The Glam Life Settlement, Exposing Betcoin.ag and Betsoft

[TwitchySeal]

I won't be discussing how I got this, but I think it's important to be made public.  

Jasons personal information has been removed, nothing else has been edited.

Google Doc

Text:

Code:

SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT


Jason	
July 6, 2016
Jason Statement
I hereby confirm that I have effectively cooperated and reached an agreement with Betcoin.ag and Betsoft in relation to a dispute over a jackpot payout.  I now fully accept that, as per the site’s game rules, the Jackpot cannot be won during bonus and/or free spin features and in such cases, standard pay lines apply.


The game in question, The Glam Life, had the following graphics and text on the pay table page one:


 ‘5 yacht icons on Max Bet wins Jackpot’

‘5 yacht icon on active payline wins 1000’



There was a misunderstanding on my part with how this rule applies with free spins; I understand now that free spin cannot be max bet since there is no bet placed.  The game software provider, Betsoft, has now updated the pay table to clarify as such:


“Jackpot cannot be won during any bonus feature”



Betcoin.ag has acknowledged the lack of clarification from their customer support.  Betsoft has acknowledged that the game pay table may have caused misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility on free spins.  Both parties have now made necessary adjustments.


I agree to waive and release any claims I may have against both Betcoin.ag and Betsoft in regards to this matter. This includes any claims that may not be known as of the date of this agreement.


A confidential settlement has been reached to my satisfaction and I will receive this directly from Betcoin.ag. I understand that if I make any future contradiction of this statement via publishing or broadcasting in any internet website, newspaper or magazine, public computer network, sound or television broadcast, cable or satellite programme, or any other medium now known or invented after this agreement, I will be in breach of this agreement and subject to legal claims for the return of the settlement given to me by betcoin.ag.


Within 24 hours of receiving this confidential settlement, I will state the following to Casino Listings in a forum posting at:


 https://www.casinolistings.com/news/2016/06/warning-avoid-all-betsoft-slots-and-casino-games and at http://www.latestcasinobonuses.com/article/warning-betsoft-progressives-problem






“, I am pleased to say that this matter has been resolved to my satisfaction by all parties involved. Responsibility has been taken by Betcoin.ag for lack of clarification from their customer support, Betsoft has acknowledged that the wording on the pay table may have been cause for misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility. Both parties have been very helpful and cooperative in resolving this and made the necessary adjustments. ”


I will also send the same message to Duncan Gearvie at webmaster@thepogg.com confirming resolution of this case. I agree to send this message within 24 hours of receiving the  confidential settlement.
In addition, I agree that I may be called upon at any time in the future to make a statement provided by Betcoin.ag on any forum, as requested, in relation to this case.


I further agree to refrain from making any more negative statements about BetCoin.ag and Betsoft in regards to the matter involving this settlement, or I will be in breach of this agreement.
This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement and understanding of the Parties relating to the subject matter contained herein and it is not subject to any condition not provided for herein.  This Agreement supersedes any and all prior Agreements, arrangements or understandings between the Parties.  No oral understandings, statement, promises, or inducements contrary to the terms of this Agreement exist.  This Agreement may not be altered, amended, or modified in any respect or particular whatsoever except by writing duly executed by all the Parties hereto.
This Agreement and it’s terms shall remain confidential among all Parties.
This matter is now accordingly closed upon receipt of the mutually agreed settlement from Betcoin.ag . Adequate consideration has been agreed to.


Kind Regards,


……………………………
Jason

This contradicts several statements made by Betcoin.ag shortly after the settlement was made.

Specifically this part:

I hereby confirm that I have effectively cooperated and reached an agreement with Betcoin.ag and Betsoft in relation to a dispute over a jackpot payout.

and this part:

I agree that I may be called upon at any time in the future to make a statement provided by Betcoin.ag on any forum, as requested, in relation to this case.


I further agree to refrain from making any more negative statements about BetCoin.ag and Betsoft in regards to the matter involving this settlement, or I will be in breach of this agreement.

I can't quote directly because have since locked their threads and currently post only in self-moderated threads.

July 12th Link

We don't want nor ever asked jasonort to keep his mouth shut.  Betcoin also didn't pay jasonort off.  This was an agreement between jasonort and the software provider

July 12th Link

Lutpin, the agreement is with the player and the software provider.  This was never a dispute with Betcoin and our player.  It was a dispute with our player and the software provider.    As far as we are concerned, he can share any specifics that he wants and we never even asked him to sign an agreement with us.  We never needed an agreement, a settlement or for him to shut up and encouraged him not to shut up and spoke to him nearly everyday about the matter.  This was a dispute with the software provider.  We actually want him to speak more about it and say whatever he wants.

Shortly after the settlement, Betcoins responsed to questions about whether or not Jason was treated fairly by telling players to ask Jason themself.

Example:



All things considered, it's pretty obvious that at least some of Betsofts progressive jackpots are a scam.

Casinolistings has proven that Goodgirl Badgirl progressives were being manipulated at Bodog.  Shortly after, Bovada/Slots.lv dropped all Betsoft games.

Out of all Betsoft games, Glam Life offers the largest progressive jackpots and it's not even close.  Considering their size, the way they first reacted (claiming it didn't count because he didn't bet the max denomination when, in fact, every denomination has it's own independent jackpot) and that fact that there is no record of anyone hitting a Glam Life jackpot (and getting paid) since it was launched in 2009, only a fool could think there's even a possibility that Betsoft should be trusted.



(Note: Data is from Mid October)

If you are a player at any casino that continues to offer Betsoft games, ask them why.  Tell them to stop.  If they don't, stop playing there.

If they say they will look into it, ask them how long that will take and follow up.

It's up to the players to stop this kind of thing from happening.

Look at the promises Betcoin made last July.  Since then they have added a Betsoft promotion video to their landing page and added multiple Betsoft games to their casino, including one with progressive jackpots.

Last July:

we continue to study this in great detail and have asked for an independent auditing of the games.  We are certainly assessing the situation in full and further detail and will do what is right.  

There has been no audit.  No statement from Betsoft.  Nothing.  They think they can get away with it and the players will just forget.

They recently deleted this post from their self moderated thread:

[1714931577]

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[1714931577]

1714931577

[DarkDays]

Is there any proof of any slot jackpot being hit ever on Betcoin? 

The casino is the only thing keeping the site afloat (the poker room is running at a defect) (except for the BBJ they stole) so it would make sense if it were a little gimmicked beyond the house edge (which is unpublished to my knowledge). 

[Quickseller]

Out of curiosity, how much did they end up paying him for his silence?

[DarkDays]

Out of curiosity, how much did they end up paying him for his silence?

I'm also wondering this, but I don't think that information has been made available to anyone yet.

I'm also wondering why Betcoin paid him and not Betsoft.

Unless...

[TwitchySeal]

Out of curiosity, how much did they end up paying him for his silence?

BTC50

Is there any proof of any slot jackpot being hit ever on Betcoin? 

The casino is the only thing keeping the site afloat (the poker room is running at a defect) (except for the BBJ they stole) so it would make sense if it were a little gimmicked beyond the house edge (which is unpublished to my knowledge). 

I found a post from about two years ago of someone hitting a greedy goblins jackpot.  It was worth BTC2 I think, maybe 3.

[DarkDays]

Out of curiosity, how much did they end up paying him for his silence?

BTC50

Is there any proof of any slot jackpot being hit ever on Betcoin? 

The casino is the only thing keeping the site afloat (the poker room is running at a defect) (except for the BBJ they stole) so it would make sense if it were a little gimmicked beyond the house edge (which is unpublished to my knowledge). 

I found a post from about two years ago of someone hitting a greedy goblins jackpot.  It was worth BTC2 I think, maybe 3.

Interesting.  You'd imagine that a site that spams whenever someone wins a grand in a poker tournament would be all over promoting people who win big slot jackpots, right?  So it's fair to assume that since we've never seen that, it's never happened?

I wonder what the odds of that are...

[bitkilo]

Out of curiosity, how much did they end up paying him for his silence?

BTC50

They settled on just BTC50  wasn't the original payout in the 1000's of bitcoins?

I know it's better than nothing and BTC50 is a good amount of money but this guy won a lot more than that from what i remember, i think he was also a big gambler so BTC50 may not be that much to him.

[actmyname]

Out of curiosity, how much did they end up paying him for his silence?

BTC50

They settled on just BTC50  wasn't the original payout in the 1000's of bitcoins?

I know it's better than nothing and BTC50 is a good amount of money but this guy won a lot more than that from what i remember, i think he was also a big gambler so BTC50 may not be that much to him.

Regardless of the amount, would you rather choose to receive 50 BTC (pretty much) guaranteed or would you rather try to get the jackpot against an already-shady casino? We're all human - it's reasonable to choose the settlement.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[TwitchySeal]

How one Betcoin affiliate rationalizes their behavior: (I added the bold most ridiculous parts, imo)

Checkout how dishonest Betcoin has been https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1667860.msg16745828#msg16745828

You should stop promoting them.

I know it's hard bc of all the money.  I hope you're strong enough to do the right thing anyway.

Twitchy, we've been over this many times.  You're making too many assumptions and magnifying issues.  Betcoin has to be either total stupid to have evil intent in the 'lies' that you claim they make.  It doesn't benefit them monetarily in anyway nor does it hurt the players.... So maybe they aren't lies but honest mistakes and/or 'issues' they haven't had time to get around to explaining.

Also show some respect and privacy to a company. Maybe there's more to it that they don't want to disclose due to the grey area that they're operating in.

Regarding the reason why I'm promoting the poker room (I don't make as nearly as much as you assume.  Hence the reason is not what you think.), you've made a lot of assumptions, most which are incorrect.  I can prove you wrong in private if you'd like.  I hope you can calm down.  There are many companies out there that do not fit your extreme narrow view of what a business should be and sometimes you just need accept that fact otherwise you're just going to be driving yourself crazy and losing a lot of sleep.  Perhaps one day when you run your own business you will have that 'aha' moment.

Out of curiosity, how much did they end up paying him for his silence?

BTC50

They settled on just BTC50   wasn't the original payout in the 1000's of bitcoins?

I know it's better than nothing and BTC50 is a good amount of money but this guy won a lot more than that from what i remember, i think he was also a big gambler so BTC50 may not be that much to him.

Regardless of the amount, would you rather choose to receive 50 BTC (pretty much) guaranteed or would you rather try to get the jackpot against an already-shady casino? We're all human - it's reasonable to choose the settlement.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

The Jackpot was worth BTC1,007

I think Jason didn't believe he was ever going to get anywhere near that amount, however.

BTC50 is a significant amount of money but also keep in mind this was after almost a month of fighting with Betcoin/Betsoft which must have been very stressful.  Not too speak for Jason but, it must of been a pretty stressful few weeks.  Some days thinking you have a real shot at 1,000+ bitcoins, or maybe 0.  There aren't many people that could keep that kind of stress from affecting their lives away from the computer so, I imagine that was at least part of the reason to take the payment - so that he could stop thinking about it.

[Quickseller]

Out of curiosity, how much did they end up paying him for his silence?

BTC50

I don't agree with Betcoin.ag paying out less then what is owed, especially if the amount is ~5% of what is owed. However the ~$25,000 that he received (value at the time of receipt) is a significant amount in pretty much every part of the world, and hopefully he can put that money to good use, and make it do something good for himself.

IMO even if you ignore this situation, it is fairly clear that Betcoin.ag is someplace that you should not send your money, and if you do, you will probably get cheated.

[bitkilo]

The Jackpot was worth BTC1,007

I think Jason didn't believe he was ever going to get anywhere near that amount, however.

BTC50 is a significant amount of money but also keep in mind this was after almost a month of fighting with Betcoin/Betsoft which must have been very stressful.  Not too speak for Jason but, it must of been a pretty stressful few weeks.  Some days thinking you have a real shot at 1,000+ bitcoins, or maybe 0.  There aren't many people that could keep that kind of stress from affecting their lives away from the computer so, I imagine that was at least part of the reason to take the payment - so that he could stop thinking about it.

50btc is no small amount and at least he got something but at the end of the day but it still stinks.

Has the player actually been paid out the 50btc yet? we don't want this thread ruining his chances of getting the payout by discussing the matter.

[TwitchySeal]

The Jackpot was worth BTC1,007

I think Jason didn't believe he was ever going to get anywhere near that amount, however.

BTC50 is a significant amount of money but also keep in mind this was after almost a month of fighting with Betcoin/Betsoft which must have been very stressful.  Not too speak for Jason but, it must of been a pretty stressful few weeks.  Some days thinking you have a real shot at 1,000+ bitcoins, or maybe 0.  There aren't many people that could keep that kind of stress from affecting their lives away from the computer so, I imagine that was at least part of the reason to take the payment - so that he could stop thinking about it.

50btc is no small amount and at least he got something but at the end of the day but it still stinks.

Has the player actually been paid out the 50btc yet? we don't want this thread ruining his chances of getting the payout by discussing the matter.

Yes.  I don't know the exact date, but I assume it was on July 6, the same day as the Jasonort Case Resolution:

We wanted to update everyone with the great news after a tremendous amount of hard work by the Betcoin.ag Staff.

Jasonort Case Resolution

From the very second our great player jasonort came to us with his casino related issue, Betcoin.ag took immediate action working with the software provider to understand, explain and then complete a proper resolution of the matter. We were asked and chose to remain silent on the matter to the public because statements would only cause speculation which would not be conducive to what we believed would be a proper outcome.

The Betcoin.ag staff spent hours every day working and speaking with jasonort and the software provider to do what we thought was right for our great players. It took just over two weeks and many hours to complete what all parties believe is a proper and fair resolution. We would have it no other way.

Throughout this entire process jasonort can attest to the fact that the Betcoin.ag staff made ourselves available nearly 24/7 to answer every question and provide proper updates when available as we would have done for all of our great players. jasonort was also clear to never blame Betcoin.ag for this issue as this was clearly a software issue and would have happened on any other online casino.

As a result of the speculation however our reputation has taken a hit in this forum but we know that we did the right thing here and will always continue to do so. Throughout this entire circumstance jasonort continued to play at Betcoin.ag and so did many new and old Betcoin.ag players. We are very thankful for that.

We will always do the right thing at Betcoin.ag for our great players and we look forward to being your favorite place to play for many years to come. Thank you!

We will be holding a fireside chat in the Betcoin player chat with jasonort to discuss at 6:30pm EST.  Thank you all.  

During the fireside chat Jasonort has announced a self funded  Thank You Freeroll that Betcoin Poker will match which will take place on Sunday, July 24, 2016.  Details to follow!  Mark your calendars!

The full article as well as Jason's response and player responses can be found here: https://www.betcoin.ag/jasonort-case-resolution

^^^More lies than truth.

He did receive payment though.

[bitkilo]

OK thanks for clearing that up, I wouldn't feel comfortable responding if I thought it may hamper his chances of receiving the payout.

What's this above though, a self funded free roll, yeah I'm sure he willingly agreed to that one. Do we know how much he has to put up for this?

[TwitchySeal]

OK thanks for clearing that up, I wouldn't feel comfortable responding if I thought it may hamper his chances of receiving the payout.

What's this above though, a self funded free roll, yeah I'm sure he willingly agreed to that one. Do we know how much he has to put up for this?

Here's a copy of the "fireside chat" where they announced the freeroll on July 6:
(reads bottom to top)


July 17 he created this thread after being ignored/yanked around for a couple weeks:
https://www.betcoin.ag/setting-record-straight

The week of the scheduled freeroll (which never happened)


Management finally responded in player chat:
(green = management, blue = mod )



(this was all about a week before OgNasty joined their signature campaign and I very nicely asked him if he was aware of Betcoins behavior)

[bitkilo]

Man these guys are unbelievable, saying things like "I can't imagine why Jason would feel this way" and "he continues to dwell on the past" .
He missed out on about 950btc that i believe he was rightfully entitled to and they wonder why he "dwell's on the past" as they put it 

[Lutpin]

A confidential settlement has been reached to my satisfaction and I will receive this directly from Betcoin.ag.
I understand that if I make any future contradiction of this statement via publishing or broadcasting in any internet website,
newspaper or magazine, public computer network, sound or television broadcast, cable or satellite programme, or any other medium now known or invented after this agreement,
I will be in breach of this agreement and subject to legal claims for the return of the settlement given to me by betcoin.ag.

Now I'm 100% sure Betcoin.AG claimed that this settlement was with BetSoft and not with them.

I won't be discussing how I got this, but I think it's important to be made public.  

Not at all or just not in public? If you want to share, PGP me.

[RHavar]

I left betcoin.ag trust with a link to this thread so they find it. Could you please confirm if the information here is indeed accurate?

[DarkDays]

I left betcoin.ag trust with a link to this thread so they find it. Could you please confirm if the information here is indeed accurate?

If you are asking a company that has a long history of lying to be truthful, you probably aren't going to get the desired results.

It's probably best to ask that if they dispute any of these facts that have been brought to light, that they provide some sort of proof. 

[TwitchySeal]

Recently I found playbetr.com, which is a copy of Betcoin.ag that offers play money.  Same casino, sports, dice, chat, community forum, and even a manager named "playbetr jessy" that pops in chat every once in a while.

The poker software is also igsoft and filled with obvious bots, but it's play money so not a big deal other than proof that bot implementation is possible and probably easy.

The obvious Betsoft graphics is even more evidence that points to Betcoin and Betsfot being the one and the same.

[DarkDays]

Recently I found playbetr.com, which is a copy of Betcoin.ag that offers play money.  Same casino, sports, dice, chat, community forum, and even a manager named "playbetr jessy" that pops in chat every once in a while.

The poker software is also igsoft and filled with obvious bots, but it's play money so not a big deal other than proof that bot implementation is possible and probably easy.

The obvious Betsoft graphics is even more evidence that points to Betcoin and Betsfot being the one and the same.

I looked at the playbetr site and the layout is identical to betcoin, header, font, formatting, chat box, VIP system layout/design, recent activity box, site statistics, active user box, everything.  It's clear they are owned by the same people.

Also, playbetr was at G2E a couple months ago: https://www.playbetr.com/playbetr-attend-g2e-global-gaming-conference-las-vegas

Doesn't look like 'Betsoft' was there, but it looks like they WERE at ICE the next week and/or at 'Macao'?  Their facebook is a little confusing.

Also, both Betcoin and playbetr were registered through the same domain register company (Gandi SAS).  Betsoft.com is not, although it was registered in 2002 and it looked like Gandi didn't start their VPS cloud hosting service until 2008.