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Author Topic: Bitcoin = Ponzi Scheme? Truthnevertold Youtube video  (Read 758 times)
Teal Deer
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April 03, 2013, 12:25:12 PM
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Hia,

I'm a long time reader, first time poster. I've invested in Bitcoin since 2011 and just yesterday purchased some Litecoins.

I saw this video a few days ago which at first I dismissed along with most Bitcoin criticism videos, particularly with the 50% dislike rate. Most Bitcoin apologists would dislike most videos against it anyway, though.

So while watching it, I did seem to find some of the points somewhat rational and sensible. Of course I don't want them to be right, and they could well be wrong. But could someone who has watched the whole video and has more knowledge shed some light as to why he is, if at all wrong? Feel free to comment if you agree with him also. I wouldn't hold my breath that that would be an awful lot of you though.

Thanks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UKC7iaBKvs
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Scullyking
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April 03, 2013, 12:51:47 PM
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Is this is the video from the guy who then addmitted to being wrong about the BTC ponzi scheme?
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April 03, 2013, 01:17:27 PM
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Hia,

I'm a long time reader, first time poster. I've invested in Bitcoin since 2011 and just yesterday purchased some Litecoins.

I saw this video a few days ago which at first I dismissed along with most Bitcoin criticism videos, particularly with the 50% dislike rate. Most Bitcoin apologists would dislike most videos against it anyway, though.

So while watching it, I did seem to find some of the points somewhat rational and sensible. Of course I don't want them to be right, and they could well be wrong. But could someone who has watched the whole video and has more knowledge shed some light as to why he is, if at all wrong? Feel free to comment if you agree with him also. I wouldn't hold my breath that that would be an awful lot of you though.

Thanks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UKC7iaBKvs

It quickly became clear that he had no understanding of the topic he was talking about.  I realized there wasn't going to be any value in anything he said after he falsely claimed that "the entire bitcoin market flash-crashed from a weekly high of $32 to $0.01 on June 19".


When he said, "and I'm not even so sure that these algorithms would actually do this, and why they couldn't just created this out of thin air and then after the fact make it very difficult to ever get them" I couldn't help but think, "then learn about it before you try to talk about it".

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April 04, 2013, 07:25:45 AM
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I've always been puzzled as to how Bitcoin has an intrinsic value if it isn't backed by a physical commodity though.

If fiat currency that is no longer backed by gold is essentially worth nothing, why is Bitcoin?
I don't think that my argument is correct, I just don't know why it's wrong.

Obviously I don't totally believe it or I wouldn't have money in it.
lbr
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April 04, 2013, 07:28:10 AM
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Even USD is a variant of Ponzi scheme.. relax ; )

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Severian
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April 04, 2013, 07:29:26 AM
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I've always been puzzled as to how Bitcoin has an intrinsic value if it isn't backed by a physical commodity though.

Bitcoin's intrinsic value is the internet itself, intrinsic meaning "belonging to a thing by its very nature". Bitcoin is backed by the existence of the internet.
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April 04, 2013, 07:32:48 AM
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You can't walk to a bank and trade 1btc for X amount of gold, though. It cannot be traded for something else of value at a fixed price.
lbr
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April 04, 2013, 07:34:04 AM
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You can't walk to a bank and trade 1btc for X amount of gold, though. It cannot be traded for something else of value at a fixed price.
You also can't with USD.

BTC: 18ozhbkfHneX8tnPgHJuTizyBmspM5Vgpa  LTC: LgVc7KdedPGZyDXHXEH9G7z6AoTmTvDdWb
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April 04, 2013, 07:35:37 AM
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It cannot be traded for something else of value at a fixed price.

Why is a fixed price so important? The prices of all commodities move up and down in relation to each other and the currencies they're traded in.
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April 04, 2013, 07:50:55 AM
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You can't walk to a bank and trade 1btc for X amount of gold, though. It cannot be traded for something else of value at a fixed price.

Ummm... your example is flawed. Nothing can be traded at a 'fixed' price. As someone else said currencies are always moving and changing. It's called FOREX.

Commodities are always changing as well in Futures and Derivatives.

Just because you can't walk into a bank doesn't mean it doesn't have value. My Chase Bank won't let me walk in and trade Colombian Pesos for US Dollars, but the currency has value, just need to go to someone willing to exchange it.

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April 04, 2013, 08:02:09 AM
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I realised after I posted it that I shouldn't have said "fixed price". I was thinking in my head of being told once that $1 was equal to a fixed amount of gold that it could be traded for.

Thanks for the explanation!
lbr
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April 04, 2013, 08:11:15 AM
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I realised after I posted it that I shouldn't have said "fixed price". I was thinking in my head of being told once that $1 was equal to a fixed amount of gold that it could be traded for.

Thanks for the explanation!

It used to be. And so it was written on the banknote.
However, now USD and all(?) fiat currencies are worth the amount of trust ppl have in them, the same as with BTC.

BTC: 18ozhbkfHneX8tnPgHJuTizyBmspM5Vgpa  LTC: LgVc7KdedPGZyDXHXEH9G7z6AoTmTvDdWb
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DannyHamilton
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April 04, 2013, 10:17:56 AM
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You can't walk to a bank and trade 1btc for X amount of gold, though. It cannot be traded for something else of value at a fixed price.

If it isn't necessary for survival, then any "value" we assign it is arbitrary.

What is gold backed by?  There is no guarantee that I can walk in to a bank and exchange my gold for something of value.

Gold has an arbitrary value because people want to own it and it is rare.

Bitcoin has an arbitrary value because people want to own it and it is rare.

However, now USD and all(?) fiat currencies are worth the amount of trust ppl have in them, the same as with BTC.

Same with gold.  The value gold has is due to the trust people have in it.

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April 04, 2013, 10:28:02 AM
 #14

Ponzi schemes are derived from single individuals and entities, Bitcoin is owned by no one but operated by everyone. A $1.4 Billion market cap is the beginning of a brand new economy that will systematically erase the old one as banks continue to burn down and trust is lost to all but Bitcoin, pretty much the only appreciating asset in the world. They can stop this no more than they stopped BitTorrent. We the pioneers have the most to gain as the economy shifts into this new matrix. No single person gains from the downfall of Bitcoin, so a Ponzi scheme it is not. All of us that watched our wealth get stripped away have everything to gain.

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