PPCoin is the only ALTcoin

[chriswen]

Yeah, teracoin is the real hype coin.

[smoothie]

What you PEE PEE fan boys forget:

1. PPC has not proven to have fixed the previously found vulnerabilities exposed by jutarul and have not proven the 'new' POS algorithm to be well tested for exploits.

2. Shady development.

3. Sunny's ineptitude to discuss publicly his design of the NEW POS algorithm.

Dont take something as truth just because you heard it was "energy-efficient" etc.

What is the point of energy efficiency if their is an exploit that still needs to be fixed within the code?

I prefer not to touch this coin until Sunny comes out and addresses my three points above with 100% transparency.

 

Oh and as a TRADER, I know what not to touch/invest in when the writing is on the wall.

Yes we are aware there are some problems, one could find a bunch of complaints relating to Bitcoin as well (such as who the heck is the creator?!) but the important thing should be potential. I'd definitely like to hear Sunny address some of these direct complaints because it seems the community is stuck on some minor points and can't move on to see the bigger picture.

Major point I am stuck on is public discussion of his POS algorithm design. That is huge. Potential is only able to go as far as the system's security to exploits allows it to.

[smoothie]

Who is this guy ? Some kind of joker ?

Quoted for posterity.

What you PEE PEE fan boys forget:

1. PPC has not proven to have fixed the previously found vulnerabilities exposed by jutarul and have not proven the 'new' POS algorithm to be well tested for exploits.

2. Shady development.

3. Sunny's ineptitude to discuss publicly his design of the NEW POS algorithm.

Dont take something as truth just because you heard it was "energy-efficient" etc.

What is the point of energy efficiency if their is an exploit that still needs to be fixed within the code?

I prefer not to touch this coin until Sunny comes out and addresses my three points above with 100% transparency.

 

Oh and as a TRADER, I know what not to touch/invest in when the writing is on the wall.

Yes I am joking. Please sell all your possessions and buy PEE PEE COIN.

If you watch my track record on calling things out you will see that more times than not I am right on what I use and when I buy and sell.

But dont listen to the big fruit drink. Make your own decisions lol

[Vuxil]

But dont listen to the big fruit drink. Make your own decisions lol

Smoothie, for some reason almost every post of yours I read is trolling against someone or something. Angry man? This thread made me lol though

Instead of whining on the forums and demanding developers waste their time responding to your trivial postings, how about you take the initiative to read the code SK has uploaded to github like other people are? Here, I'll even give you some help and get you started: https://github.com/ppcoin/ppcoin . If you are waiting for someone else to tell you why you should invest in their currency instead of you go figuring it out on your own, then you are doing it wrong no matter how you want to spin it.

Want to know how that vulnerability was found? It sure wasn't a result of sitting here bitching on the forum. Go read the code

[tacotime]

I don't think it's the only alt coin, obviously LTC is still a major force and likely here to stick.

PPC is interesting, I've been very antagonistic in the past but about half of the arguments I had against it have turned out to be baseless.

I think there are still problems with scaling that are unaddressed, and I still don't know if his theories are economically sound or reasonable.

I'm going to publish another PoS whitepaper this weekend here, feel free to to tear it apart because that's what makes a strong chain.

[gmaxwell]

>  I had against it have turned out to be baseless.

Uh.  What about the fact that its still centrally controlled by developer announced checkpoints, and that none one the layered complexity seems to address the fundamental issue with PoS that an optimal-rational PoS miner will concurrently mine all the chains he is able, because doing so maximizes his expected income... because nothing is at stake when mining a fork that ultimately fails?

(If you're sensing some frustration from me, it's because I think that "cryptocurrencies" which are just inefficiently implemented centralized systems distract people from working on real, viable, decentralized solutions)

[mr_random]

>  I had against it have turned out to be baseless.

Uh.  What about the fact that its still centrally controlled by developer announced checkpoints, and that none one the layered complexity seems to address the fundamental issue with PoS that an optimal-rational PoS miner will concurrently mine all the chains he is able, because doing so maximizes his expected income... because nothing is at stake when mining a fork that ultimately fails?

(If you're sensing some frustration from me, it's because I think that "cryptocurrencies" which are just inefficiently implemented centralized systems distract people from working on real, viable, decentralized solutions)

Bitcoin has checkpoints, albeit much less. I think checkpoints are the only way to launch an alt currency Like PPcoin which has a radical new approach, it's for security and Sunny has said they will be phased out gradually (I read somewhere by summer but dont quote me on that).

[gmaxwell]

Bitcoin has checkpoints, albeit much less.

Bitcoin's checkpoints _never_ arbitrate the selection of the best chain. They protect against some silly DOS attacks that will be fixed when we get around to changing how the initial block download works.  In the mean time, I had some of my own blocks orphaned by the block at a time checkpoint placement in PPcoin (long before POS was active), this was what actually triggered me to stop mining ppcoin. 

I think checkpoints are the only way to launch an alt currency Like PPcoin which has a radical new approach, it's for security

Yes, it's centrally controlled "for your protection" ... ignore the man behind the curtain.    I can buy "launch"  but PPcoin has been around for a while now ("PPCoin is the only ALTcoin") and practically all mining on it is PoS mining, so the initial risk of it being massively overpowered should be gone now if it would ever be gone. I'm not arguing that it isn't needed: I'm arguing that with it, PPcoin is just a very inefficiently implemented centralized system, and that the need for it basically disproves that PPCoin currently achieves its goals.

[Vuxil]

Yes, it's centrally controlled "for your protection" ... ignore the man behind the curtain.   I can buy "launch"  but PPcoin has been around for a while now ("PPCoin is the only ALTcoin") and practically all mining on it is PoS mining, so the initial risk of it being massively overpowered should be gone now if it would ever be gone. I'm not arguing that it isn't needed: I'm arguing that with it, PPcoin is just a very inefficiently implemented centralized system, and that the need for it basically disproves that PPCoin currently achieves its goals.

Don't forget though that SK is just one guy and can only do so much with the code in a given time. PPCoin is still a baby to me, it's breaking off pretty majorly from BTC in some ways and needs time to mature. If stuff like centralization is never addressed, yea it would be a problem, but I'm giving PPC the benefit of the doubt for now

[robamichael]

Here's a fun fact that might rain on your parade:

Bitcoin is inflationary until 2140.

After 2140 it becomes static if we ignore destroyed coins.



It seems with the frenzy of BTC hype, we have a new class of adopters. A new class of users who must breakaway from Keynesian dogma, and study the free market principles of which Bitcoin was based upon.

I urge those who see an inflationary model as the answer to read the works of Ludwig Von Mises, Murray Rothbard, and Thomas Woods.

Afterwards we can revisit a debate about whether money should be inflationary or deflationary. (Hint: Bitcoin is neither)

[samson]

Well PPCoin is trading on BTC-e right now, check it out.

[spacegoat]

so there'll be upwards of 2billion ppcoins

that sounds like its gonna do real well

the bigger the number the better.  like zimbabwe dollars

[pyra-proxy]

so there'll be upwards of 2billion ppcoins

that sounds like its gonna do real well

the bigger the number the better.  like zimbabwe dollars

Just like there will be more than 2 billion bitcoins as the retort to not having enough coins to fuel a global economy is often... shift the decimal places....  number of coins don't matter, its all supply/demand and in that it is coins entering the market that were not there before vs. New uses/users of the coin that were not there before....  there are enough people and a large enough global economy to support a very healthy price for a coin that has 2 billion units, actually even more could be supported as said currency system gains more and more market share.

[smoothie]

But dont listen to the big fruit drink. Make your own decisions lol

Smoothie, for some reason almost every post of yours I read is trolling against someone or something. Angry man? This thread made me lol though

Instead of whining on the forums and demanding developers waste their time responding to your trivial postings, how about you take the initiative to read the code SK has uploaded to github like other people are? Here, I'll even give you some help and get you started: https://github.com/ppcoin/ppcoin . If you are waiting for someone else to tell you why you should invest in their currency instead of you go figuring it out on your own, then you are doing it wrong no matter how you want to spin it.

Want to know how that vulnerability was found? It sure wasn't a result of sitting here bitching on the forum. Go read the code

LOL so how many PPC did you buy to make you that emotional to post this ^?

Being open to discussing design and development is a huge part of a transparent system. I looked at the code it isn't very well documented. Nor do I care to spend my time disecting it when I can easily speak to the main dev and have him disclose the design.

I mean what's the problem right? Even Gavin Andresen disagrees with SK's operation of how is developing PEE PEE. lol....it never gets old....PEE PEE coin. "Sir would u like to pay with your PEE PEE?" 

[smoothie]

Yes, it's centrally controlled "for your protection" ... ignore the man behind the curtain.   I can buy "launch"  but PPcoin has been around for a while now ("PPCoin is the only ALTcoin") and practically all mining on it is PoS mining, so the initial risk of it being massively overpowered should be gone now if it would ever be gone. I'm not arguing that it isn't needed: I'm arguing that with it, PPcoin is just a very inefficiently implemented centralized system, and that the need for it basically disproves that PPCoin currently achieves its goals.

Don't forget though that SK is just one guy and can only do so much with the code in a given time. PPCoin is still a baby to me, it's breaking off pretty majorly from BTC in some ways and needs time to mature. If stuff like centralization is never addressed, yea it would be a problem, but I'm giving PPC the benefit of the doubt for now

One more thing. You've been on this forum for what, 7 days? Get a grip and do more reading on what actually happened and all the details surrounding PEE PEE lol.

7 days and already thinking you know everything. Take a step back little one and read more and do less talking. 

[smoothie]

>  I had against it have turned out to be baseless.

Uh.  What about the fact that its still centrally controlled by developer announced checkpoints, and that none one the layered complexity seems to address the fundamental issue with PoS that an optimal-rational PoS miner will concurrently mine all the chains he is able, because doing so maximizes his expected income... because nothing is at stake when mining a fork that ultimately fails?

(If you're sensing some frustration from me, it's because I think that "cryptocurrencies" which are just inefficiently implemented centralized systems distract people from working on real, viable, decentralized solutions)

This +1

[smoothie]

Yes, it's centrally controlled "for your protection" ... ignore the man behind the curtain.   I can buy "launch"  but PPcoin has been around for a while now ("PPCoin is the only ALTcoin") and practically all mining on it is PoS mining, so the initial risk of it being massively overpowered should be gone now if it would ever be gone. I'm not arguing that it isn't needed: I'm arguing that with it, PPcoin is just a very inefficiently implemented centralized system, and that the need for it basically disproves that PPCoin currently achieves its goals.

Don't forget though that SK is just one guy and can only do so much with the code in a given time. PPCoin is still a baby to me, it's breaking off pretty majorly from BTC in some ways and needs time to mature. If stuff like centralization is never addressed, yea it would be a problem, but I'm giving PPC the benefit of the doubt for now

LOL breaking off from BTC? It's proof of work algorithm is SHA256. Take an ASIC farm and point it at PPC network....and PPC just got fucked.

[smoothie]

so there'll be upwards of 2billion ppcoins

that sounds like its gonna do real well

the bigger the number the better.  like zimbabwe dollars

  more ZEROs is a good thing!

[tacotime]

LOL breaking off from BTC? It's proof of work algorithm is SHA256. Take an ASIC farm and point it at PPC network....and PPC just got fucked.

This is actually another potential danger with PPC's difficulty algorithm -- someone with a very large hash rate can buy hundreds of thousands of PPC and then hit the network hash rate very hard for a few days.  Because difficultly increases AND reward decreases, the supply will be restricted severely for everyone than would be for just bitcoin.

Code:

ppcoin: subsidy is cut in half every 16x multiply of difficulty

Still, to achieve a 16x increase in difficulty is difficulty for most miners... except for a large one like ASICMiner.  If ASICMINER, with 7 TH/s, were to buy a ton of PPC under the table from someone and then suddenly hop onto the PPC network, they could very easily completely destroy the supply of PPC for normal miners and drive up the price so long as people didn't quickly catch on to what was happening.  Then they could dump their massive stock of PPC, hop off the network, and let the whole chain enter an inflationary spiral.

The same could be said for BTC or LTC, but the problem is exacerbated by the manipulation of both subsidy and difficulty at the same time by miners.

[johnyj]

Just read the PPcoin paper, seems quite complex. Little energy consumption and inflative, sounds more like a fiat currency

There are huge problems with cheap and inflative money, that's the reason bitcoin is so different, it is designed to be an expensive and deflative currency. One of the most foundamental support for bitcoin's value is its energy cost, current value is an estimation of the total energy cost for daily output

If you don't use any energy to create the money, then the money itself worth nothing, just like fiat