to force your browser to force your browser to load the latest version of the altered javascript files? I just tested this and it seems to work OK.

You don't even allow the user to disable seed randomization anymore.

According to everybody, disabling client seed randomization is a bad idea since it makes things predictable for the party processing the bet.


EDIT: To make sure everybody got the lates update, I disabled the cloudflare cache for now.

[LunchablesFit]

Since your server is making the generation of the random  it makes it no different than a static seed. You should offer the ability for both. Some people have lucky numbers. And your code still does not work. My account cannot be expanded unless you reload. Seed won't save. I suggest if this is not by design that you do some compatibility checking

[RHavar]

Since your server is making the generation of the random  it makes it no different than a static seed. You should offer the ability for both.

Hmm, actually I don't believe there's any reason the server should ever be generating the client seeds, but I'm assuming they're going to fix that.

Also supporting a static client seed seems kind of pointless, and I personally wouldn't bother; but I guess gamblers are a superstitious bunch and if there's enough demand for that it makes sense. However, as you say the client seed should definitely be user-editable, so if users don't trust the client-seed generation they can do it themselves.

Anyway in the previous thread, BetterBetsDev said he's working on the fixes, so you're kind of beating a dead horse here.

It's pretty clear that they're not trying to cheat anyone, and people do have other real life commitments -- so I think it's fair to give them another week or so to finish it up =)

[NLNico]

Since your server is making the generation of the random  it makes it no different than a static seed. You should offer the ability for both. Some people have lucky numbers.

The clientseed is generated randomly in the browser - not on the server. Having a static seed at a "per roll implementation" is not provably fair (imo) and allows the gambling site to cheat. Being provably fair should be more important than fulfilling someone's superstition IMO.

In theory a combination is possible, when using a hash of chosen static clientseed + a nonce. Fixing the provably fair implementation should be the priority though. If this extra feature is really a big demand from players, they can always add this later.



PS, I agree the provably fair implementation is not yet perfect, as noted in my last post in the previous thread. But it seems clear to me that the dev is working on it.

[RHavar]

The clientseed is generated randomly in the browser - not on the server.

I think it's currently being generated by server. When the user makes a bet, it does a POST request to:

Code:

/ep/ajax/?func=placeBetDice

which returns a field:

Code:

csNext

which is then used as the next client seed. Although I'm really not sure why they're not using the gist I provided in the thread (generating client seeds on the server actually seems like more work, tbh). But I'm assuming it's on the TODO list in the next update.

[NLNico]

'csNext' is not returned, it is a parameter in the request They generate that clientseed randomly in the browser with the RNG you provided.. so that is fine. The problem is that they are sending it to the server already before getting the next serverseed hash (which is my first point in my last post in that previous thread )

[RHavar]

'csNext' is not returned, it is a parameter in the request

Ohhhh touché, you're absolutely right. I am true moron. Mixing up the request and a response is a rather humiliating new low for me.

Anyway, that makes 100x more sense, and explains why they're doing it: so they can have it saved across all sessions (even though it's not ideal).  BTW well done on the monumental effort you put in that whole investigation/write-up. 

[girlbtc.com]

a non-registeration  non-account  game seems more fair

bitcoin here is for discentralise.  why we make the games centralized.

like the dice , ( only the master know the server salt) , it is in some case not fair to the customers.

hummm.....just a little think

[BetterBetsDev]

Since your server is making the generation of the random  it makes it no different than a static seed. You should offer the ability for both. Some people have lucky numbers. And your code still does not work. My account cannot be expanded unless you reload. Seed won't save. I suggest if this is not by design that you do some compatibility checking

It would be appreciated if you would not throw out baseless claims. As others have said, the client seed it is generated on the client, as it should be

Some people have lucky numbers.

I really doubt that but lets for the time being assume that some people believe to have lucky numbers. Even so, (NLNico explained this quite nicely) keeping the client seed constant is opening up a potential cheating avenue for the processing server, so I don't think this is a good idea.

Seed won't save.

I just tried it again. Seed saves perfectly fine and is used on the next roll. Once the next bet is placed, the seed field in the user account panel updates to display the new/current seed.

My account cannot be expanded unless you reload.

I just tried it and it works perfectly fine, several times in a row. However, it's being pushed below the provably fair info which I will admit is not the smartest thing to do. I'll fix that, hopefully today.


So far everything you have said it blatantly false. Please go play somewhere else.

[BetterBetsDev]

'csNext' is not returned, it is a parameter in the request They generate that clientseed randomly in the browser with the RNG you provided.. so that is fine. The problem is that they are sending it to the server already before getting the next serverseed hash (which is my first point in my last post in that previous thread )

The reason we do this is that it allows us to verify client seed integrity against the user profile. The next server seed is not sent to Moneypot, so they don't know it.

However, for the client seed this probably doesn't matter, so it's probably best to disable this feature.

[LunchablesFit]

Since your server is making the generation of the random  it makes it no different than a static seed. You should offer the ability for both. Some people have lucky numbers. And your code still does not work. My account cannot be expanded unless you reload. Seed won't save. I suggest if this is not by design that you do some compatibility checking

It would be appreciated if you would not throw out baseless claims. As others have said, the client seed it is generated on the client, as it should be

Some people have lucky numbers.

I really doubt that but lets for the time being assume that some people believe to have lucky numbers. Even so, (NLNico explained this quite nicely) keeping the client seed constant is opening up a potential cheating avenue for the processing server, so I don't think this is a good idea.

Seed won't save.

I just tried it again. Seed saves perfectly fine and is used on the next roll. Once the next bet is placed, the seed field in the user account panel updates to display the new/current seed.

My account cannot be expanded unless you reload.

I just tried it and it works perfectly fine, several times in a row. However, it's being pushed below the provably fair info which I will admit is not the smartest thing to do. I'll fix that, hopefully today.


So far everything you have said it blatantly false. Please go play somewhere else.

What browser are you using? does not work in Chrome

[BetterBetsDev]

Since your server is making the generation of the random  it makes it no different than a static seed. You should offer the ability for both. Some people have lucky numbers. And your code still does not work. My account cannot be expanded unless you reload. Seed won't save. I suggest if this is not by design that you do some compatibility checking

It would be appreciated if you would not throw out baseless claims. As others have said, the client seed it is generated on the client, as it should be

Some people have lucky numbers.

I really doubt that but lets for the time being assume that some people believe to have lucky numbers. Even so, (NLNico explained this quite nicely) keeping the client seed constant is opening up a potential cheating avenue for the processing server, so I don't think this is a good idea.

Seed won't save.

I just tried it again. Seed saves perfectly fine and is used on the next roll. Once the next bet is placed, the seed field in the user account panel updates to display the new/current seed.

My account cannot be expanded unless you reload.

I just tried it and it works perfectly fine, several times in a row. However, it's being pushed below the provably fair info which I will admit is not the smartest thing to do. I'll fix that, hopefully today.


So far everything you have said it blatantly false. Please go play somewhere else.

What browser are you using? does not work in Chrome

I use Chrome, which is our recommended browser. Tell me exactly step by step what you're doing.

[5ato5hi8itcoin]

I also thought the same about this why using moneypot, only a few people know how it works

[newIndia]

I also thought the same about this why using moneypot, only a few people know how it works

Only a few people know how MoneyPot works!

[BetterBetsDev]

I also thought the same about this why using moneypot, only a few people know how it works

Only a few people know how MoneyPot works!

I quite honestly have no idea what the original poster (5ato5hi8itcoin) was trying to say ...

[Skarner21]

I also thought the same about this why using moneypot, only a few people know how it works

Honestly not few many people are using money pots according to their many games out there many people are gamble and they are using money as for wallet source of funds..
Better to check well about betterbets provably fair and verify it and give as some clear statement here.

[zenitzz]

BetterBets, what is going on?

A week or so back you were accused of not allowing users to take advantage of the full client seed range that moneypot offers.

Today,  I visit your site and I realized i can't even set the client seed anymore. When hitting save, it does nothing. Its a hoax. The client seed does not update, it uses your "next random" seed. You don't even allow the user to disable seed randomization anymore. WTF, you don't even update the client seed in the input, it requires a full browser refresh to view the next client seed.  You physically can only hit the my account tab once. I thought this may have been a browser issue, but I tested in both FireFox and Chrome and was presented with the same result.

Why is that? Is it because your first attempt to forfeit the rights of the player in your "provably fair" system was discovered? I pity your website. You are a disgrace to your users. What is so hard by allowing users to set seeds in the full range? All of the major dice sites do it and if you ever even want to be a player you need to get with the program.

Its no wonder Moneypot is sputtering, its crappy app owners like yourself that bring them a bad name.

There are many gamblers who play there and a lot of games are quite popular on the moneypot so i don't believe it in your words "Not Provably Fair AGAIN" easy if they are not probably fair why they are growing fast.

[BetterBets.io]

I also thought the same about this why using moneypot, only a few people know how it works

Honestly not few many people are using money pots according to their many games out there many people are gamble and they are using money as for wallet source of funds..
Better to check well about betterbets provably fair and verify it and give as some clear statement here.

This subject has been beat into the ground there's no point anymore in replying to these threads. The people who have in depth knowledge of provably fair methods have kindly shown us ways to create a plethora of information to show fairness in many ways beyond anything shown on most sites. When we are able to work out the gui to be a bit more aesthetically pleasant to players we will. Right now development is concentrated on numerous tasks though.