A new Chinese mining farm could have a huge impact on Bitcoin

[spartak_t]

Two days ago, when the news came up, I've created a thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1668584.0) in the Mining section, but I think this is important to know as it could affect altcoins as well. For those who are lazy enough to check the thread, this is what the Chinese are currently doing: http://www.cybtc.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=16490









I tried to make some calculations based on S9 miners, because no hash power is announced and I came up with ~1500PH (assuming they somehow improve their miners, or they are using slightly better tech). For those of you who doesn't know what that means, I will only say that world's Bitcoin hash power is about 2000 PH. Bitcoin mining is going to be even more centralized, not to mention that the diff. will go through the roof.

EDIT: Its important to say that I first came up with 150PH, but I've miscalculated a zero (Peter Todd's tweed made me do it again: https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/794206373651288064)

I think its time to turn our heads to some altcoin (my best guesses are LTC and XCP).

[lurker10]

LTC is controlled by China in the same way.
XCP (Counterparty) is controlled by Bitcoin miners and Bitcoin developers.

[spartak_t]

LTC is controlled by China in the same way.

I know, but is it necessary to tell you the difference between LTC and Bitcoin (investors)?

XCP (Counterparty) is controlled by Bitcoin miners and Bitcoin developers.

My opinion is same as to Litecoin. XCP is a better (at least imo) tech than Bitcoin.

[lurker10]

LTC is controlled by China in the same way.

I know, but is it necessary to tell you the difference between LTC and Bitcoin (investors)?

XCP (Counterparty) is controlled by Bitcoin miners and Bitcoin developers.

My opinion is same as to Litecoin. XCP is a better (at least imo) tech than Bitcoin.

Yes, please. Tell the difference between LTC and BTC. As far as I know most of the LTC asic generated hash rate comes from China, much like BTC.

How can XCP be better when it depends on BTC to exist and can be killed by BTC developers?

[NeuroticFish]

I think its time to turn our heads to some altcoin (my best guesses are LTC and XCP).

There are plenty of options around, quite some of them being better than your proposals.
I'd propose coins that are not mined by ASIC. CPU only would be even better.
I feel that this is the only way of decentralization: anyone be able to mine. Even if the coin would barely pay for electricity, the average Joe will mine it for fun, for profit and because he can.
Yeah, I know, there's a risk of botnets, there's the risk that somebody will find a way to make ASIC... but until then there's decentralization and maybe, since the coin will not have so much money behind it, if needed, a fork will change algo in a way anybody can mine.

Theymos also had an interesting idea for a new altcoin.


Again, there are plenty of options. But most bitcoiners will not leave Bitcoin, because it still promises riches.

[lurker10]

Why are botnets bad in a CPU only coin?

[spartak_t]

I think its time to turn our heads to some altcoin (my best guesses are LTC and XCP).

There are plenty of options around, quite some of them being better than your proposals.
I'd propose coins that are not mined by ASIC. CPU only would be even better.
I feel that this is the only way of decentralization: anyone be able to mine. Even if the coin would barely pay for electricity, the average Joe will mine it for fun, for profit and because he can.
Yeah, I know, there's a risk of botnets, there's the risk that somebody will find a way to make ASIC... but until then there's decentralization and maybe, since the coin will not have so much money behind it, if needed, a fork will change algo in a way anybody can mine.

Theymos also had an interesting idea for a new altcoin.


Again, there are plenty of options. But most bitcoiners will not leave Bitcoin, because it still promises riches.

I mostly meant that LTC and XCP are not that "famous" as Bitcoin, but their tech could be called superior. My bet is that if something will explode, that would be LTC or XCP. I am predicting a lot of failures in Ethereum and ZCash, but future will tell...

[NeuroticFish]

I mostly meant that LTC and XCP are not that "famous" as Bitcoin, but their tech could be called superior. My bet is that if something will explode, that would be LTC or XCP. I am predicting a lot of failures in Ethereum and ZCash, but future will tell...

Most coins have superior tech compared to Bitcoin because they came later and there was (and still is) room to experiment.
While the value is low, you can do many things. When a 5% price fall happens on the Bitcoin market, there's quite some money. That makes the devs very (too?) careful with what they change. Altcoins don't have this pressure and can do wonderful things.

When I said that there are better choices than LTC and XCP, I was not clear enough. I share the same view as you on ETC/ETH and ZCash. And there are other coins/tech too in this list (SDC, Steem..)
I was thinking on XMG, XMR, BBR maybe zCoin.. and there are many honest coins/teams that try to do the best .... the list can be very long, just I am rather lazy...

[FruitBucket]

Well, this is where things seem to be going with more and more big mining companies with large upfront investment moving into the market. Somewhat the same with the internet. Look at the small players that rent cloud space - they have a very hard time to compete with the prices of larger companies. The same thing is happening in bitcoin. There are also the advantages of this. A few weeks ago bitcoin was said to be decreasing in hashing power because of the halving. This is a great investment in further supporting the network from attackers.

While centralisation seems to be a problem when this goes live by driving up difficulty. This may then also lead to a general higher costs of mining which may increase the price further and which then may make mining more lucrative. This being a free market more big players could move into mining.

[spartak_t]

I mostly meant that LTC and XCP are not that "famous" as Bitcoin, but their tech could be called superior. My bet is that if something will explode, that would be LTC or XCP. I am predicting a lot of failures in Ethereum and ZCash, but future will tell...

Most coins have superior tech compared to Bitcoin because they came later and there was (and still is) room to experiment.
While the value is low, you can do many things. When a 5% price fall happens on the Bitcoin market, there's quite some money. That makes the devs very (too?) careful with what they change. Altcoins don't have this pressure and can do wonderful things.

When I said that there are better choices than LTC and XCP, I was not clear enough. I share the same view as you on ETC/ETH and ZCash. And there are other coins/tech too in this list (SDC, Steem..)
I was thinking on XMG, XMR, BBR maybe zCoin.. and there are many honest coins/teams that try to do the best .... the list can be very long, just I am rather lazy...

I've never used Monero, but I think its anonymity is not optional? That's imo a big problem. Steem needs A HUGE user base to succeed and some even compared it to Facebook (which is plain stupid). It may bring some profits to the early investors, but I don't see its future (as it is). If companies such as FB consider it as a threat, they will just buy it. Don't know anything about XMG and BBR. Same goes for SDC.

[CraigWrightBTC]

And i think Chinese people will make investing into ethereum classic or other algoritm of coins after bitcoin, because the vga cards is very easy to getting than miners of sha256 and scrypt miners.

[Febo]

Why are botnets bad in a CPU only coin?

They influence price to be cheaper as it should be.  If that is bad or good is for everyone to decide.

Lower price means more people can afford coins.   If you have a huge bag of coins you might want price to be higher but on long term wider adoption will also help the price.

So botnets make price of coin cheaper short term and helps with coin adoption and make it worth more long term.  This is my view on CPU mined coins.

[spartak_t]

Not sure if you heard the news, but China plans to ban its people to move Bitcoin outside the nation.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Theymos also had an interesting idea for a new altcoin.

Can you share that idea, i haven't heard it.  Thx.

[spartak_t]

Theymos also had an interesting idea for a new altcoin.

Can you share that idea, i haven't heard it.  Thx.

There you go: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1654457.0

[Cryptotraider16]

WTF,this will cost milions!

[Febo]

WTF,this will cost milions!

Bitcoin and all PoW crypto is a way to store electricity.  Like a huge battery. Watch it is only few minutes long.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iyOKlzEe-0&feature=youtu.be

[Flyskyhigh]

Stop mining and start minting. Switch to Mintcoin [MINT] where your coins essentially are the miners. And as long as you don't sell your coins, you'll keep minting, and your hash power so to speak will always scale with time no matter what. The mintcoins keep minting. They don't go obsolete like investing in mining gear.

[klondike_bar]

Two days ago, when the news came up, I've created a thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1668584.0) in the Mining section, but I think this is important to know as it could affect altcoins as well. For those who are lazy enough to check the thread, this is what the Chinese are currently doing: http://www.cybtc.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=16490

it will take months to build even part of this structure, probably 2 years for the entire facility. Its not like you can build the first shed and immediately power it up. cables are all underground and its uncommon/unsafe to energize part of a facility like this while still excavating/building other areas.

then there's the fact it will take months to populate it with hardware and get everything online and hashing. A major limitation will be the speed at which bitmain can manufacture the hardware. *and they will prioritize sales since its immediate revenue, rather than sinking all thier money into a longer return from mining*

IMO it will take a minimum of a year to reach 500PH, and probably 2yrs to reach 1500PH (if not longer). by that time the network will probably be in the 4-6 Exohash range anyways


PS: I adore the empty glass cube. no mining facility is complete without a transparent 5-storey box

[klondike_bar]

Stop mining and start minting. Switch to Mintcoin [MINT] where your coins essentially are the miners. And as long as you don't sell your coins, you'll keep minting, and your hash power so to speak will always scale with time no matter what. The mintcoins keep minting. They don't go obsolete like investing in mining gear.

they just go unwanted