Zcash, Postmine (materally premine (semantics much))

[jubalix]

Ok so with my Lawyer hat on I took a quick look at the Zcash FAQ.

Zcash try to  address the "premine" accusation, which is often seen as deleterious in the crypto community,

Zcash argument is effecitvely allocating funds after mining has started and open to anyone to mine, (semantically) Zcash then say it is "not a premine".

However materially it is the same thing.

The aspect of the premine in issue is not when the mining was done, but how a percentage of funds was always locked up, requiring everyone else to come on board and pick up the tab, give it value etc.


So it is disingenuous of Zcash to claim its not a premine while achieving exactly the same thing.

In effect they have extend/changed the temporal horizon of the premine to a postmine for 4 years.

How do you feel about a 4 year premine, well that's what you have here, a 4 year postmine

I am not saying a postmine is intrinsically wrong (or a premine for that matter), but I am saying they should be more transparent in their info to the community, if they wish to generate trust.

[topesis]

This one of the comment I just posted on another thread related to Zcash that the founder's reward is a glorified name to qualify pre-mined coin , these FUD is going to kill this coin  is just a matter of time because the coin has not even be traded in actual market, if Zcash worth $5000 then Bitcoin should be at least $100,0000. This coin has not been put to test yet time will tell

[dinofelis]

Indeed, I call this post-premine.  It is something I think that ZCASH has invented.

The coindesk article about ZCASH says that ZCASH has brought the age of anonymity to block chain (which is a joke: anonymity is considered by several altcoins, and even as proposals on bitcoin, for several years - zerocoin being one of them, as the ZCASH people should know!).

But the true invention of ZCASH has been this post-premine.  Which, as the OP so rightly points out, is nothing else but a genuine premine, but only to be materialized later.  It is for sure a brilliant move to create the illusion of fairness and of scarcity of the coin as we can see with the crazy prices.  If there had been a premine of 2 million ZEC locked up in the investor's paper wallets, nobody would have paid 3000 BTC for a ZEC.

When you look at the post-premine, the initial slow emission rate (mining reward) and the sponsored hype, then it really looks like this coin has been designed for maximum dump profit: a very high initial (scarce) price which sets the belief of high price, and then when the mining rewards start to accumulate in the post-premine, the possibility to dump at very high rewards before the market realizes it and settles for a much, much lower price in agreement with offer.

[digaran]

I don't know why many people think that other people actually buying this coin while the founders could easily produce fake prices and volum by trading with themselves.

You know price starting at high as few thousand dollars and dropping down is opposite of a normal and legit currency, how could someone place such high values before seeing and experiencing the functionality of the coin?

[Spoetnik]

Indeed, I call this post-premine.  It is something I think that ZCASH has invented.

The coindesk article....

So innovation and much Coindesk Shilling and Very scam  

[ratatatat]

20% dev-tax means 20% less security for the network.

[bbc.reporter]

Yes I believe they get their shares of the mined coins thru the zcash private miner which allows them to skim off 20% of the coins for 4 years and 10% for the rest of the years. At first look I thought this was an ingenious way to pay your investors if you compare it to a straight premine. But I realized that it is still the same thing. Why don't the investors get a share of the company and leave the network alone? I also want to ask why did the zcash development team not continue on with adding the protocol on top of bitcoin? Why did they decide to clone bitcoin and start their own blockchain?

[Spoetnik]

I agree it is in fact ingenious.. props to them for the creativity and working implementation.
But.. LOL

It reminds me of MemoryCoin which still impresses me and how it was rolled out.
The start of rigged coins.. that one had a voting system that was never even mentioned in the ANN.
I found out by accident looking in my Wallet log using the wallet miner.
I told the dev i was finding blocks but they all kept getting taken away..
and it told me what was happening in the logs too !
Some of it was confirmed voting shenanigans.
It said in my log.. No votes meant coins go to the dev wallet by default basically.
And since no one even knew there was a voting system in place he got all the damn votes LOL
Over time he had to admit it.. even though when i posted the info not 1 person cared or commented.
I was of course just a "troll" FUD'ing..
And the entire scam was largely forgotten.. especially after he put out Protoshares / PTS

Funny enough FreeTrade announced the death of the coin publicly claiming he lost voter control via the majority so he was abandoning the project etc.
He HAD claimed previously he was collecting the proceeds for charity.
Yet anyone seen proof the funds ACTUALLY went to a charity ?

2x as Funny FreeTrade waited and bought up his dead coins (i bet)
Then he proudly announced MemoryCoin was back on !!!
..then later he abandoned it again with excuses LOL
YUP he ACTUALLY suckered you all twice with the same scam and you all lined up to blow him.

Oh and i busted his ass with Protoshares too..

Cure coin ? Curing Ebola.. i debunked that one too.

Carbon Coin planting Trees ? i debunked that one too.

BlockNET ?

LEOcoin ?

Spots ?

..whatever.. GIT YUR ROI ON !!!1111ONE

[bbc.reporter]

Thinking about it again right now, If I was made to choose I would prefer the projects that went thru an ICO because it allowed the public to take part and invest under their own judgement. Zcash's strategy only allowed a chosen group of people to invest and have access to the private preminer software.

[JeffBrad12]

Zcash's strategy only allowed a chosen group of people to invest and have access to the private preminer software.

This so tastes for me, this so pathetic but I agree with this. can I let this into new tricks of dev?

but in this time i feel about the difficulty for mining zcash is always increase every day. I like to call this more of for  the manipulation.

[everettforth]

I'm working on a fork.  There are several options to fork, and I want to try a few of them.

1) Takeover current chain with removal of 20% Dev tax

2) Start a new chain with a new genesis block

3) Make a bitcoin-pegged sidechain that uses the zcash protocol.

Here are some links to get involved:
https://github.com/heyrhett/zcash-minus-founders-reward

https://www.reddit.com/r/NotZcash/

https://decentralize.today/zcash-miners-stop-paying-20-genius-tax-486d9f40884f

[jubalix]

I'm working on a fork.  There are several options to fork, and I want to try a few of them.

1) Takeover current chain with removal of 20% Dev tax

2) Start a new chain with a new genesis block

3) Make a bitcoin-pegged sidechain that uses the zcash protocol.

Here are some links to get involved:
https://github.com/heyrhett/zcash-minus-founders-reward

https://www.reddit.com/r/NotZcash/

https://decentralize.today/zcash-miners-stop-paying-20-genius-tax-486d9f40884f

just do a straight fork without the 20% dev tax.....then u can import any of thier updates without drama.

call it zzcash

[everettforth]

That's already done.

The problem is miners won't use it because their blocks will be invalid until the majority of the network also forks.

[Katimand]

Ok so with my Lawyer hat on I took a quick look at the Zcash FAQ.

Zcash try to  address the "premine" accusation, which is often seen as deleterious in the crypto community,

Zcash argument is effecitvely allocating funds after mining has started and open to anyone to mine, (semantically) Zcash then say it is "not a premine".

However materially it is the same thing.

The aspect of the premine in issue is not when the mining was done, but how a percentage of funds was always locked up, requiring everyone else to come on board and pick up the tab, give it value etc.


So it is disingenuous of Zcash to claim its not a premine while achieving exactly the same thing.

In effect they have extend/changed the temporal horizon of the premine to a postmine for 4 years.

How do you feel about a 4 year premine, well that's what you have here, a 4 year postmine

I am not saying a postmine is intrinsically wrong (or a premine for that matter), but I am saying they should be more transparent in their info to the community, if they wish to generate trust.

It cost money to develop the coin. If the price of the ZCash is very high, I do not mind them taking 20% share.

[Spoetnik]

NOOB saying your are fine with the dev taking 20% of the currency is scammy and retarded.
There is no "work" they could possibly do that would be worth that much !
That is simply an obscene vulgar cash grab by scammers.

Just imagine having 20% of all FIAT.
For what ? why ?

You Investards blow me away.. you are willing to support any scammy ass bullshit as long as you get a cut.

Hey NOOB how many accounts have you logged into and are you linked to the coin scam ?
Any guesses people ?

Blatant NOOB fraud is blatant.

Want to support this crap? ..then you get what you get.. don't come crying to me later.