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Author Topic: What would a Bitcoin world look like?  (Read 2266 times)
flug
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June 14, 2011, 02:28:55 AM
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Ever since I heard about Bitcoin 6 weeks ago, I've been trying to get my head round the implications of it. My initial instinctive reaction was that it will totally change the world, but my imagination is finding it hard to fully come to grips with all of this. I think it's totally subversive to the existing power structures. Since the dawn of civilization, the elites have held power by controlling the currency. Will they be able to control Bitcoin? Any ideas how the world and its power structures might change if Bitcoin takes hold?
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June 14, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
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Bitcoin may have the ability to turn the world upside down, or it may just fill a niche in the global economy. I think Bitcoin's impact will be exactly proportional to the level of actual financial oppression there is in the world.

Does that thought make any sense?

If the world of big money really is using the system to "enslave" the common person, then Bitcoin could be the tool needed to break society free, making money a democratic system rather than an authoritarian one.

If instead, the money leaders of the world have actually been keeping our best interest at heart, then I envision no revolution, just a truly brilliant form of money, easy to move internationally (among many other benefits).

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flug
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June 14, 2011, 03:06:33 AM
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I think Bitcoin's impact will be exactly proportional to the level of actual financial oppression there is in the world.

Does that thought make any sense?

That makes complete sense. It's difficult to gauge how much oppression there is if we've grown up with it and take it as completely normal. I wonder what it felt like to have the freedom of being a hunter-gatherer pre-civilization, and whether we could get that same freedom back now in an advanced technological civilization if the economic foundation shifted radically enough away from centralized control, and whether Bitcoin could have that kind of impact.
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June 14, 2011, 04:37:13 AM
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Newbies with insight here.

I guess I can't just filter everyone with <100 posts  Smiley

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June 14, 2011, 04:52:33 AM
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Psssh unfair. Not everyone with <100 posts says crazy things. Also, Flug: what they aren't telling you is that there are hundreds of posts like this already. Maybe give one of them a shot?
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June 14, 2011, 04:56:57 AM
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I think Bitcoin's impact will be exactly proportional to the level of actual financial oppression there is in the world.

Does that thought make any sense?

That makes complete sense. It's difficult to gauge how much oppression there is if we've grown up with it and take it as completely normal. I wonder what it felt like to have the freedom of being a hunter-gatherer pre-civilization, and whether we could get that same freedom back now in an advanced technological civilization if the economic foundation shifted radically enough away from centralized control, and whether Bitcoin could have that kind of impact.

Like the freedom of dying from unclean drinking water.

Living in civilization is always a trade off, unfortunately with our inept and corrupt elites (USA) it is less and less worth it each day.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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June 14, 2011, 05:00:13 AM
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Like this.
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June 14, 2011, 05:22:05 AM
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If Bitcoin goes big, I can see a lot less poverty in the world. I dont know exactly how it will develop but there will be a lot less people suffering.

Why am I saying this? If you check history when humans organize around stable sound money there is much more progress and less "elite power". When human societies organize arond inflationary money suddenly discoordination starts to happen which leads to production problems making people poorer, and the gap between the middle class and the poor with the rich increases.
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June 14, 2011, 05:29:16 AM
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Psssh unfair. Not everyone with <100 posts says crazy things. Also, Flug: what they aren't telling you is that there are hundreds of posts like this already. Maybe give one of them a shot?

I guess it wasn't clear. I was not being sarcastic. I agree with flug and applaud and appreciate the posts.

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June 14, 2011, 05:35:28 AM
 #10

Bitcoin enables massive theft evasion from the world's monopolies on force. Of course it will change the world.
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June 14, 2011, 08:28:20 AM
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Bitcoin enables massive theft evasion from the world's monopolies on force. Of course it will change the world.

Absolutely right. Keeps the bastards out of the pie, we get to decide what is worthy - not just their bottom line.


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gigabytecoin
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June 14, 2011, 08:29:42 AM
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Candies, rainbows and streets of fucking gold...

Because gold would be worthless at that point.
flug
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June 14, 2011, 08:59:42 AM
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Also, Flug: what they aren't telling you is that there are hundreds of posts like this already. Maybe give one of them a shot?

I'm just getting the feeling that there are very few people who even come close to grasping the real significance of Bitcoin. I'm thinking that if Bitcoin is to the economy what p2p file sharing was to the music industry, then it's gonna take a lot of imagination to make sense of it.

My own favourite narrative is along the lines of: centralized power structures collapse, replaced by some kind of anarcho-capitalism which allows people to actually take responsibility for their selves and fruits of their own labour, after which everyone will realize that hoarding wealth was just based on fear and the forced scarcity of the old system, followed by the realization that giving away surplus to those who need it is incredibly satisfying, finally ending up almost by accident at some kind of anarcho-communism. Ta-da!

Just need to fill in the details Smiley

Anyhow I'll go searching the rest of this forum.
flug
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June 14, 2011, 09:07:31 AM
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Like the freedom of dying from unclean drinking water.

I'm not suggesting we go back to pre-civilization. (Altho check out Derrick Jensen/Endgame). I'm suggesting we can have civilization and clean drinking water, but without the existing oppressive power structures.
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June 14, 2011, 11:09:36 AM
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I don't think Bitcoin is ever going to replace USD or EUR.  If anything, it's going to end up as an auxiliary currency like silver or gold.  Rather than threatening governments, Bitcoin might actually help governments with their monetary policy once they start holding it as a "foreign reserve".

Don't be naive in thinking that bitcoin can be used to evade taxes. This might work with smaller amounts below 10,000 USD, but as soon as you start spending serious amounts of money (no matter whether 500 Euro notes or BTC) you inevitably leave a trail in meatspace.  

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June 14, 2011, 11:54:52 AM
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I'm thinking that if Bitcoin is to the economy what p2p file sharing was to the music industry, then it's gonna take a lot of imagination to make sense of it.

Well, it isn't. P2P file sharing is really only a way to distribute data. The biggest benefit to the average user is less risk at getting caught copying copyrighted stuff.

Bitcoin is not analogous at all. It is not about multiplying money.

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flug
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June 14, 2011, 12:00:37 PM
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I'm thinking that if Bitcoin is to the economy what p2p file sharing was to the music industry, then it's gonna take a lot of imagination to make sense of it.

Well, it isn't. P2P file sharing is really only a way to distribute data. The biggest benefit to the average user is less risk at getting caught copying copyrighted stuff.

Bitcoin is not analogous at all. It is not about multiplying money.

The point about p2p is that Bitcoin has no central point of failure, so it's resilient. (unlike Napster and e-gold).
andes
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June 14, 2011, 12:08:28 PM
 #18

The point about p2p is that Bitcoin has no central point of failure, so it's resilient. (unlike Napster and e-gold).
Except a that a centralization of mining could become a single point of failure if measures are not taken to prevent it.
flug
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June 14, 2011, 12:11:39 PM
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I don't think Bitcoin is ever going to replace USD or EUR.  If anything, it's going to end up as an auxiliary currency like silver or gold.

So Bitcoin is just an electronic form of gold, and the elites will just usurp all of the bitcoins like they usurped all of the gold, and life will carry on as normal? You just ended my revolution before it began!
flug
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June 14, 2011, 12:16:39 PM
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Except a that a centralization of mining could become a single point of failure if measures are not taken to prevent it.

Yeap. But let's carry on this discussion on the assumption that Bitcoin can't be compromised. In what ways will this subvert the existing power paradigms? Will society itself become more p2p rather than top down? etc etc.
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