I would like to start my own bitcoin trading/exchange site

[bitcoinspot.nl]

Hi there Y'all, I would like to start my own bitcoin trading/exchange site.

Does anyone one here have an idea where to start ?
maybe give me a hint or two ?

Thanks a lot!

[1714930250]

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[1714930250]

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[1714930250]

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[1714930250]

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[done]

I don't have any suggestion but I do wish you well in your goal

[somethinghidden]

Hi there Y'all, I would like to start my own bitcoin trading/exchange site.

Does anyone one here have an idea where to start ?
maybe give me a hint or two ?

Thanks a lot!

Pick up a book on PHP and MySQL or hire a coder (like me). Then read the laws that financial institutions (money transfer) are required to follow so you don't get busted for money laundering. Then contact other money transfer agencies and work out a deal.

[Stardust]

Check the laws of you country too. If it is illegal maybe you should start a hidden service on Tor, that should not be covered by any country.  Think of Tor hiddne services as international waters...

[bitcoinspot.nl]

I see now that the code fot bitcoin-central is now opensource

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=2585.msg35110#msg35110

I have no idea how to set it up or anything, but thats the next step

Contacting the authorities is also a very good idea

[Rob P.]

In the US it is illegal to build your own currency exchange.  They have to be licensed. 

However, you can build one using this:
https://gitorious.org/intersango/

[Timo Y]

Please go ahead! We need more exchanges, especially outside the US and Europe. The advantage of joining an emerging technology at an early stage is that you don't need a huge investment to make it work.  There aren't a lot of competitors and even the main ones are very amateurish so far.

maybe give me a hint or two ?

Do not accept payments by paypal, credit card, or any other revocable payment method. This pretty much guarantees that you will get robbed by a scammer.

[davout]

Hi there Y'all, I would like to start my own bitcoin trading/exchange site.

Does anyone one here have an idea where to start ?
maybe give me a hint or two ?

Thanks a lot!

Hey, got your PM.

The hardest part about setting an exchange up is not the technical part. It's the legal part.
I suggest you sort that out first, how will you operate, which jurisdiction, where will your bank accounts be, etc. etc.
When that's cleared out of the way, hit me up and I'll help you set up the bitcoin central code base for pretty much free.
Don't start by spending time on the technical side of things until the legal side is clear.

If you're serious about it, get a lawyer

In the US it is illegal to build your own currency exchange.  They have to be licensed. 

Bitcoins aren't a currency, one could deal with them using the less-than-1kUSD/customer/day MSB license exemption

[Rob P.]

Bitcoins aren't a currency, one could deal with them using the less-than-1kUSD/customer/day MSB license exemption

True, but US Dollars are.  Again, you gave good advice, get a lawyer.  Just because it's not "technically" a currency doesn't mean the US government won't use those laws to shut it down.

[dr.bitcoin]

If you are willing to invest the time, effort and money needed to provide a good service, please DO NOT incorporate it in the US or EU. Belize, Panama and Costa Rica are 3 places where you can still do this legally and without laughable daily/monthly limits etc. BTW, Liberty Reserve is incorporated in Costa Rica, I would presume they know why it's better than the other two.

[davout]

Belize, Panama and Costa Rica are 3 places where you can still do this legally and without laughable daily/monthly limits etc.

Untrue

[frutza]

davout, would you care to elaborate?

[davout]

davout, would you care to elaborate?

dr.bitcoin should first clarify what exactly is only possible in the three mentioned jurisdictions

I can buy and sell bitcoins in the EU without any problem, I can even sell to someone and simultaneously buy from someone else with a small spread, what would be wrong with that ?

[myrm]

I'm not sure avoiding regulators is such a great plan long term either for your exchange or bitcoins in general. First of all it's only so long it will fly under their radar. From that point on it will either be accepted and regulated or denied legitimacy and will likely fail as a result.

Being a regulated exchange in one of the financial centres of the world comes with prestige and legitimacy you won't get by operating from somewhere with a lax regulatory framework.

One of the most serious you probably need to be aware of is Money Laundering. In most places it's a crime to facilitate it you and any of your staff could go to jail if you're not following the guidelines. You can probably even be charged if your operations are offshore and you're seen to be within jurisdiction and facilitating it. I'm not a lawyer, please do get advice.

Now I don't think the bitcoin protocol makes it easier to launder money, I believe the protocol in fact makes it more difficult to obscure where money is going (assuming you know it's original source and eventual destination). The fact of the matter is for current purposes it has to come out somewhere and that somewhere is currently the exchanges.

Money launderers like the mafia have long based their operations on cash businesses for a reason, money generally comes to them as cash and they want to get it into the financial system so they can buy things like cars and houses. Spending vast sums of money in cash is difficult and going to your bank and depositing it raises too many suspicions. So what they do is operate a cash business as a front, say a bar or restaurant. It's very easy then to just add the dirty cash to you till receipts and now you've got the extra money.

Well it's very easy with small amounts of money, and it's a lot of work. Also when the profits from your evil empire start to rise and you've got henchmen to pay you need to build more and more complex systems to hide the money trail with more front companies and dodgy invoices for goods or work between them that's never actually delivered.

Bitcoin makes this easier for investigators if they know where they suspected it entered the bitcoin economy and where it left. Unlike banks and layered companies they just follow the trail in the block chain.

For an exchange though they need to make sure they're not helping make illegitimate money look legitimate and even if you're not a primary means of getting money into the system like a bank you still have requirements to meet.

One of the main cornerstones of money laundering regulations is know your customer. You should know who they are and you should know they have the income that can support the transactions they're attempting. You also have to watch out fo suspicious account activity, large amounts in then back out quickly at a loss are a red flag. Amounts in then out to a third party is another red flag.

As a financial business YOU are required to report suspicious activity, not just help investigators. Failure to do so means jail. You are also prevented from letting the suspected party know in anyway that they are suspect.

Exchanges as they exist right now probably manage to keep under the limits for the regs to apply but eventually they're all going to have to face up to them and they're all going to have to go legit or die off.

I work in the financial services industry as a programmer, I never see customer data but I am legally required to know how to spot suspect transactions and who I have to tell if I do. I'm also required to undertake yearly refresher training on money laundering regulations - it's not complicated the above pretty much sums it up, but I'm sure it's a different kettle of fish if you're the boss or the point of contact with the regulator.

[avero]

Hi there Y'all, I would like to start my own bitcoin trading/exchange site.

Does anyone one here have an idea where to start ?
maybe give me a hint or two ?

Thanks a lot!

How's your current progress going?

[davout]

I'm not sure avoiding regulators is such a great plan long term either for your exchange or bitcoins in general. First of all it's only so long it will fly under their radar. From that point on it will either be accepted and regulated or denied legitimacy and will likely fail as a result.

[...]

I work in the financial services industry as a programmer, I never see customer data but I am legally required to know how to spot suspect transactions and who I have to tell if I do. I'm also required to undertake yearly refresher training on money laundering regulations - it's not complicated the above pretty much sums it up, but I'm sure it's a different kettle of fish if you're the boss or the point of contact with the regulator.

Yes, I concur, an AML policy should be part of any decent exchange. We're back to the basics : get a lawyer.

[dr.bitcoin]

OK, it looks like some clarification is necessary.

In order to stay legal AS AN EXCHANGE in the US or in the EU (and yes, I did check this with two different lawyers) you need to think of bitcoin as money, and obey all regulations regarding money transmitting services, financial/banking rules etc. that apply in your jurisdiction.

This means you (as an exchange) only have two options:

1. stay low volume per day/month (like MtGox) – this makes you useless for serious businesses and/or bigger traders

2. become a fully-fledged financial institution (like PayPal) and obey all the rules and regulations coming with that – which is really expensive and kills privacy (you have to know your customer etc.)

Nothing really wrong with either one of the above, BUT... low volume withdrawals choke the bitcoin economy in the long run (if I sell $10,000 worth of widgets for bitcoin every day and I can only withdraw $1,000 per day, I certainly have a problem...) and... wasn't bitcoin supposed to be like cash not like PayPal/Bank etc. with respect to privacy?

If you incorporate in a jurisdiction where the legislation is more relaxed, you can get away with less legal trouble, be more useful the bitcoin economy, and ultimately make more money. 

My 2 cents...

[davout]

OK, it looks like some clarification is necessary.

In order to stay legal AS AN EXCHANGE in the US or in the EU (and yes, I did check this with two different lawyers) you need to think of bitcoin as money, and obey all regulations regarding money transmitting services, financial/banking rules etc. that apply in your jurisdiction.

This means you (as an exchange) only have two options:

1. stay low volume per day/month (like MtGox) – this makes you useless for serious businesses and/or bigger traders

2. become a fully-fledged financial institution (like PayPal) and obey all the rules and regulations coming with that – which is really expensive and kills privacy (you have to know your customer etc.)

Nothing really wrong with either one of the above, BUT... low volume withdrawals choke the bitcoin economy in the long run (if I sell $10,000 worth of widgets for bitcoin every day and I can only withdraw $1,000 per day, I certainly have a problem...) and... wasn't bitcoin supposed to be like cash not like PayPal/Bank etc. with respect to privacy?

If you incorporate in a jurisdiction where the legislation is more relaxed, you can get away with less legal trouble, be more useful the bitcoin economy, and ultimately make more money. 

My 2 cents...

Bitcoin is not considered as money in any jursidiction I know of.

[dr.bitcoin]

I hate to argue in this manner (personal opinion vs. personal opinion) so I will end with this: here in the US, you can argue all you want if bitcoin is money or not, but we will not know until a judge rules on this in a court of law. Lawyers' opinion was the judge will probably rule that since it's used as money and fall under the criteria of the law, it IS money. Since that is the case, avoid being a guinea pig by incorporating in another jurisdiction. As for the EU, the lawyer pointed me to a recent EU directive that discusses specifically about things that can be used as money but are not money in the classic sense (sound like bitcoin?) I will post the link here later today, time permitting.

[davout]

I hate to argue in this manner (personal opinion vs. personal opinion)

It's not a personal opinion, to my honest knowledge, bitcoin is nowhere (yet) considered as money. Had it been considered as money in France I would have gone for the currency exchange license, which is approx. 38k€ which is not very much.

so I will end with this: here in the US, you can argue all you want if bitcoin is money or not, but we will not know until a judge rules on this in a court of law. Lawyers' opinion was the judge will probably rule that since it's used as money and fall under the criteria of the law, it IS money.

Yes, I think that's how events are likely to unfold in the US.

Since that is the case, avoid being a guinea pig by incorporating in another jurisdiction.

Yes, don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that one *should* incorporate in the US.

As for the EU, the lawyer pointed me to a recent EU directive that discusses specifically about things that can be used as money but are not money in the classic sense (sound like bitcoin?) I will post the link here later today, time permitting.

That would be really great and very appreciated