What is actually double spending? any term?

[crairezx20]

Hi i just found some posted here in other thread and section about double spend but honestly i do not know what it is.
But i have idea that double spend means that you double your send bitcoin but i do not understand someone that why they need to wait for confirmation before accepting and the other said that they want to wait because of double spending..
So if the receiver receive double spending i think it is lucky that he receive double? am i right?

Sorry for noob question.. even i am sr.member i never experience double spending in my life..

[shinratensei_]

Hi i just found some posted here in other thread and section about double spend but honestly i do not know what it is.
But i have idea that double spend means that you double your send bitcoin but i do not understand someone that why they need to wait for confirmation before accepting and the other said that they want to wait because of double spending..
So if the receiver receive double spending i think it is lucky that he receive double? am i right?

Sorry for noob question.. even i am sr.member i never experience double spending in my life..

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Double-spending
read with carefully, And typewrite some word in the search toolbar for accessing a lot of previous thread was discussing double spend.

[Red-Apple]

double spend means you spend again not doubling anything!

sending bitcoin means spending the transactions that you have received and not yet spent aka UTXO.
you can send them to many different destinations and only one can be confirmed and this is what they call double spending, spending the same UTXO in more than one transaction.

[shorena]

Hi i just found some posted here in other thread and section about double spend but honestly i do not know what it is.
But i have idea that double spend means that you double your send bitcoin but i do not understand someone that why they need to wait for confirmation before accepting and the other said that they want to wait because of double spending..
So if the receiver receive double spending i think it is lucky that he receive double? am i right?

Sorry for noob question.. even i am sr.member i never experience double spending in my life..

No, the term double spend is used in a rather confusing way. A true double spend where coins are used twice is not possible in bitcoin. At least not after one transaction has a confirmation. While two transactions can spend the same bitcoin, only one of them can be confirmed. Whichever is confirmed first is the "correct" one, the other is invalid. Now double spend is commonly used to refer to a second transaction that is in conflict (neither is confirmed) of another one.

[crairezx20]

So it means the double spend if you send mistaken and double the send  the only first send will confirm and the 2nd one will not confirm and it can be also possible to confirm?
Sorry i'm confuse i am always reading for some comments there but different answer that is why i didn't search it in our forum..
I heard that there is someone can scam for double spending?

[shorena]

So it means the double spend if you send mistaken and double the send  the only first send will confirm and the 2nd one will not confirm and it can be also possible to confirm?
Sorry i'm confuse i am always reading for some comments there but different answer that is why i didn't search it in our forum..
I heard that there is someone can scam for double spending?

I guess the scam approach is the simplest to understand. Lets say you are selling coffee and you accept bitcoin as payment without confirmation. Its coffee after all who has time to wait 10 minutes to get one. I am a scammer and order a coffee at your place. You show me the QR code with your address and the amount and I send with my phone as requested. The fee I pay you will be a little low, but your wallet will see the transaction, I take my coffee and go. In secret I have prepared another transaction that uses the same bitcoin, sends them to myself and pays a large fee. I send it into the network from my server that has plenty of connections into the network. Now its very likely that my 2nd transaction, the bad one, will reach most parts of the network before the 1st one. Whenever one of the transaction reaches a node the other will be rejected when it arrives. Its like a race through a maze. Each transaction blocks the other. My hope - as the scammer - is that the 2nd transaction will win this race and I get coffee for free. Even though I have only used the bitcoin once, this is called a double spend attack.

If you wait for a confirmation you wait for the race to be over. You would know for sure which transaction won. In order to replace a confirmed transaction I would have to replace an entire block and thats very expensive. This attack is commonly called 51% or >50% attack, because it requires (in its simplest form) that the attacker has the majority of hash power.

[BitcoinBarrel]

Double spending is similar to a bank overdraft. Spending something twice with funds that you don't really have.

[crairezx20]

So it means the double spend if you send mistaken and double the send  the only first send will confirm and the 2nd one will not confirm and it can be also possible to confirm?
Sorry i'm confuse i am always reading for some comments there but different answer that is why i didn't search it in our forum..
I heard that there is someone can scam for double spending?

I guess the scam approach is the simplest to understand. Lets say you are selling coffee and you accept bitcoin as payment without confirmation. Its coffee after all who has time to wait 10 minutes to get one. I am a scammer and order a coffee at your place. You show me the QR code with your address and the amount and I send with my phone as requested. The fee I pay you will be a little low, but your wallet will see the transaction, I take my coffee and go. In secret I have prepared another transaction that uses the same bitcoin, sends them to myself and pays a large fee. I send it into the network from my server that has plenty of connections into the network. Now its very likely that my 2nd transaction, the bad one, will reach most parts of the network before the 1st one. Whenever one of the transaction reaches a node the other will be rejected when it arrives. Its like a race through a maze. Each transaction blocks the other. My hope - as the scammer - is that the 2nd transaction will win this race and I get coffee for free. Even though I have only used the bitcoin once, this is called a double spend attack.

If you wait for a confirmation you wait for the race to be over. You would know for sure which transaction won. In order to replace a confirmed transaction I would have to replace an entire block and thats very expensive. This attack is commonly called 51% or >50% attack, because it requires (in its simplest form) that the attacker has the majority of hash power.

That is why some scammer out there are doing it.. i just heard it in other forum.now i understand why we have double spend.. honesty when i was newbie last year never heard about double spending
This year starting on january i heard about double spending but i do not understand what it is actually..
Now i am confused because someone are not the same answer or different anser about double spending..  and main topic from other forum..

Now i asking that if i am receive the double spending which means the 2nd transaction win and i receive it but not deducted from sender?
If the 1st transaction is failed and the 2 transaction is win it will still be deducted in their bitcoin balance or there is no effect?

[shorena]

-snip-
That is why some scammer out there are doing it.. i just heard it in other forum.now i understand why we have double spend.. honesty when i was newbie last year never heard about double spending
This year starting on january i heard about double spending but i do not understand what it is actually..
Now i am confused because someone are not the same answer or different anser about double spending..  and main topic from other forum..

Now i asking that if i am receive the double spending which means the 2nd transaction win and i receive it but not deducted from sender?
If the 1st transaction is failed and the 2 transaction is win it will still be deducted in their bitcoin balance or there is no effect?

Hmm, there is no balance in bitcoin. Only inputs. Lets say your address is 1Abcdef... and someone sends you 0.1 BTC. You now have 1 input worth 0.1 btc. Lets say 9 more people send you 0.1 each. You have now 10 inputs worth 0.1 btc each. If you have another address 1Bcefg... and you received 1 BTC on that address with a single address you have 1 input worth 1 btc. Your total balance as your wallet would show you is 2 BTC, but when you create a transaction for a double spend its important to use the same inputs, because only then its the same coins. Thats why only one of the transactions can be valid. Balance is only shown to you so its easier to handle. Thats why we have wallets.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

You can find a pretty detailed explanation here - https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Double-spending

[kiklo]

Hi i just found some posted here in other thread and section about double spend but honestly i do not know what it is.
But i have idea that double spend means that you double your send bitcoin but i do not understand someone that why they need to wait for confirmation before accepting and the other said that they want to wait because of double spending..
So if the receiver receive double spending i think it is lucky that he receive double? am i right?

Sorry for noob question.. even i am sr.member i never experience double spending in my life..

Technically a Double spend is Counterfeiting .

The coins you receive are not Valid , and you are unable to redeem them.

Double Spend will destroy any trust in a Crypto almost overnight.


 

[AgentofCoin]

Hi i just found some posted here in other thread and section about double spend but honestly i do not know what it is.
But i have idea that double spend means that you double your send bitcoin but i do not understand someone that why they need to wait for confirmation before accepting and the other said that they want to wait because of double spending..
So if the receiver receive double spending i think it is lucky that he receive double? am i right?

Sorry for noob question.. even i am sr.member i never experience double spending in my life..

Technically a Double spend is Counterfeiting .

The coins you receive are not Valid , and you are unable to redeem them.

Double Spend will destroy any trust in a Crypto almost overnight.

 

Technically, there is no "counterfeiting" in the Bitcoin definition of the term.
Before Bitcoin and thus the blockchain was created, that was a problem with online currencies.
Counterfeiting implies that a doubling already took place, when in reality only when you receive a
confirmation do you control the coin. So counterfeiting is the old definition of doublespending.

Before Bitcoin = Double spending: double coins, counterfeiting
After Bitcoin = Double spending: two or more unconfirmed transactions that share the same input.

[kiklo]

Hi i just found some posted here in other thread and section about double spend but honestly i do not know what it is.
But i have idea that double spend means that you double your send bitcoin but i do not understand someone that why they need to wait for confirmation before accepting and the other said that they want to wait because of double spending..
So if the receiver receive double spending i think it is lucky that he receive double? am i right?

Sorry for noob question.. even i am sr.member i never experience double spending in my life..

Technically a Double spend is Counterfeiting .

The coins you receive are not Valid , and you are unable to redeem them.

Double Spend will destroy any trust in a Crypto almost overnight.

 

Technically, there is no "counterfeiting" in the Bitcoin definition of the term.
Before Bitcoin and thus the blockchain was created, that was a problem with online currencies.
Counterfeiting implies that a doubling already took place, when in reality only when you receive a
confirmation do you control the coin. So counterfeiting is the old definition of doublespending.

Before Bitcoin = Double spending: double coins, counterfeiting
After Bitcoin = Double spending: two or more unconfirmed transactions that share the same input.

It may not be included but counterfeiting is exactly what a doublespend is.
And easiest correlation to fiat for a someone to understand.

3 confirmations are the recommend number to wait to avoid a double spend.

But to be honest since the Chinese mining pools have over 51%, they could double spend anytime within the last 10 hours or so.
Since technically they can overwrite the blockchain, it would take them ~ 1 day and everyone would know it, but technically they could do it.

Which Means
BTC=  Better Trust China

 

[AgentofCoin]

Hi i just found some posted here in other thread and section about double spend but honestly i do not know what it is.
But i have idea that double spend means that you double your send bitcoin but i do not understand someone that why they need to wait for confirmation before accepting and the other said that they want to wait because of double spending..
So if the receiver receive double spending i think it is lucky that he receive double? am i right?

Sorry for noob question.. even i am sr.member i never experience double spending in my life..

Technically a Double spend is Counterfeiting .

The coins you receive are not Valid , and you are unable to redeem them.

Double Spend will destroy any trust in a Crypto almost overnight.

 

Technically, there is no "counterfeiting" in the Bitcoin definition of the term.
Before Bitcoin and thus the blockchain was created, that was a problem with online currencies.
Counterfeiting implies that a doubling already took place, when in reality only when you receive a
confirmation do you control the coin. So counterfeiting is the old definition of doublespending.

Before Bitcoin = Double spending: double coins, counterfeiting
After Bitcoin = Double spending: two or more unconfirmed transactions that share the same input.

...

But to be honest since the Chinese mining pools have over 51%, they could double spend anytime within the last 10 hours or so.
Since technically they can overwrite the blockchain, it would take them ~ 1 day and everyone would know it, but technically they could do it.

Which Means
BTC=  Better Trust China

 

Then they would have purposefully destroyed their golden goose.
It is not profitable to do that in any way, accept to kill Bitcoin for the Chinese government.

What your arguing is like saying they have nuclear warheads and they can use it.
So what? If they use it the whole world would be destroyed, so let them double spend then.
Let them watch their investments go up in flames.

[kiklo]

Then they would have purposefully destroyed their golden goose.
It is not profitable to do that in any way, accept to kill Bitcoin for the Chinese government.

What your arguing is like saying they have nuclear warheads and they can use it.
So what? If they use it the whole world would be destroyed, so let them double spend then.
Let them watch their investments go up in flames.

LOL,

If BTC became the world's currency , then China Controls it.
Meaning they don't have to destroy it, but can use the threat to get their way in matters more important to them.
Because they can destroy it for everyone else but keep it working for China only.

Since you mentioned Nuclear

Deterrence theory holds that nuclear weapons are intended to deter other states from attacking with their nuclear weapons, through the promise of retaliation and possibly mutually assured destruction (MAD).

Modified for China & BTC
China could Destroy all foreign use of BTC through the promise of blocked transactions using 51% attack,
therefore no other country may argue with any of their Political Stances for fear of this retaliation.
Diabolical aren't they.  

“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"

“All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack,
we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive;
when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away;
when far away, we must make him believe we are near.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[AgentofCoin]

Then they would have purposefully destroyed their golden goose.
It is not profitable to do that in any way, accept to kill Bitcoin for the Chinese government.

What your arguing is like saying they have nuclear warheads and they can use it.
So what? If they use it the whole world would be destroyed, so let them double spend then.
Let them watch their investments go up in flames.

LOL,

If BTC became the world's currency , then China Controls it.
Meaning they don't have to destroy it, but can use the threat to get their way in matters more important to them.
Because they can destroy it for everyone else but keep it working for China only.

Bitcoin can never be the "world's currency" if it is controlled by a Communistic Dictatorship.
Either it doesn't become the "world's currency" or Communist China collapses.
Each choice is very unlikely right now.
If China likes the concepts behind Bitcoin so much, they will use their own version, before Bitcoin.

Since you mentioned Nuclear

Deterrence theory holds that nuclear weapons are intended to deter other states from attacking with their nuclear weapons, through the promise of retaliation and possibly mutually assured destruction (MAD).

Modified for China & BTC
China could Destroy all foreign use of BTC through the promise of blocked transactions using 51% attack,
therefore no other country may argue with any of their Political Stances for fear of this retaliation.
Diabolical aren't they.  

“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Mutually Assured Destruction assumes both sides has about equal destructive ability.
As for hashing power, it is clearly in the favor of China.
If China destroyed all foreign use of BTC though power plays or etc, they would be
making BTC as worthless even to themselves.

If this was their plan, it would have been smarter to wait till it became the
"world's currency" before playing power games. "It's the slow knife...".

[kiklo]

Mutually Assured Destruction assumes both sides has about equal destructive ability.
As for hashing power, it is clearly in the favor of China.
If China destroyed all foreign use of BTC though power plays or etc, they would be
making BTC as worthless even to themselves.

If this was their plan, it would have been smarter to wait till it became the
"world's currency" before playing power games. "It's the slow knife...".

LOL,
They devalue the Yuan all of the time, their people still use it.
BTC would be no different.

They had to tip their hand to keep their 51% control, allowing the updates would have removed their dominance.

 

FYI:
You freely admit they control BTC and have the power to pull off a 51% attack.
But you want to pretend that they will never use it. With 51% China has absolute power over BTC transactions.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

FYI2:
What they could do is make BTC directly trade-able for gold in China only and it would stabilize it there, while they destroyed it in foreign countries.  
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-20/mystery-of-china-s-gold-stash-may-soon-be-solved-as-imf-beckons
(Don't think they have not thought this thru.)
All of the rest of you are playing catch up on a Plan that was designed years in advance.

[AgentofCoin]

Mutually Assured Destruction assumes both sides has about equal destructive ability.
As for hashing power, it is clearly in the favor of China.
If China destroyed all foreign use of BTC though power plays or etc, they would be
making BTC as worthless even to themselves.

If this was their plan, it would have been smarter to wait till it became the
"world's currency" before playing power games. "It's the slow knife...".

LOL,
They devalue the Yuan all of the time, their people still use it.
BTC would be no different.

They had to tip their hand to keep their 51% control, allowing the updates would have removed their dominance.

 

We are way offtopic so I'm not going to continue from here,
but your opinion is incorrect. Their people are forced to use it like all national currencies.
BTC is a threat to the Chinese Communist System. If you think they will use BTC as their
main currency you obviously don't know the Chinese government.

FYI:
You freely admit they control BTC and have the power to pull off a 51% attack.
But you want to pretend that they will never use it. With 51% China has absolute power over BTC transactions.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

China controls more hash from LTC than they do with BTC, why are you supporting that coin more?

FYI2:
What they could do is make BTC directly trade-able for gold in China only and it would stabilize it there, while they destroyed it in foreign countries.  
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-20/mystery-of-china-s-gold-stash-may-soon-be-solved-as-imf-beckons
(Don't think they have not thought this thru.)
All of the rest of you are playing catch up on a Plan that was designed years in advance.

Your crazy, the Chinese financial systems and government love gold more than anything.
They will never allow Gold/BTC exchanges. If they do, they aren't the masters, but the pawns.

[kiklo]

We are way offtopic so I'm not going to continue from here,
but your opinion is incorrect. Their people are forced to use it like all national currencies.
BTC is a threat to the Chinese Communist System. If you think they will use BTC as their
main currency you obviously don't know the Chinese government.

Actually , I know them quite well. 
Personally Love the Chinese People, it is their rulers, I have a problem with.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_China_Rules_the_World

8 - At its core, China is a civilization-state rather than a nation-state, a fact which will become steadily more apparent

9 - The Chinese state is very different from the western state: it has existed for over two thousand years, for over a millennium it has had no competitors (e.g., church, merchants) nor limits to its power; it is regarded with reverence and deference by the Chinese as the guardian and protector of Chinese civilization

10 - The Chinese have a deep and living sense of their own culture and civilization which they regard as superior to all others

11 - 92% of the Chinese believe that they are of one race, the Han Chinese, unlike the other most populous nations such as India, the United States, Brazil and Indonesia, which recognize themselves to be highly multi-racial and multi-cultural

12 - The similarities between the communist period and the Confucian era are more striking than the differences[2]

China controls more hash from LTC than they do with BTC, why are you supporting that coin more?

I support ZEIT, but I will recommend LTC or Doge over BTC,
Both are Chinese Controlled, and LTC is faster and cheaper to send , with 0 transaction problems.
You think I would recommend the more inferior coin, I recommend the best for the situation.
The questions you should ask yourself , is why are you afraid of LTC, when it will save you time and money over the inferior BTC.
False Belief of BTC superiority, is my best guess. 

FYI2:
What they could do is make BTC directly trade-able for gold in China only and it would stabilize it there, while they destroyed it in foreign countries.  
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-20/mystery-of-china-s-gold-stash-may-soon-be-solved-as-imf-beckons
(Don't think they have not thought this thru.)
All of the rest of you are playing catch up on a Plan that was designed years in advance.

Your crazy, the Chinese financial systems and government love gold more than anything.
They will never allow Gold/BTC exchanges. If they do, they aren't the masters, but the pawns.

Hmm, so you believe people would rather carry a pound of gold instead a few ounces of paper or a Cellphone Wallet,  that can represent that Gold Value.

You should study history, People have been carrying lighter items instead of heavier items as money for Centuries.
If Barter was that wonderful , Banks would have never launched Paper Fiat.
Or let me phrase it this way, if you have $100 on you , is it four $20 bills or $100 worth of pennies already rolled up.
What that you say, it is the lighter and easier to carry paper bills instead of the rolled up pennies. (There is your answer.) 

 

[AgentofCoin]

We are way offtopic so I'm not going to continue from here,
but your opinion is incorrect. Their people are forced to use it like all national currencies.
BTC is a threat to the Chinese Communist System. If you think they will use BTC as their
main currency you obviously don't know the Chinese government.

Actually , I know them quite well. 
Personally Love the Chinese People, it is their rulers, I have a problem with.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_China_Rules_the_World

8 - At its core, China is a civilization-state rather than a nation-state, a fact which will become steadily more apparent

9 - The Chinese state is very different from the western state: it has existed for over two thousand years, for over a millennium it has had no competitors (e.g., church, merchants) nor limits to its power; it is regarded with reverence and deference by the Chinese as the guardian and protector of Chinese civilization

10 - The Chinese have a deep and living sense of their own culture and civilization which they regard as superior to all others

11 - 92% of the Chinese believe that they are of one race, the Han Chinese, unlike the other most populous nations such as India, the United States, Brazil and Indonesia, which recognize themselves to be highly multi-racial and multi-cultural

12 - The similarities between the communist period and the Confucian era are more striking than the differences[2]

China controls more hash from LTC than they do with BTC, why are you supporting that coin more?

I support ZEIT, but I will recommend LTC or Doge over BTC,
Both are Chinese Controlled, and LTC is faster and cheaper to send , with 0 transaction problems.
You think I would recommend the more inferior coin, I recommend the best for the situation.
The questions you should ask yourself , is why are you afraid of LTC, when it will save you time and money over the inferior BTC.
False Belief of BTC superiority, is my best guess. 

FYI2:
What they could do is make BTC directly trade-able for gold in China only and it would stabilize it there, while they destroyed it in foreign countries.  
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-20/mystery-of-china-s-gold-stash-may-soon-be-solved-as-imf-beckons
(Don't think they have not thought this thru.)
All of the rest of you are playing catch up on a Plan that was designed years in advance.

Your crazy, the Chinese financial systems and government love gold more than anything.
They will never allow Gold/BTC exchanges. If they do, they aren't the masters, but the pawns.

Hmm, so you believe people would rather carry a pound of gold instead a few ounces of paper or a Cellphone Wallet,  that can represent that Gold Value.

You should study history, People have been carrying lighter items instead of heavier items as money for Centuries.
If Barter was that wonderful , Banks would have never launched Paper Fiat.
Or let me phrase it this way, if you have $100 on you , is it four $20 bills or $100 worth of pennies already rolled up.
What that you say, it is the lighter and easier to carry paper bills instead of the rolled up pennies. (There is your answer.) 

 

Almost every one of your answers to my statements are either out of context or total spin.
Either you are intentionally misconstruing the conversation or your are defective in some way.
I don't need a lesson in the history of gold and currency. Maybe you need a lesson in reading
and comprehension. I stated I would not continue posting in this thread due to being offtopic,
but these responses deserved a response: You don't discuss ideas, you preach your opinions.