Coinbase asked to provide info from 2013-2015 to IRS. So far they are hedging.

[Leonard2016]

so far coinbase has been fighting it to the death because if they don't it is going to be the end of them.

nobody is going to use coinbase if they report to IRS. coinbase is a bad service as it is, if it gets any worse it is going to be bye bye Coinbase forever.

[QuestionAuthority]

so far coinbase has been fighting it to the death because if they don't it is going to be the end of them.

nobody is going to use coinbase if they report to IRS. coinbase is a bad service as it is, if it gets any worse it is going to be bye bye Coinbase forever.

All their business might not evaporate. I have to believe there are at least a few law abiding citizens using Bitcoin.

[kiklo]

IRS Tax compliance will Kill BTC in the US , if it is not changed asap.

No regular person , wants to deal with doing capital gains tax , it is a pain in the ass.
This means people will not use it as a currency in the US, it will be too much of a bother,
limiting it to people that like trading stocks.

Can we say Nail in the Coffin.   


 
 

[bryant.coleman]

In one post after another for years I've told people never to use a US based exchange or Bitcoin business.

They're not all bad. The guy at Cryptsy was nice enough to shred (destroy) the customer database before he fled to China.

There are exchanges out there such as BTC-e, which allows anonymous trading. They are one of the oldest and most reputable exchanges out there and I have been using them for the last 4 years. Not even once they asked for any ID proof. Just my email address is with them, and I am sure that the IRS will not be able to find out my real identity from that information.

[almightyruler]

In one post after another for years I've told people never to use a US based exchange or Bitcoin business.

They're not all bad. The guy at Cryptsy was nice enough to shred (destroy) the customer database before he fled to China.

There are exchanges out there such as BTC-e, which allows anonymous trading. They are one of the oldest and most reputable exchanges out there and I have been using them for the last 4 years. Not even once they asked for any ID proof. Just my email address is with them, and I am sure that the IRS will not be able to find out my real identity from that information.

Heh, I hope you realise I was being incredibly sarcastic. Cryptsy was operating whilst insolvent for more than a year, and ultimately their users have lost millions of dollars worth of funds. As a final "F You", someone with admin access (possibly Paul Vernon?) deliberately destroyed the database so that all user records were lost. That's what my joke referred to.

[pooya87]

~~
Not that I know of ..but the IRS guidelines are specifically written as such

https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance


ie you trade btc at 1 btc in a speculation manner and you double your speculation to say 2 BTC if not held for 1 year and 1 day 40% capital gains or 20% if held more then
1 year like Land.

ie you make btc from mining you pay 25% tax as income...ie the IRS does not like you making money out of thin air..thus want their cut as income
~~

there is something that i don't understand here.
aren't US citizens already paying taxes whatever percent when they are trading other things like say Stocks or trading in Forex market?
so why paying taxes for trading bitcoin is an issue?

Tax Rate
When trading stocks (held less than one year), investors are taxed at the 35% short-term rate. When trading futures or options, investors are taxed at a 23% rate (calculated as 60% long-term times 15% max rate plus 40% short-term rate times 35% max rate).

[Searing]

~~
Not that I know of ..but the IRS guidelines are specifically written as such

https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance


ie you trade btc at 1 btc in a speculation manner and you double your speculation to say 2 BTC if not held for 1 year and 1 day 40% capital gains or 20% if held more then
1 year like Land.

ie you make btc from mining you pay 25% tax as income...ie the IRS does not like you making money out of thin air..thus want their cut as income
~~

there is something that i don't understand here.
aren't US citizens already paying taxes whatever percent when they are trading other things like say Stocks or trading in Forex market?
so why paying taxes for trading bitcoin is an issue?

Tax Rate
When trading stocks (held less than one year), investors are taxed at the 35% short-term rate. When trading futures or options, investors are taxed at a 23% rate (calculated as 60% long-term times 15% max rate plus 40% short-term rate times 35% max rate).

Because BTC is treated like Land or Property ...you can't speculate on land in the USA. IF you buy land and make a bunch on capital gains and you sell it within a year and 1 day
you pay 40% capital gains. If you sell after the 1 year and a day. (Prove you are not just 'speculating' on a pump on land) you pay 20% on your capital gains.

Hard for BTC to be a currency..if you use a BTC bought in 2009 for 12c and sell it to buy a TV for $750 bucks in 2016. You are required under current IRS guidelines
to pay on $749.88 as profit ..ie Captial gains on that amount of 20%.

Yeah, the General Accounting Office got on the IRS for not making regulations that made sense after the CPA association of the USA asked for changes/clarifications.

This started this whole get the IRS to make some new rules etc on how to take care of taxation on crypto currencies...jeez did it backfire imho.

CPA Association Reguest

http://www.coindesk.com/aicpa-irs-bitcoin-tax-guidance/ ie current rules don't make sense too confusing.

Then the General Accounting Office (GAO) got into the act

https://www.atr.org/gao-irs-tax-bitcoins-a7696

Then/now the IRS feeling pressure seems to be doubling down and just sticking with the 2014 IRS Guidelines everyone is confused about and thus imho the coinbase pushback for files

http://www.coindesk.com/irs-seeking-data-coinbases-bitcoin-customers/

See simple from the IRS point of view...obviously, all BTC and Crypto users are hiding money etc ..this is only reason to use crypto ..thus send us all the records from coinbase.

https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance

(It also will have the added value of driving the CPA association that brought this up and the GAO even more nuts....nah nah nah nah goes the IRS ...ie lump it)

So IF crytpo is ONLY used as a 'store of value' this makes some kind of weird sense...treat it like Land...but if it is a currency and a 2009 Bitcoin is treated like land
and differently, than say a 2016 bitcoin you've just bought...gonna be damn hard to spend it and make it an option for consumers.....if all BTC treated as different stand alone units of value.

thus the point by the CPA association and the GAO offices...this just don't make sense and it just don't plain work in reality...and the IRS reply so far is "lump it".

heh.....fun times.....makes me want to build a bunker when the war between bureaucrats and the trump administration starts...oh goodie...more gridlock here an everywhere then imho

2014 IRS Guidelines on Bitcoin and other Crypto Currencies. That is the problem. IRS will not re-do this and according to GAO sat on their hands and IRS is pushing back and
doubling down imho with a fat/lazy asking for all Coinbase user info as a result.

Sheesh

[Shiroslullaby]

Hey man, the IRS has to generate tax revenue from somewhere.
And since they sure as hell aren't going to get it from corporations hiding their profits offshore,
I guess they are going to come after users of Bitcoin now...

Since they can only tax the amount they can PROVE you profited on,
does this mean they can only act on the amount they can prove you bought and then sold through Coinbase?
(Since they wouldn't be able to prove that you sold coins once you moved them out of your Coinbase account.)
How deep is the IRS going on this? Are they tracing addresses that coins were sent to from Coinbase accounts?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

IRS Tax compliance will Kill BTC in the US , if it is not changed asap.

No regular person , wants to deal with doing capital gains tax , it is a pain in the ass.
This means people will not use it as a currency in the US, it will be too much of a bother,
limiting it to people that like trading stocks.

Can we say Nail in the Coffin.   


 
 

Well it figures those dumbasses would classify it as an asset and not a currency.  Which it pretty much is anyway, but they're still dumbasses.  They want part of every cent you will ever earn or spend.  In any case, if they fine me they fine me.  Not a lot of my money went through Coinbase.  And I'm sure Circle and all the other ones are next, too.

Come on, it was just a matter of time and we all know that.

[Searing]

Hey man, the IRS has to generate tax revenue from somewhere.
And since they sure as hell aren't going to get it from corporations hiding their profits offshore,
I guess they are going to come after users of Bitcoin now...

Since they can only tax the amount they can PROVE you profited on,
does this mean they can only act on the amount they can prove you bought and then sold through Coinbase?
(Since they wouldn't be able to prove that you sold coins once you moved them out of your Coinbase account.)
How deep is the IRS going on this? Are they tracing addresses that coins were sent to from Coinbase accounts?

up to the taxpayer to prove anything....so the problem is not with the 25% tax on crypto mining....I mean the IRS does not like $$$ coming out of thin air....(or out of the dirt...like gold mining)

But every BTC is treated like its own piece of land...down to whatever amount like 0.0001....so if you got BTC at 0.1 cent and it is now 750 bucks  you have to track

the INDIVIDUAL BTC back and pay capital gains on it! THAT is why the USA CPA association asked the IRS to clarify and that is what the GAO report said the IRS had not

made any real world plans on how to track this stuff correctly...and of course the IRS just flipped them off and started the coinbase fishing expedition for all the users there with BTC.

So it is kinda dumb...especially with the Marshall's sale and others by the US Gov't which did not follow the 'tainted coins' as they were supposed to and other stuff

truthfully the IRS is understaffed and has bigger fish to fry...thus they kinda are just winging it or trying to....so imho the 'poke' of wtf by the above agencies got this response on coinbase

whatever ...they can make us wear bunny suits I suppose on tax day if they wanted to...not much we can do about it

[Searing]

Heh....gotta love the IRS ....assumption is if you buy BTC on coinbase you are likely trying to do tax fraud it seems.

http://fortune.com/2016/11/20/irs-bitcoin-tax-evasion-case/

coinbase likely to fight this tooth and nail

http://www.reuters.com/article/bitcoin-irs-coinbase-idUSL1N1DL0MW

fun times...so imho the IRS figures if you are using BTC instead of good old fiat $$$ you must be up to something. Send us the database of all so we can 'get em'

[OmegaStarScream]

As an update , It seems like Coinbase refused to give information's to the government  and they are taking this case to court from what I read : https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinbase-will-take-irs-to-court-over-consumer-privacy-attack

[Pursuer]

As an update , It seems like Coinbase refused to give information's to the government  and they are taking this case to court from what I read : https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinbase-will-take-irs-to-court-over-consumer-privacy-attack

this was bound to happen sooner or later. whenever there is some large amounts of money moving around in US the IRS starts sniffing around to find a way of earning money from people who are doing all those money transfers.

and I don't think Coinbase is going to be that successful in court besides, I am sure they are working with other agencies that shall not be named like how they caught the KAT owner

[pedrog]

No worries, President The Donald will abolish such taxes and you all will be fine.

Are they asking for all records or US citizens and residents records?

[Searing]

No worries, President The Donald will abolish such taxes and you all will be fine.

Are they asking for all records or US citizens and residents records?

Everybody from what I gather. All USA Citizens on Coinbase. (BTC being evil and all)

[QuestionAuthority]

[Searing]

https://www.google.com/amp/www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2016/11/21/irs-wants-court-authority-to-identify-bitcoin-users-transactions-at-coinbase/?client=safari

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mercury.postlight.com/amp%3Furl%3Dhttps://fee.org/articles/the-irs-just-declared-war-on-bitcoin-privacy/?client=safari

Imho coinbase will likely lose in that this is no more then the IRS would expect to get from a bank
for info. I assume the IRS will also play the 'terrorist' and BTC is evil card, in order to solidify
the idea that coinbase is a bank and must comply.

[QuestionAuthority]

Avoid U.S. businesses at all costs. If you're from the U.S., then realize what your government is doing to you, realize you are not free, and realize change.

[OmegaStarScream]

As expected from some users in this thread , Coinbase officially lost the case. This covers all Coinbase users from 2013 to 2015.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-judge-approved-irs-coinbase-users/
https://www.cointelegraph.com/news/us-federal-court-approves-irs-collection-of-coinbase-user-database

If there is something that someone should learn from this , then It's that we shouldn't trust centralized exchange that asks for real information's for long term.

[QuestionAuthority]

As expected from some users in this thread , Coinbase officially lost the case. This covers all Coinbase users from 2013 to 2015.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-judge-approved-irs-coinbase-users/
https://www.cointelegraph.com/news/us-federal-court-approves-irs-collection-of-coinbase-user-database

If there is something that someone should learn from this , then It's that we shouldn't trust centralized exchange that asks for real information's for long term.

Funny that a country formed by a revolution about overtaxation is now overtaxing its citizens on all sides of every transaction.

Justin Timberlake should make a song about it.