Where do you store your electrum 12 word phrase?

[viking02]

Where do you guys keep your 12 word phrase?  Do you keep it on a piece of paper somewhere and put it somewhere no one knows?  Do you keep it in a bank safety deposit box at the bank?  Do most of you know the 12 word phrase just by memory?  That would be pretty hard I think.


What would be the worst place to put the 12 word phrase?


I'm also wondering but would it be good or bad idea to put it on say something like keepass?  Of course in order to access keepass, you need a copy of your keepass but also you need to have the master password for it.  And im sure most people do know their master password for their keepass and it isn't some long generated password right?  Thus im guessing putting it on your keepass would probably be probably the best idea?

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[drnash85]

Where do you guys keep your 12 word phrase?  Do you keep it on a piece of paper somewhere and put it somewhere no one knows?  Do you keep it in a bank safety deposit box at the bank?  Do most of you know the 12 word phrase just by memory?  That would be pretty hard I think.


What would be the worst place to put the 12 word phrase?


I'm also wondering but would it be good or bad idea to put it on say something like keepass?  Of course in order to access keepass, you need a copy of your keepass but also you need to have the master password for it.  And im sure most people do know their master password for their keepass and it isn't some long generated password right?  Thus im guessing putting it on your keepass would probably be probably the best idea?

Memorize you key, If you can memorize your country flag pledge you can memorize 12 words

[BTCLovingDude]

it really depends on you and how safe you feel in your home!
for example i have written my seed on a piece of paper and i am holding it in my desk drawer. and i am sure that even if a robber comes to my home he is not going to steal my piece of paper that has some gibberish written on it!!!

Memorize you key, If you can memorize your country flag pledge you can memorize 12 words

did you really do this yourself?
because seed is a set of random words, and memorizing random words that have no relationship together is so much harder than memorizing a sentence or rather a sentence with a tune in it.

[Cereberus]

I have done like this.

1. Make sure that when you install electrum your are 100% sure your PC doesn't contain any malware. (Linux OS is preferred)
2. Write down those 12 words in a word processing office document. Make a really strong password to this document. Something unique that makes sense only to you and no one else. Dictionary words are not advised.
3. This password protected document add it to RAR and also add a very strong password , something unique which only you can remember.
4. Put this file in 2-3-4-5 or more USB-sticks and keep them in a safe place. Chances are very low that they all stop working in the same time.

You cannot keep the seed words better than this way in my opinion.

[viking02]

what about typing it in keepass?  Wouldn't that be good enough though?  Thus almost everyone knows their masterkey for keepass. 


thoughts on this?

[pooya87]

what about typing it in keepass?  Wouldn't that be good enough though?  Thus almost everyone knows their masterkey for keepass. 


thoughts on this?

it is good and open source, so if you feel comfortable with using it, then yes it is a good way for you. you just have to make sure to use a strong password for the encryption and then store the encrypted file in a safe place and make some backups so if there was a hard disk failure or something like that you don't lose it.

[viking02]

so keep a copy of keepass on computer, on an external hard drive and on a cloud service like dropbox and thats good enough?


Also you mention use a strong password for encryption.  Are you talking about the keepass?  Or electrum?  The thing is don't most people use a password they can remember on keepass?  I mean... are there people that put something like ajlfdjakfj;ladjsfkadjsfkljasfjadsl;fkajsdkl as their masterpassword on keepass?  The thing is shouldn't it be a password that you can remember?  Because if it was something like that, then you have to write that password down somewhere right? 

[pooya87]

yes i am talking about the password you use for your keepass.
if you choose a simple weak password like "viking02" for example, it can be broken easily by brute forcing or a dictionary attack. and obviously you will have to remember that password and also make a back up.

[NorrisK]

There are also tricks to remembering 12 word phrases. Say the first few words of your phrase were carpet, horse, dog, cat, fire

You simply need to think of a place you know very well (child house for example) and for instance imagining going from the front door to your bedroom.

On the way to the front door you see a carpet on your doorstep instead of a door mat, when you look closer to the carpet, you see that there is a horse on it. But that's not all, something funny is going on, a dog is riding the horse! When you look up, you see a giant cat sitting behind the window. Oh no, it is not a cat! It is a lion! and his manes are on fire.

Probably just from reading a story like this, you already envision something. By making it a bit funny or crazy, your mind will easily remember it.

It may need some practice, and at first you definately want to write down the words for back up. It is also important to walk through the memory palace once in a while to keep the memory fresh.

[Pursuer]

There are also tricks to remembering 12 word phrases. Say the first few words of your phrase were carpet, horse, dog, cat, fire

You simply need to think of a place you know very well (child house for example) and for instance imagining going from the front door to your bedroom.

On the way to the front door you see a carpet on your doorstep instead of a door mat, when you look closer to the carpet, you see that there is a horse on it. But that's not all, something funny is going on, a dog is riding the horse! When you look up, you see a giant cat sitting behind the window. Oh no, it is not a cat! It is a lion! and his manes are on fire.

Probably just from reading a story like this, you already envision something. By making it a bit funny or crazy, your mind will easily remember it.

It may need some practice, and at first you definately want to write down the words for back up. It is also important to walk through the memory palace once in a while to keep the memory fresh.

this is an interesting thing but the problem is that you are not so lucky to get a word set like that, so you can make a connection in your mind for remembering it. besides if you memorize it and in a year from now you want to remember it and forget if it was dog first or cat or another cattle you are screwed!

[viking02]

There are also tricks to remembering 12 word phrases. Say the first few words of your phrase were carpet, horse, dog, cat, fire

You simply need to think of a place you know very well (child house for example) and for instance imagining going from the front door to your bedroom.

On the way to the front door you see a carpet on your doorstep instead of a door mat, when you look closer to the carpet, you see that there is a horse on it. But that's not all, something funny is going on, a dog is riding the horse! When you look up, you see a giant cat sitting behind the window. Oh no, it is not a cat! It is a lion! and his manes are on fire.

Probably just from reading a story like this, you already envision something. By making it a bit funny or crazy, your mind will easily remember it.

It may need some practice, and at first you definately want to write down the words for back up. It is also important to walk through the memory palace once in a while to keep the memory fresh.

This sounds very complicated.  The thing is this is way too much words.  I really dont think many people here would remember the 12 world phrase.  Let say they do... now you have to make sure you got it all in the right order.

[pooya87]

There are also tricks to remembering 12 word phrases. Say the first few words of your phrase were carpet, horse, dog, cat, fire

You simply need to think of a place you know very well (child house for example) and for instance imagining going from the front door to your bedroom.

On the way to the front door you see a carpet on your doorstep instead of a door mat, when you look closer to the carpet, you see that there is a horse on it. But that's not all, something funny is going on, a dog is riding the horse! When you look up, you see a giant cat sitting behind the window. Oh no, it is not a cat! It is a lion! and his manes are on fire.

Probably just from reading a story like this, you already envision something. By making it a bit funny or crazy, your mind will easily remember it.

It may need some practice, and at first you definately want to write down the words for back up. It is also important to walk through the memory palace once in a while to keep the memory fresh.

This sounds very complicated.  The thing is this is way too much words.  I really dont think many people here would remember the 12 world phrase.  Let say they do... now you have to make sure you got it all in the right order.

that is the way to memorize things like this but i don't think it is a good idea in case of a seed because first of all it is possible that you will forget about the actual words and be confused that was it "carpet" or door"mat".

besides it is hard to make the connection for the seed of 12-25 words for example like this:
constant forest adore false green weave stop guy fur freeze giggle clock

[NorrisK]

There are also tricks to remembering 12 word phrases. Say the first few words of your phrase were carpet, horse, dog, cat, fire

You simply need to think of a place you know very well (child house for example) and for instance imagining going from the front door to your bedroom.

On the way to the front door you see a carpet on your doorstep instead of a door mat, when you look closer to the carpet, you see that there is a horse on it. But that's not all, something funny is going on, a dog is riding the horse! When you look up, you see a giant cat sitting behind the window. Oh no, it is not a cat! It is a lion! and his manes are on fire.

Probably just from reading a story like this, you already envision something. By making it a bit funny or crazy, your mind will easily remember it.

It may need some practice, and at first you definately want to write down the words for back up. It is also important to walk through the memory palace once in a while to keep the memory fresh.

This sounds very complicated.  The thing is this is way too much words.  I really dont think many people here would remember the 12 world phrase.  Let say they do... now you have to make sure you got it all in the right order.

that is the way to memorize things like this but i don't think it is a good idea in case of a seed because first of all it is possible that you will forget about the actual words and be confused that was it "carpet" or door"mat".


besides it is hard to make the connection for the seed of 12-25 words for example like this:
constant forest adore false green weave stop guy fur freeze giggle clock

It was ofcourse completely over simplified purely for the sake of expalanation. The thing is, those strange words in the seed may actually make it easy as well. The more extreme you make the words interact in your memory palace, the easier it is to remember.

Also, I wouldn't recommend this as the sole storage place of the seed, especially as a novice, but it is possible and extremely easy for 12 words. When I first tried it I had to remember 20 random words in the training and I still know half of them 10 years later without any revisiting the sequence in my mind. Imagine how easy 12 words is after some practice and revisiting it every few weeks.

[dsattler]

A safe at your bank would be a good choice but this is pretty expensive.

You could buy a small safe and put it somewhere in your house or buy one of those "hidden" safes (looks like a book or a spray can), those are quite inexpensive and gives you good protection!

[NorrisK]

A safe at your bank would be a good choice but this is pretty expensive.

You could buy a small safe and put it somewhere in your house or buy one of those "hidden" safes (looks like a book or a spray can), those are quite inexpensive and gives you good protection!

Storing it in a safe may protect (or actually make it a target, if they think there are other valuables in there and accidentally take your seed) you from thiefs, it does not protect your from the elements.

Sever water damage or a fire will very likely destroy the contents of the safe. Make sure that it is not your only backup.

[viking02]

Okay but don't you guys say the best method of this is typing your 12 word phrase in keepass?


Thus use keepass as your password program.  So you have a copy of it on your computer.  Then make a copy of it on an external hard drive so that makes it 2 copies you have.  Then make a copy of it online using dropbox or google drive or icloud etc.  Thus that way you have 3 copies of keepass in case anything happens to it.  Any which of these programs do you recommend the most?  Dropbox, google drive or icloud for storing keepass?



So the only thing is you need to make sure you remember your password for your keepass and either your dropbox/google drive or icloud. 



That way, when you open keepass whether its on your computer or online storage site, and since you only have the password to it, thus your 12 word phrase is in it... that is best idea?



That way you dont have to remember the 12 word phrase or put it anywhere eetc?

[NorrisK]

The thing with keepass is that you still need to remember a password or you still not to write down a password.

If you make it easy to remember, it is likely easy to crack as well. If someone targets you they could then get into your keepass safe.

If you write it down on paper, you have the same issue as writing down the seed on paper.

Using a password manager to create different passwords for all websites is good to do though. Nobody will ever be able to crack your accounts because one website stored your password unsafely.

[pooya87]

Okay but don't you guys say the best method of this is typing your 12 word phrase in keepass?
~~
copy of it on your computer.  Then make a copy of it on an external hard drive so that makes it 2 copies you have.  Then make a copy of it online using dropbox or google drive or icloud etc.
~~
That way you dont have to remember the 12 word phrase or put it anywhere eetc?

you are too hard on yourself about saving your seed in my opinion.
you can in fact simply print it on a piece of paper and laminate that paper or not and be safe for many years just holding that.
so although what you are doing is good but remember that your password that you use on your keypass should also be strong in other words if you use something like "123" as your keypass password it would be as if you never use it.

and then you will again have the same problem with memorizing your strong keypass password!

[airdata]

 i just save my seed on keep.google.com like a TITLE so i create 12 title if someone ask its save i think yeah because only me know my gmail account 

[dsattler]

i just save my seed on keep.google.com like a TITLE so i create 12 title if someone ask its save i think yeah because only me know my gmail account 

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.