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Author Topic: An Argument for Bitcoin as Private Property  (Read 1645 times)
RealEstCoin
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October 18, 2016, 07:36:38 AM
 #1

The Virtual is Real: An Argument for Characterizing Bitcoins as Private Property
Via http://www.thelegrandgroup.com/blogs/post/The-Virtual-Is-Real/

"The usage of a bitcoin is necessarily a matter of exclusion because bitcoins are inherently highly rivalrous. By inherently highly rivalrous I mean that if one person uses a bitcoin, it is impossible for someone else to use that bitcoin at the same time. In contrast, other information based resources, like ideas, are capable of being used by a multitude of persons at the same time. Basically, a bitcoin is more like a spoon than a song. If I am eating with a spoon it is impossible for you to eat with that spoon at the same time. In contrast, we may both sing the song."

Do you think bitcoin should be considered private property? Also, what is going to happen to your bitcoin if you pass away? Cryptocurrency is offering exciting, new options within many different industries. The discussion within the bitcoin community will need to address these points at some time, and I am interested in hearing your opinion.

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October 18, 2016, 07:54:19 AM
 #2

I think, that Bitcoin is more than a Private Property.

Any known Private Property can be taken by a third party (thiefs, government, law enforcement etc). There is no way to avoid it.

Bitcoin has ways to secure your "property", that no third party can take it. I would call Bitcoin "Super Private Property".

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October 18, 2016, 08:16:29 AM
 #3

The balance in your wallet is of course private property, I'm not sure why you would even need to mention it. Bitcoin is just money and your money is your property isn't it? or am I missing something here? Do you want to define it because it's purely virtual unlike fiat? You have to keep in mind that right now, Bitcoin is valuable only through it's associated dollar-value, by itself its worth nothing. Businesses wouldn't accept Bitcoin if they couldn't convert it to fiat.
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October 18, 2016, 08:17:34 AM
 #4

The Virtual is Real: An Argument for Characterizing Bitcoins as Private Property
Via http://www.thelegrandgroup.com/blogs/post/The-Virtual-Is-Real/

"The usage of a bitcoin is necessarily a matter of exclusion because bitcoins are inherently highly rivalrous. By inherently highly rivalrous I mean that if one person uses a bitcoin, it is impossible for someone else to use that bitcoin at the same time. In contrast, other information based resources, like ideas, are capable of being used by a multitude of persons at the same time. Basically, a bitcoin is more like a spoon than a song. If I am eating with a spoon it is impossible for you to eat with that spoon at the same time. In contrast, we may both sing the song."

Do you think bitcoin should be considered private property? Also, what is going to happen to your bitcoin if you pass away? Cryptocurrency is offering exciting, new options within many different industries. The discussion within the bitcoin community will need to address these points at some time, and I am interested in hearing your opinion.

Bitcoin is actually a private property as you asked if you die what will happen to your coins, basically they will be there forever if no one can get into it by hacking or any other method, there was someone one day mentioning this thing that a friend of his died in a road accident and he had some bitcoins stored in a wallet which he only knows the address about, so if there is no method of getting into a wallet just by knowing its address then they would probably be locked down forever.



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October 18, 2016, 10:20:29 AM
 #5

Bitcoin network or bitcoin blockchain can't be considered private as it is not control by any central body. However bitcoin can be said private as bitcoin can be owned by any private company, any person, any institution or even government and in case like when the owner of bitcoin get demised those bitcoin can't be used without private key and if owner have given access to their private key to other people they can easily use it own it just like in banks you can put your parents/relatives name and give them access if you don't remain in this world.

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October 18, 2016, 10:38:14 AM
 #6

The Virtual is Real: An Argument for Characterizing Bitcoins as Private Property
Via http://www.thelegrandgroup.com/blogs/post/The-Virtual-Is-Real/

"The usage of a bitcoin is necessarily a matter of exclusion because bitcoins are inherently highly rivalrous. By inherently highly rivalrous I mean that if one person uses a bitcoin, it is impossible for someone else to use that bitcoin at the same time. In contrast, other information based resources, like ideas, are capable of being used by a multitude of persons at the same time. Basically, a bitcoin is more like a spoon than a song. If I am eating with a spoon it is impossible for you to eat with that spoon at the same time. In contrast, we may both sing the song."

Do you think bitcoin should be considered private property? Also, what is going to happen to your bitcoin if you pass away? Cryptocurrency is offering exciting, new options within many different industries. The discussion within the bitcoin community will need to address these points at some time, and I am interested in hearing your opinion.

bitcoin: THE NETWORK PROTOCOL
is a song. where individuals agree to the words(rules) to sing(accept) by coming to a consensus, compromising and eventually agreeing if they all as a majority want to improve the song.

btc: the unit of measure (the funds)
is a spoon. though it can belong to anyone who has access to the spoon(the private key of that ledger entry). but as long as only one person is holding the spoon(private key). then the spoon belongs to the one person holding the key.

no single person holds the key to the network protocol. because there is no key to the network protocol.

a better analogy is not a song vs spoon. but:
a microphone vs a song
a spoon vs a family meal

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October 18, 2016, 10:55:09 AM
 #7

Yes obviously bitcoin is a private property because it was for the first time developed for trading it like barter system within website but later on due to its simplicity and advantages people started using bitcoin as money. And no government have right over this property
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October 18, 2016, 12:10:44 PM
 #8

a spoon vs a family meal

Please spare me with your bizarre socialist analogies. Bitcoin is nothing that is meant to be eaten up just because all socialists are hungry and holding empty spoons. Cheesy

Regardless of what kind of categorization governments will choose to squeeze the highest amount of BTC out of their citizen, to me Bitcoin is clearly private property. It doesn't matter if the property is stored at multiple locations in a distributed way. As long as I'm holding the access key, I'm the owner.

The problem of passing on one's property in case of unexpected death is not specific to Bitcoin. If you don't leave a hint on how to find / recover hidden property it will likely be lost forever. In the case of Bitcoin, you must somehow ensure that your loved ones get the private key(s). That's it.

ya.ya.yo!
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October 18, 2016, 12:21:30 PM
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a spoon vs a family meal

Please spare me with your bizarre socialist analogies. Bitcoin is nothing that is meant to be eaten up just because all socialists are hungry and holding empty spoons. Cheesy

Regardless of what kind of categorization governments will choose to squeeze the highest amount of BTC out of their citizen, to me Bitcoin is clearly private property. It doesn't matter if the property is stored at multiple locations in a distributed way. As long as I'm holding the access key, I'm the owner.

The problem of passing on one's property in case of unexpected death is not specific to Bitcoin. If you don't leave a hint on how to find / recover hidden property it will likely be lost forever. In the case of Bitcoin, you must somehow ensure that your loved ones get the private key(s). That's it.

ya.ya.yo!

lol
bitcoin network is the meal. and the coin is the individual that has his own spoon.
whats in your spoon you have. but that doesnt mean you get to own the whole family meal

yes there might be debates about father adam back saying he owns the family meal because 10 years ago he was a chicken farmer and the family meal is a roast chicken, and the family can only take their spoons under his terms.

yes there might be debates about mother gavin who boiled the veg, saying the family meal belongs to no one. but anyone with a spoon can own their spoonful of food.
(adam back supporters insinuate anyone not liking adam back must secretly want to have adam backs mindset(failed bait and switch))

but gavin and adam , or any other dev should not say they own the meal(network)
instead the family(anyone) can individually have what they want and whatever is on the individuals spoon belongs to the person holding the spoon.


if the family meal (the ledger) belongs to one person then bitcoin becomes no better than the corrupt fiat system.

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October 18, 2016, 12:58:03 PM
 #10

Need to use your spoon for lunch Franky, I'll return it afterwards of course. You just carry on singing while I eat your, er, I mean my lunch Cheesy

Vires in numeris
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October 18, 2016, 01:06:25 PM
 #11

Need to use your spoon for lunch Franky, I'll return it afterwards of course. You just carry on singing while I eat your, er, I mean my lunch Cheesy

if you want my private key(spoon) you can come take it from me. and if you get my private key(spoon) then you can have whats held on the spoon
but you cannot claim you own the whole meal on the table, even if your daddy was a chicken farmer. the meal is for everyone to enjoy. not just you and your daddy

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October 18, 2016, 01:16:17 PM
 #12

For it is a private property. We buy bitcoin and own it privately. We also consider it as currency. For me, as long as you own it, it is consider as private property.

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October 18, 2016, 01:21:13 PM
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Need to use your spoon for lunch Franky, I'll return it afterwards of course. You just carry on singing while I eat your, er, I mean my lunch Cheesy

if you want my private key(spoon) you can come take it from me. and if you get my private key then you can have whats held on the spoon

It's private property then. Like Bitcoins are.

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October 18, 2016, 01:21:58 PM
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Need to use your spoon for lunch Franky, I'll return it afterwards of course. You just carry on singing while I eat your, er, I mean my lunch Cheesy

if you want my private key(spoon) you can come take it from me. and if you get my private key then you can have whats held on the spoon

It's private property then. Like Bitcoins are.

the network is not private property, its public property. anyone can use:
Quote
Bitcoin[network/meal] uses peer-to-peer technology to operate with no central authority: managing transactions and issuing money are carried out collectively by the network.

separate debate from that..
the funds(btc aka bitcoins) are private property, not public. only the holders of the keys can use.

i think your trying (and failing) to stretch the misinterpretation of the currency units vs network (simply because they use the same name) for you to pretend its the same thing. and thus attempt to want a dictatorship of the network, because funds are private.

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October 18, 2016, 01:23:16 PM
 #15

Fiat currency is also private property so I don't see the reason why Bitcoin wouldn't be private property also. But this is not defined only by fact that you own it or that you har bought it but it should be determined by the law according tow strict defined criteria.

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October 18, 2016, 01:41:54 PM
 #16

What do you think of the idea that bitcoin yes is "Property" but not nessacerily "private".  What i mean by this is that if there was ever to be a private key collision, improbable i know, but possible none the same.  Who owns the bitcoin?   Roll Eyes
CuriousGeorge
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October 18, 2016, 01:42:50 PM
 #17

The Virtual is Real: An Argument for Characterizing Bitcoins as Private Property
Via http://www.thelegrandgroup.com/blogs/post/The-Virtual-Is-Real/

"The usage of a bitcoin is necessarily a matter of exclusion because bitcoins are inherently highly rivalrous. By inherently highly rivalrous I mean that if one person uses a bitcoin, it is impossible for someone else to use that bitcoin at the same time. In contrast, other information based resources, like ideas, are capable of being used by a multitude of persons at the same time. Basically, a bitcoin is more like a spoon than a song. If I am eating with a spoon it is impossible for you to eat with that spoon at the same time. In contrast, we may both sing the song."

Do you think bitcoin should be considered private property? Also, what is going to happen to your bitcoin if you pass away? Cryptocurrency is offering exciting, new options within many different industries. The discussion within the bitcoin community will need to address these points at some time, and I am interested in hearing your opinion.
Just depending from who the people are seeing from. I think bitcoin can be considered for a private property and the public property too. but in this cases are depending with the perspection from the each person about that. just like if we are considered the bitcoin from their value i think we will see the private property in itself, caused by the value of bitcoin are using by the each person. but not about from the tech preview bitcoin can be considered as the public property like their anonymity are useful for a lot of the people or public.

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PRE-SALE.
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franky1
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October 18, 2016, 01:52:49 PM
 #18

What do you think of the idea that bitcoin yes is "Property" but not nessacerily "private".  What i mean by this is that if there was ever to be a private key collision, improbable i know, but possible none the same.  Who owns the bitcoin?   Roll Eyes

this is probably better to use the word "authority"
bitcoin network has no central authority. no corporation or individual has authority over the bitcoin network
private keys authorise the holder to spend the funds. who ever holds the private key has the authority of the funds.
EG multisig agrees to multiple people having authority when all signing together, but not signing individually.
EG writing the private key into your 'last will' to only be opened on your death, by your named successor gives them the authority
EG negatively, a hacker gets the private key then gains authority to spend the funds

if you keep your key private so no one else can have it. only you have authority of the funds

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October 18, 2016, 01:59:09 PM
 #19

It's private property then. Like Bitcoins are.

the network is not private property, its public property. anyone can use:

If it was public property, then where's my right-of way to march into the mining farms and borrow a little hashing power? You could use your public access too Franky, change everything around into your socialist Bitcoin Unlimited paradise! Oh no, wait you can't. Nothing to do with the network nodes being private property though, right?


And you really are the strawman of all strawmen aren't you? You're refuting something I didn't even say.


separate debate from that..
the funds(btc aka bitcoins) are private property, not public. only the holders of the keys can use.

i think your trying (and failing) to stretch the misinterpretation of the currency units vs network (simply because they use the same name) for you to pretend its the same thing. and thus attempt to want a dictatorship of the network, because funds are private.

The only person trying to muddy the distinction between the network and the currency units is you. Don't you remember, muddying the picture to confuse and scare people is the only thing you ever do.




All you're proving Franky is that you're not capable of having a reasonable discussion; whenever someone says something you disagree with, you go into full-on witch-burning mode. Doesn't that make you the dictator?

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pinoycash
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October 18, 2016, 02:01:40 PM
 #20

I treat bitcoin as my everyday money, i used it to pay the bills, for airtime load, and much more.. so its more of a private property to me. and for as long as it stays on my wallet its mine Smiley

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