Early Retirement Extreme

[Elwar]

I have a buddy who one day just said "screw it". Instead of paying his rent that month, he took it and put it toward a cheap $800 van. He took out the back seats and made a bed out of them with storage underneath. He added a couple of solar panels on the roof and powers all of his interior stuff with that (laptop, small TV, phone, etc.).

He just drives the van to state parks and goes deep into the woods and just camps out for a few weeks at a time. His wife gets disability from the military for around $1500 a month and they get food stamps so he is doing fine, his only bill is insurance on the van and his cell phone bill.

He will come by the neighborhood and he has enough friends that they usually let him just park his van at their place or he finds an empty lot nearby.

He said that when he travels he will either stay at Walmart parking lots or just parked on the street, blending in with all of the other vehicles.

He heads north in the summer and goes south in the winter. He will do odd jobs here and there to keep himself busy and make a bit of pocket change but he has all the free time he could ever want. He is always working on some new invention with electricity or some little device. He has the time to do it.

I have considered it. But for me, I was considering buying something like this:
http://www.sportsmobile.com/2_eb-110s.html

I would do it if I could just have a business online.

[PachucoBro]

I have a buddy who one day just said "screw it". Instead of paying his rent that month, he took it and put it toward a cheap $800 van. He took out the back seats and made a bed out of them with storage underneath. He added a couple of solar panels on the roof and powers all of his interior stuff with that (laptop, small TV, phone, etc.).

... and they get food stamps so he is doing fine, his only bill is insurance on the van and his cell phone bill.

Well this is what I was asking about... how cheap would you be willing to live. Me? I definitely am not living out of a van sleeping in Wal-Mart parking lots.

BUT

The last line in the quote above is what I sure don't like... Why should I pay for him to live his nomadic lifestyle?

If you choose to live like that then by all means go for it, but don't take government (taxpayer's) funds to help you live it.

[Elwar]

I have a buddy who one day just said "screw it". Instead of paying his rent that month, he took it and put it toward a cheap $800 van. He took out the back seats and made a bed out of them with storage underneath. He added a couple of solar panels on the roof and powers all of his interior stuff with that (laptop, small TV, phone, etc.).

... and they get food stamps so he is doing fine, his only bill is insurance on the van and his cell phone bill.

Well this is what I was asking about... how cheap would you be willing to live. Me? I definitely am not living out of a van sleeping in Wal-Mart parking lots.

BUT

The last line in the quote above is what I sure don't like... Why should I pay for him to live his nomadic lifestyle?

If you choose to live like that then by all means go for it, but don't take government (taxpayer's) funds to help you live it.

The dude is a hardcore socialist/communist. Even has the hammer and sickle tattooed on his arm. He is all about redistribution and all of that.

I am not saying it is right, but at least he is helping to collapse a broken system.

[calian]

I am 38. I make $90k/year. I live on about $45k, but have about $26k in debt which includes $12k on my 2008 truck (First and Last New car I ever buy).

So I am really able to follow this whole ERE thing, BUT... I really don't want to live in an RV. I like the idea of traveling the world and roughing it, but I always worry about 2 things when I travel to foreign countries... Food and Sanitation. I just don't want to get sick abroad (I already have in Colombia once).

So... those of you who have traveled the world and are obviously internet savvy... how rough do you live when you are on your travels?

...and those of you who are looking to do the ERE thing. How 'cheap' are you willing to live?

I think Mr. Money Mustache (who Jacob passed the torch to after he went back to work) would be much more to your liking. He's married, has a kid, lives in nice house in suburbia somewhere in Colorado and I think lives on about $27,000 a year. He really doesn't appear to be deprived of anything. Even buys Apple products.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/

[PachucoBro]

I am 38. I make $90k/year. I live on about $45k, but have about $26k in debt which includes $12k on my 2008 truck (First and Last New car I ever buy).

So I am really able to follow this whole ERE thing, BUT... I really don't want to live in an RV.

...and those of you who are looking to do the ERE thing. How 'cheap' are you willing to live?

I think Mr. Money Mustache (who Jacob passed the torch to after he went back to work) would be much more to your liking. He's married, has a kid, lives in nice house in suburbia somewhere in Colorado and I think lives on about $27,000 a year. He really doesn't appear to be deprived of anything. Even buys Apple products.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/

Hey thanks man... that guy definitely sounds a little more my style. Great link!

[Jobe7]

Any of you guys read Jacob Fisker Lund's blog before he stopped being early retired? Basically he made about $40,000 a year as a grad student, lived on about $7,000 a year and saved the rest for 5 years before becoming financially independent. Seems like he could have done it in two years if bitcoin had been in the picture.

http://earlyretirementextreme.com/

I've had this vision of selling all one's possessions for bitcoin, getting down to just what would fit in a backpack and travelling the world for 3-5 years waiting for full valuation to arrive.

Sounds very familiar to a plan I've worked out and will be starting next week

[b!z]

Any of you guys read Jacob Fisker Lund's blog before he stopped being early retired? Basically he made about $40,000 a year as a grad student, lived on about $7,000 a year and saved the rest for 5 years before becoming financially independent. Seems like he could have done it in two years if bitcoin had been in the picture.

http://earlyretirementextreme.com/

I've had this vision of selling all one's possessions for bitcoin, getting down to just what would fit in a backpack and travelling the world for 3-5 years waiting for full valuation to arrive.

Yes I read it a couple of years back, it opened my eyes (further) for the possibilities.

The question is how many coins would it take to retire in 5 years? 25 probably isn't going to be enough. 100 on the other hand and you'd be set for life. Each coin would probably be $50,000. If you have 100 then thats like having a salary of $50,000 per year for the rest of your life, you can retire with 100BTC. You can't retire with 25 BTC unless you're in your 50s-60s.

Please do not assume $50000 per coin. That requires a valuation of ~1T$ which is a lot (I'm assuming 4-6-2013 US $ wrt buying power). Of course one can't help but dream

1T$ isn't really a lot. $5000 per coin is reasonable over the next 12-24 months. It probably will hit $5000 by Jan 2014.

So I presume you maxed out all loaning possibilities and are working 3 or 4 jobs at the same time to make as much money as possible and buy coins at these prices? If you do this, and your premise is correct, you won't have to work anymore after that. In fact, you'll probably never have to doubt about any purchase ever. And if you recalculate the hourly wages this based on you projected 12-24 month Bitcoin appreciation the rates will be immensely high.

I sold everything I own (worth selling, anyway-mostly electronics and furniture), took equity out of my house, and am putting money from my job into btc each week. I didn't take out loans, that way if I'm wrong, I only go to $0 and not negative with no way to pay back. But yeah, all aboard, see y'all at $5000USD

watch out for a wallet hack, now that you've told everyone lol.

[jubalix]

The problem with this guys plan is that by the time you could spend his 1 mill, it would barely buy you a house/flat in (Sydney, City you want to live X) yet alone meet any living costs

[wachtwoord]

The problem with this guys plan is that by the time you could spend his 1 mill, it would barely buy you a house/flat in (Sydney, City you want to live X) yet alone meet any living costs

Untrue. The guy has done it, study the site and learn how.

[jubalix]

The problem with this guys plan is that by the time you could spend his 1 mill, it would barely buy you a house/flat in (Sydney, City you want to live X) yet alone meet any living costs

Untrue. The guy has done it, study the site and learn how.

not true he says he is worth 60 time what he spends annually = 60 x 7K = 420K

420K will buy you SFA anywhere you want to live, and leave you nothing to live on. In the next 10 years it will buy you even less  

eg in one month 1.5 % in Sydney alone on property and this is a bad time...that's 15000 on a $mil house which this guy claims to be buying. Nope he's not even coming close in 10 years time.

[PachucoBro]

no true he says he is worth 60 time what I spend annually = 60 x 7K = 420K

will buy you SFA anywhere you want to live, and leave you nothing to live on. In the next 10 years it will buy you less he is not

eg in one month 1.5 % in Sydney alone on property and this is a bad time...that's 15000 on a $mil house which this guy claims to be buying. Nope he's not even coming close in 10 years time, in a month!.

Understand that he lives in the USA. If you live in Australia and save 50-75% of what you make in AUD you will have a proportional amount. Now understand, he changed his way of life. The ERE guy is living out of an RV and does all kinds of homegrown/DIY things, but the Mr. Money Mustache guy is living alot nicer and has awesome pics of his house, cars and fun toys.

Still both of them have learned to live on less than what they made when working FT. Now that they are retired they live on an amount of money that is less than the interest that is made on their money.

POINT IS: They are both retired and not working and have automatic money coming in. They could still work if they wanted to... what are you doing that is assuring that at age 40? 50? 65? that you will be in their position?

[jubalix]

no true he says he is worth 60 time what I spend annually = 60 x 7K = 420K

will buy you SFA anywhere you want to live, and leave you nothing to live on. In the next 10 years it will buy you less he is not

eg in one month 1.5 % in Sydney alone on property and this is a bad time...that's 15000 on a $mil house which this guy claims to be buying. Nope he's not even coming close in 10 years time, in a month!.

Understand that he lives in the USA. If you live in Australia and save 50-75% of what you make in AUD you will have a proportional amount. Now understand, he changed his way of life. The ERE guy is living out of an RV and does all kinds of homegrown/DIY things, but the Mr. Money Mustache guy is living alot nicer and has awesome pics of his house, cars and fun toys.

Still both of them have learned to live on less than what they made when working FT. Now that they are retired they live on an amount of money that is less than the interest that is made on their money.

POINT IS: They are both retired and not working and have automatic money coming in. They could still work if they wanted to... what are you doing that is assuring that at age 40? 50? 65? that you will be in their position?

You can make a 100K a year and save every cent, and the house price increase will still out strip you by 50K a year....so that system does not work...

[PachucoBro]

no true he says he is worth 60 time what I spend annually = 60 x 7K = 420K

will buy you SFA anywhere you want to live, and leave you nothing to live on. In the next 10 years it will buy you less he is not

eg in one month 1.5 % in Sydney alone on property and this is a bad time...that's 15000 on a $mil house which this guy claims to be buying. Nope he's not even coming close in 10 years time, in a month!.

Understand this, you can make a 100,000K a year and save every cent, and the house price increase will still out strip you by 50K a year....so that system does not work

I have no clue what your numbers are supposed to be about and your grammar doesn't help me understand what you are trying to explain.

BUT... it is working... because he is doing it. Also, I have looked in to living in Australia while considering a job offer so I am familiar with the fact that Australia is very expensive to live in compared to many US states.

It's all about how much you save vs how much you plan to spend in the future. There are a TON of statistics dating back almost 100 years that back up the percentages and numbers that MMM mentions so... not gonna try to convince you.

[Pruden]

I would like to thank the OP for bringing this topic to my attention. If I haven't read but a tiny part of the ERE blog, it is because I immediately found the similar "Mister Money Moustache", which has shone a path of light towards my welfare.  I knew where I wanted to get, but with the assistance of mathematics the Financial Independence movement has exerted a great influence in my plan to a happy, carefree and healthy life.

Meanwhile, I'm just sitting at my computer all day, frowning and shouting "Damn you bitcoins, retire me already!".

[queequeg]

Thank you all for making me aware of Mister Money Moustache.  I'm really enjoying his blog.

[Operatr]

Not too hard of a plan, in theory. There was a time in this country when that was possible for a middle class person. Jobs paid well enough to support a whole family, have a good savings and retirement benefits locked. If you spent less than you earned long term you have savings.

Generation Screwed, on the other hand cannot afford to save anything really. We all work menial joe jobs that barely get us by hunting for a better opportunity that never comes, as our negative feedback loop of crushing student debt and other loan debt that will never be repayed on top of it, our only "wealth" being debt. Everything is much more expensive than it used to be, and our money is worth less and less (94% devaluation over the last 95 years). I will never have a retirement package waiting for me later, no trust in that kind of promise from faceless amoral mega corporations. That security is gone, the only one who can look out for your ass in the future is you. For many like myself, Bitcoin is a chance at a new kind of business, and maybe a chance at a better future by investing in what could be the tip of a financial iceberg. The system abandoned me a long time ago, I only spend what I earn now, which is meager, and at this rate always will be as a wage slave. The old world has nothing left for me, so it is now my life's mission to make sure Bitcoin succeeds the way we all hope it does.

Even as a trained, experienced IT manager, I still cannot find any work in this town that pays much more than much easier ones. I essentially gave up my career at that point swearing never again. But the entrepeneur and techie in me has found a new love in Bitcoin 

[sunblaster]

40k for 5 years with 7k expenses, so he saved 165k I wouldnt call that retirement or financial independence more like a a 2 year off work vacation unless he used all $ to buy btc at $5 last year

[Operatr]

40k for 5 years with 7k expenses, so he saved 165k I wouldnt call that retirement or financial independence more like a a 2 year off work vacation unless he used all $ to buy btc at $5 last year

165k would do you just fine to retire on, assuming you also have a working time machine to retire sometime in the 1940s

[PachucoBro]

Where are you guys getting these numbers... The ERE guy is like a hippie freak dude and lives out of an RV, right?

Screw him and get on board with Mr. Money Mustache! Thanks goes to calin

Here is how MMM lives retired for the last 6 years on less than $27k a year with him , his wife and 6 year old kid in their $400k house in Colorado: My Deprived Life: Raising a Family on Under $27,000 per Year

That link has photos of his house and toys.

Here is list and comparison of their expenses for 2012 vs 2010 and 2011.

I am now a self-proclaimed Mustachian! I will be debt free October this year and will then be able to stash about $30k for 2014 and $48k for 2015 and on... if I don't get anymore raises or other income (NOT!).

That will see me retired in 12 years from now at the age of 50. Not too bad. Even better if I get married and start living with 2 incomes in the household.

[Pruden]

Sunblaster, you could use reading Mr Money Moustache. $160k can be enough to not need a job ever again. The money you need to retire depends on your spending, and it is you who decides how much you spend. Not the Fed, not the corporations, only you.