The Proposal: Living Free

[Elwar]

http://marinea.org/mag/2016NovemberIssue.pdf

Libertarians need to face reality. They are trying to save people from a world that they are
actually fine with. Sure some people may complain about how their government works on one
or two issues or hope that their candidate of choice will be the one that will fix those minor
problems that they see with things today. But libertarians who actually “get it” see the
possibilities that come from a better future where governments aren’t running every little part
of our lives. Today’s governments are “good enough” for most people. This message is not for
them. They can still live in their system and be perfectly content with tinkering around the
edges and believing that they may have some minor impact upon how things move forward.

To change the minds of the masses is a futile struggle as the effort required to awaken one
person is significant and doesn’t scale to all.

This message is for those of us that understand that taxation is theft, that roads will not
suddenly disappear without government, that wars are not fought to defend our “freedoms”,
and that the idea that “if you aren’t doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about”
when taking away our privacy is not even close to being an excuse. This message goes to
those that understand that government is force, our fiat currency is manipulated to favor those
in power, that centralization of power only leads to the centralization of corruption, that the
current system is broken and that liberty is but a footnote in the thoughts of anyone with any
control.

Most libertarians spend their lives working hard to help bring liberty to those that don’t want
liberty. At least their actions demonstrate that it is not very important to them. The fact that the
“land of the free” is deciding between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump should be proof
enough to anyone that liberty has been phased out and may be something talked about in
fairy tales one day if allowed to do so by our future governments. Our time wasted trying to
help others could have been spent enhancing and improving liberty in our own lives yet we
fought tirelessly, we sacrificed, we put in countless hours hoping that we could make a
difference in our communities. It is time we focus on ourselves and actually work toward our
own freedom now instead of hoping for some future far off reality that those around us likely
don’t even want or are actively working against. It is time to be free.

What we are proposing will not be easy. It will not be immediate and there will be a learning
process, but it is something we can do together and it is something that is actually possible
with accomplishments at every step of the way. But hopefully in the end we can enjoy the
liberty that we seek.

The Marinea project is a project of liberty, and it is a step towards the eventual goal of liberty
for all. What we propose is leaving behind those that are perfectly content with big
government. Shrugging off the harsh reality that every bit of land on Earth is controlled by a
government that is slowly moving toward more and more centralized corruption. If they control
all of the land, we will move to the 70% of the world that is not controlled by any government.

Like so many sailors, boaters and water lovers who have done so before, we will move to the
sea and build our new world there.

The end goal for the Marinea project is a large floating community in a wave protected
sanctuary in a temperate climate with open trade and cooperation with all, thriving as
progress allows us to move forward instead of getting dragged down by those that would
rather admit to failure before even trying.

While our end goal is very broad, the ultimate results lie in those that are actually involved in
making it happen. Everyone will play their part and have their efforts bear fruit toward liberty
as opposed to being wasted on people that would hope that we would all just go into the
ocean and never return.

Our initial proposal is to make something happen now. We are not just about talk; we want to
get on the sea now and have verifiable immediate results.

Our research has given us an initial
structure to begin our R&D and get our feet wet by having a small community of 30 to 50
people living on a floating structure that has living quarters, offices, restaurants, retail, utilities
and the basics of starting off on our journey toward learning what life will be like for this new
venture. We will also be taking baby steps when it comes to the most obvious question
everyone has – “what about the huge waves?!?” Our initial location will likely be in a well
protected area of the Caribbean in around 10 feet of water surrounded by uninhabited islands
with an average yearly wave height of 2 feet. This does mean that we will still be under the
limited laws of a country with no income taxes and very few laws. But it will be a step in
the right direction as we learn and grow as a community to reach our end goal.

From there, we will learn our lessons, and this paper will be re-written by those with the
knowledge to determine the next steps, whether it is a giant leap to our community in
international waters or a larger platform or many small platforms, it is not our place to decide
that right here and now. The most important thing to do is to point in the right direction and
take that first step.

The initial structure will require funds of $15 million to have it ready for initial Mariners to live
on. While we are currently working on large investors, donors or promoters, we would rather it
be a community effort with funds coming from many activists and supporters who want to get
involved and be part of moving liberty forward right now.

As such, we have set up a way for
individuals to become a member for a minimum of $100 for the purchase of one SeaNote.
Every SeaNote gives you access to our updates, monthly magazine, discounts for any future
visit to Marinea on things such as hotel rooms, restaurants, products, etc. as well as being
able to trade that SeaNote in for citizenship once we have established our future community.

We will only be making 150,000 SeaNotes available and will be setting up an exchange to
trade your SeaNotes on the open market on a decentralized crypto-token market.

Whatever the outcome of our funding drive, we are dedicated and hope you join us in moving
forward toward actually making something happen and taking steps toward liberty that we can
all follow. Our energies need be no longer wasted on those that do not care nor deserve any
more of our productivity. It is time to focus on bringing liberty to each other so that we may all
thrive and move forward together and leave those that do not share our vision to their own
paths in life.

You can join us in this journey to freedom at http://marinea.org/join/

[franky1]

sorry but the investment is a 35 room boat..
its not a country, its not a city its not even a town or village.. its just a bed&breakfast on water.

seriously these sea-steading campaigns are just trying to grab lots of money and not actually achieve any libertarian ideals.

$15m(150k sea-notes at $100 a pop) investment, but no-one is allowed to move there permanently..
you cannot declare citizenship of a boat unless you can prove you live there for atleast 6 months of a year or were born there.
thats the minimum requirements of having your own civilisation/citizenship.. and sorry to burst the bubble but not possible to even declare to be a independent 'country' with what the scheme is proposing.

its too obvious that its not a libertarian free-world, instead its just a VC money grab and then offer 20% discount on one nights sleep in the bed&breakfast.

im guessing the guys behind the scheme were probably previously in the doomsday survival pack business and ran out of subscribers, so are now trying to sell another scheme that has no real-world altering solution

[Elwar]

sorry but the investment is a 35 room boat..
its not a country, its not a city its not even a town or village.. its just a bed&breakfast on water.

seriously these sea-steading campaigns are just trying to grab lots of money and not actually achieve any libertarian ideals.

$15m(150k sea-notes at $100 a pop) investment, but no-one is allowed to move there permanently..
you cannot declare citizenship of a boat unless you can prove you live there for atleast 6 months of a year or were born there.
thats the minimum requirements of having your own civilisation/citizenship.. and sorry to burst the bubble but not possible to even declare to be a independent 'country' with what the scheme is proposing.

its too obvious that its not a libertarian free-world, instead its just a VC money grab and then offer 20% discount on one nights sleep in the bed&breakfast.

im guessing the guys behind the scheme were probably previously in the doomsday survival pack business and ran out of subscribers, so are now trying to sell another scheme that has no real-world altering solution

The floating platform is the initial step. Seasteading plans have been out for almost 10 years but this is an attempt to actually get our feet in the water so to speak. Most seasteads proposed so far have been $250 million structures with $500,000 rooms. This project is an attempt to actually start doing something instead of just talking.

Is the initial structure the final goal? No. You won't be able to claim citizenship or live in international waters with the initial structure. But the initial structure is where those things will be determined. Not sitting at home talking about it.

As one of the co-owners, I assure you that we have tried every avenue for coming up with the best funding method for an international business that will ultimately have no country as the business location. I did not want to go the route of creating a shitcoin ICO to fund it. So ultimately colored coins are our final solution. Going for small investments of $100 instead of $500,000 seems more in the spirit of seasteading.

Ultimately it will happen.

[franky1]

i have looked into this seasteading over and over for a couple years.

all phases you speak of actually do involve needing a host nation. meaning you are not in international waters.
even your scheme has said that
its been said many many times that the choice to anchor down near a host nation is to allow for easy resupply and also not have to deal with the expense of deep anchoring to make platforms and not be hit by the wild tides.

so sorry to burst the propaganda of forming your own country scheme when that was already questioned and ripped apart months ago.

lastly the vessel your scheme is desiring for phase one is actually $25mill valuation. not a $10mill valuation and then $5m for maintenance/repairs and upgrades.

so this $15m magic number the scheme has conjured up, just wont cut it.

im surprised after the community ripped the scheme apart months ago, that those involved are trying to re-invent it again.
seems to be script taken out of the Scientology funding play book. entry fee super low to free your mind and spirit. but then get those invested to pay in more and more and more just to stay part of it, offering ittle to nothing but promising everything if the person just pays a little more

it has been ripped apart before and has proven to not even have understanding of setting up an independent nation.
all that is ever said is that they are not at that phase yet to make a comment.

in short "gimme money first and dont ask questions".

well i have this to say. since it has been many months since that rhetoric was used. im guessing that has been plenty of time to research how you would set up an independent nation (hint: im not talking about a boat or platform structure, im talking about law and politics)

so before money grabbing. explain the process (law and politics) of becoming a independent nation.. lets see if this scheme has learned anything since being ripped apart last time.
oh and here is a hint, dont use comments such as:
"only investors get privy to that info" or "just give us the funding so we can later investigate how".

also. im not sure what you are a co-owner of. can you explain what you specifically co-own as part of this scheme.

[BeetcoinScummer]

I consider myself anti-social but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of on living on a ship. Maybe that is the problem. Instead of getting to pick a small set of close friends with whom I'd spend my time I'd be stuck with having to live with 35 families whom I did not pick.

[eternalgloom]

so before money grabbing. explain the process (law and politics) of becoming a independent nation.. lets see if this scheme has learned anything since being ripped apart last time.
oh and here is a hint, dont use comments such as:
"only investors get privy to that info" or "just give us the funding so we can later investigate how".

also. im not sure what you are a co-owner of. can you explain what you specifically co-own as part of this scheme.

This would also be the part that I'm interested in, I'm sure it would be theoretically possible to gather the funds, but it's just not that easy to start your own country and get it recognized by the UN or other nations.

All of these so called self-proclaimed micronations are unrecognized, the one that seems most like your project would be Seasland, I guess.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand

[franky1]

i have seen many of these schemes. the funny thing is several of them are based on the same premiss of initially buying up a barge and use the barge as a HQ to then discuss what to do.
even funnier is these several schemes all seem to laughably want to buy up the same barge.

"fishermans paradise"

so even before seeing the holes of 'after initial investment we discuss legal/politics' it falls flat with the idea of buying up the fishermans paradise vessel. which in it of itself is no difference then having a mobile/porta cabin in a field to use as a conference room.

i see no legal, political, rational, logistical reason to spend over $25m on a vessel. just to then and only then use as a small conference space of at most 40 people.

these seasteading concepts always fail at trying to sell the utopian dream before/without understanding the initial logistics, politics, laws.

ill give you a hint on why it will fail in this latest re-incarnation in the Caribbean,, using just 1 word that will explain why it wont be allowed to happen both politically, economically and ecologically:
sewerage

[Kprawn]

How is Bitcoin going to fit into all of this? You going to buy food / weapons / tools with bitcoins or are you going to have a big community doing

hydroponics and selling produce in informal markets, using Bitcoin as the currency? The way things are going now, people will have to move

to little water islands to get away from all  the hatred and corruption in this world. 

[Yakamoto]

Not a bad idea, necessarily, but there's still a lot I'd have to read about in order to get a decent concept of how exactly all of the plugs and wires connect to each other.

It's entirely possible to see something like this succeeding, however I would like to see a bit more of the proposal details before I commit to an opinion.

[Milkduds]

The problem being that people that are into these concepts are usually in a realm of extreme personality types,meaning they are hard to get along with due to fixed ways of seeing the world.
By grouping a bunch of people that have a lean towards not liking other people,you are due to face conflict in many areas.
Do not take this as a knock,as I consider myself to be one of those people that would be hard to get a long with as I have a few similar view points but on others I can go in totally opposite directions.
So lumping even a bunch of people on a island that have similar views would eventually go sour or stale for most of us,as we need to be challenged more than one would think.
Humans fracture into groups and eliminating a large segment means you have even smaller ways to seperate from the "others" and this presents a real problem for the mind that needs/wants to group things.

[U2]

What exactly is going to cost 15million!? It's a small "Island" for lack of a better term, that can hold 35 people/ families? That's really expensive. And you're going to be camping it out for who knows how long until you get the basics (food, water, shelter, electricity, Internet to spend your bitcoins lol)

[Elwar]

i have looked into this seasteading over and over for a couple years.

all phases you speak of actually do involve needing a host nation. meaning you are not in international waters.
even your scheme has said that
its been said many many times that the choice to anchor down near a host nation is to allow for easy resupply and also not have to deal with the expense of deep anchoring to make platforms and not be hit by the wild tides.

so sorry to burst the propaganda of forming your own country scheme when that was already questioned and ripped apart months ago.

lastly the vessel your scheme is desiring for phase one is actually $25mill valuation. not a $10mill valuation and then $5m for maintenance/repairs and upgrades.

so this $15m magic number the scheme has conjured up, just wont cut it.

im surprised after the community ripped the scheme apart months ago, that those involved are trying to re-invent it again.
seems to be script taken out of the Scientology funding play book. entry fee super low to free your mind and spirit. but then get those invested to pay in more and more and more just to stay part of it, offering ittle to nothing but promising everything if the person just pays a little more

it has been ripped apart before and has proven to not even have understanding of setting up an independent nation.
all that is ever said is that they are not at that phase yet to make a comment.

in short "gimme money first and dont ask questions".

well i have this to say. since it has been many months since that rhetoric was used. im guessing that has been plenty of time to research how you would set up an independent nation (hint: im not talking about a boat or platform structure, im talking about law and politics)

so before money grabbing. explain the process (law and politics) of becoming a independent nation.. lets see if this scheme has learned anything since being ripped apart last time.
oh and here is a hint, dont use comments such as:
"only investors get privy to that info" or "just give us the funding so we can later investigate how".

also. im not sure what you are a co-owner of. can you explain what you specifically co-own as part of this scheme.

To say that there are many "schemes" trying to do this same thing is not true. Marinea has been in the works for almost 2 years in various stages of readiness.

I own shares as a part of the registered Marinea corporation registered in Belize (why Belize? Because we expect pushback from the US at some point).

We understand the difficulty of setting up a nation. That would not come until well into phase 3 when we have a large community living in international waters on a wave protected huge setup. Yes, the first 2 phases rely upon a host nation. It is best to walk before you run. We have not made any claims otherwise. I do not see where you got the idea of that not being the case.

As for the "community ripping the scheme apart", there have and will always be naysayers. Bitcointalk is just a blip of where we have gone seeking like minded people to join us.

We sent a few people down to Florida to inspect the barge and got a decent appraisal of it. We negotiated with the owner down from $25 million to the $10 million or less depending upon full or partial payment. The extra $5 million is to turn it from a fisherman type of setup to a place that is more in line with sustainability and living.

The Marinea corporation would then use funds from the tourism and commerce to invest into phases 2 and 3.

[Elwar]

How is Bitcoin going to fit into all of this? You going to buy food / weapons / tools with bitcoins or are you going to have a big community doing

hydroponics and selling produce in informal markets, using Bitcoin as the currency? The way things are going now, people will have to move

to little water islands to get away from all  the hatred and corruption in this world. 

Bitcoin will be the currency of Marinea. All owners are on board with this.

[franky1]

lastly the vessel your scheme is desiring for phase one is actually $25mill valuation. not a $10mill valuation and then $5m for maintenance/repairs and upgrades.
so this $15m magic number the scheme has conjured up, just wont cut it.

To say that there are many "schemes" trying to do this same thing is not true. Marinea has been in the works for almost 2 years in various stages of readiness.

I own shares as a part of the registered Marinea corporation registered in Belize (why Belize? Because we expect pushback from the US at some point).

We understand the difficulty of setting up a nation. That would not come until well into phase 3 when we have a large community living in international waters on a wave protected huge setup. Yes, the first 2 phases rely upon a host nation. It is best to walk before you run. We have not made any claims otherwise. I do not see where you got the idea of that not being the case.

As for the "community ripping the scheme apart", there have and will always be naysayers. Bitcointalk is just a blip of where we have gone seeking like minded people to join us.

We sent a few people down to Florida to inspect the barge and got a decent appraisal of it. We negotiated with the owner down from $25 million to the $10 million or less depending upon full or partial payment. The extra $5 million is to turn it from a fisherman type of setup to a place that is more in line with sustainability and living.

The Marinea corporation would then use funds from the tourism and commerce to invest into phases 2 and 3.

lol so funny.
oh by the way i know your making crap up. because your using my numbers.
i made them numbers up based on a few assertions.. bu funny how you immediately grabbed them numbers to pretend you "negotiated" them numbers..

the fishermans paradise is STILL listed at $25m
MY numbers was by taking YOUR $15 and then working out that it requires $5m to maintain and upgrade. meaning you somehow would need to buy it for $10m(which was my point based on arbitrary numbers)

yep you got caught in a lie.. (another bubble bursts)

but it was funny that you pretend that my arbitrary numbers, is the deal you are actually getting.
im laughing.
here is some info..

the reason the Caribbean islands are uninhabited is due to nature reserves and laws that protect that area.
meaning you are not going to get a permit to build in that area.(sorry for the bubble bursts)
secondly you have not thought about basic infrastructure like electric, or even more concerning sewerage.

yes thats right sewerage alone will kill any plans you have for that area. even if you can bribe officials.. (bubble burst again)

but anyway lets get back to the barge.. that barge is not designed to just stay in the middle of the ocean for decades. it needs to be docked and repaired every year/couple years taking a few months.

as the fishermans paradise this was easy, they done scheduled repairs during 'off season' meaning its only in the water and useful 9-11 months of the year. no problem for the fishing community.

but for a 'independent nation' your reliance on a neighbouring country and being tied to that nations laws is a waste of $15m to do what..
oh thats right have a meeting room for 9-11months of the year just to talk about how to grab more funds.

the funny thing is that while your concentrating on fund raising. you have shown no clue about real costs. no understanding about how those funds will be spent to actually achieve something.
again permits, sewerage, electric.. you have shown no calculations. and only "give us money coz utopian dream"

i used to respect your other bitcoin businesses. but this fundraising campaign your trying .. epic fail on many fronts.

there are other ways (which you have not even hinted at knowing) that would actually create an independent nation, for far less then you are wasting on the barge "just for research".

oh and if you pretend to be the only scheme advertising the barge as phase one.. then um.. after 4 years of rebranding your project to reinvent and rejuvenate the project. im still stunned you are actually trying to flip flop around the $15m waste of money for "research"
i found out more then you have in less time .. at no cost.

i am even more shocked that in the 4 years of seeing different brand names try pushing the barge as a phase one "research vessel" that the guys behind it have not even found out why no one is buying into their schemes after 4 years of trying and why it always falls flat.

the short answer is that it seems you have not done any research and are just pushing out utopian dreams that are backed by nothing. surprisingly you feel this lack of knowledge still values yourselves at deserving $15m. when actual costs are more just to 'own' a research boat, let alone paying wages for the researchers..

i think you should go back to the drawing board and learn the basics or go back and concentrate on your other bitcoin businesses.
because a viable independent nation can be achieved without all the money grabbing your requesting just to research how.

i would give you hints.. but i know (as evident of my arbitrary $10boat $5m repair) you will twist it to try making it look like it was the schemes initial plan all along. purely to falsely attempt to make the project look more legit purely to grab $15m that will still get wasted and not achieve anything

[MONKEYJUNK]

Why people don't go to some country in Africa? There's a lot of cheap lands/houses where you can live, produce your own food and collect your own watter.

In my opnion is more cheap than make and building in the middle of nowhere.

About the politic part, in the end will be the same chaos.

[Elwar]

Do not interpret my not explaining every minute detail as the team having not discussed, argued gone overboard in every direction then come to a conclusion during our meetings.

My role has been as the CTO. With my contribution in setting up our Bitcoin related funding (all of our funds have been in a multi-sig wallet since the beginning due to the international nature of the project).

The barge has not been listed at $25 million for some time. Our lump sum offer is under $10 million. As time goes on I am sure the price would come down even more, especially with cash in hand. An owner financed number was given closer to $10 million with a lower downpayment. However it is not really my place to be giving out negotiated numbers. I have personally seen the barge however from behind a fence as I was just passing through when I sold my Florida house.

The project is not 100% locked into that barge as it could be sold or whichever might happen. It currently fits into our phase 1 solution though. Our previous phase 1 solution was to build a large concrete floating structure but the time and unknowns for that project were concluded to be far too high of a risk.

Our business plan is much more detailed than anything I have ever posted here. Our marketing guy has been using that for approaching large investors.

I deeply want this to happen and have invested my own bitcoins toward the project to get the ball rolling.

No matter what happens, I will be living on a seastead in the next 2 years. This project is currently the furthest along toward having something in the water the soonest.

[clickerz]

I consider myself anti-social but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of on living on a ship. Maybe that is the problem. Instead of getting to pick a small set of close friends with whom I'd spend my time I'd be stuck with having to live with 35 families whom I did not pick.

Same here, I want only a vacation like staying their for several months just to wind up and peacefully stay. But for a year long, I don't think I will stay on sea but i would rather chose a homestead area. Though it is me and I respect other opinion.