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Author Topic: What do the DDoS'ers have to gain?  (Read 2408 times)
DamienBlack
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June 14, 2011, 05:37:18 PM
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Bitcoin related websites seem to frequently be the targets of DDoS attacks nowadays. Now I'm not one for conspiracy theories. I don't really buy most of the market manipulation claims, and I certainly don't buy any secret government crackdown nonsense. But I do have to wonder, who is DDoS'ing bitcoin sites and why? Mt Gox has been going down about once a day. Deepbit is down once a day. And I know many other sites are suffering. Even the forums seem extra sluggish sometimes (but maybe that is just normal volume).

Stretching my imagination as far as it can go, I can only think of a few theories, none of them that plausible:

1) It is just some hacker group doing it for the lulz

This doesn't seem likely to me. Why target bitcoin? I would think most hacker/computer savvy personalities would like the idea of bitcoins.

2) Someone is _really_ pissed that he didn't get in on bitcoin earlier

This is just silly, but bitcoin does seem to attract 'haters'. Do you think someone hates enough to start DDoS'ing bitcoin sites?

3) Intentional attempts to drive the market prices down

Attempting to benefit by moving the market down only works it there is still a market afterwards. No one is "short selling" bitcoins, so I can't see how anyone could make a profit on bitcoin crashing and burning. Are they confidant that bitcoin will succeed long term but want low prices now, or are they just trying to create market froth for profit potential?

4) Some government/agency

I find this hard to swallow. It seems like a half-assed DDoS attack isn't the response a concerned agency would begin with. Furthermore, I still think bitcoins are too new and small to get any real attention.

5) A company threatened by bitcoin (aka visa, paypal)

Firstly, I don't think any big company would resort to these illegal tactics, and secondly I think bitcoin is still "under the radar".

6) Competitors to the DDos'ed websites (aka other pools and exchangesl)

I find it had to believe that any member of the bitcoin community would be short sited enough to damage the community as a whole to attempt to profit themselves. They need the community to be strong to survive. Although perhaps the pool DDoS'es are from a "concerned" member of the community trying to split up the big pools.



As I said before, none of these seem particularly likely to me. What are your thoughts? Are there other potential perpetrators? Who do you think is behind it. These acts are happening, and someone is doing it for some reason. I just can't fathom who or why? What is your theory?

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dukejer
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June 14, 2011, 06:03:56 PM
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I think you missed one big one.

Extortion.  Pay us the sum of 10,000 Bitcoins or else we bring down your website.

- Dukejer
DamienBlack
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June 14, 2011, 06:15:46 PM
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I think you missed one big one.

Extortion.  Pay us the sum of 10,000 Bitcoins or else we bring down your website.

- Dukejer

That's a good one. Is there any evidence that this is happening? Besides the nonsensical anonymous threat?

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June 14, 2011, 06:33:39 PM
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That's a good one. Is there any evidence that this is happening? Besides the nonsensical anonymous threat?

Not that I know of but now movies and T.V. shows will have to change with the times.  No longer will it be "I want 1,000,000 dollars in unmarked bills delivered in a suitcase", later to be caught at the drop site.  Now they will want 50,000 BTC sent to this address.  1XXXXX555YYYYY1212ZZZZZ Wink

-Dukejer
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June 14, 2011, 06:37:23 PM
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You can also increase your mining gains:

The idea is to delay the next difficulty jump a bit which means that you will get "cheaper" BC for some more hours compared to the situation without disruptions. At the same time, parts of your competition can't use this "cheaper mining time", because they are DDOSed. As a result, you got a slightly bigger piece of the cake. It's hard to calculate the gains exactly, but if you have cheap access to a botnet and also some nice hash-rate at hand, I think it can be quite profitable.

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June 14, 2011, 06:55:57 PM
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You are too quick to dismiss governments. Do you not think they know all about bitcoin? Do you not think they expect to hear nothing from Andresen that they don't already know? Do you not think they have traced all the bitcoin transactions they can, from whom to whom? (They can't track them all, but they sure have traced every one they can.)

I don't think they know exactly what to do about bitcoin, but they DO things to targeted groups to observe the responses, which are fed into super-computer driven software prediction tools like Caesar III. Our responses result in new predictions about us and new actions are taken.

You may recall that the TSA arbitrarily started getting aggressive around a year ago, which is another example of this phenomenon. They wanted to see how people would react, wargamed the reaction, revised their plans. We here at bitcoin represent an important group for them to study. We are being wargamed.
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June 14, 2011, 07:00:02 PM
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What gives you lulz may not be what gives someone else lulz. There are people who would do it just to watch it crash and burn. Do not assume that because someone has the a certain set of skillz that their motivations are similar to anyone else's.

There are many many reasons why someone who has access to a botnet may want to take down bitcoin, and it is impossible to guess or account for them all. More than likely it is something very personal and makes perfect sense to them, much like a serial killer justifying his actions to himself. It doesn't have to make sense to you, only to them.
DamienBlack
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June 14, 2011, 07:18:10 PM
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You are too quick to dismiss governments. Do you not think they know all about bitcoin? Do you not think they expect to hear nothing from Andresen that they don't already know? Do you not think they have traced all the bitcoin transactions they can, from whom to whom? (They can't track them all, but they sure have traced every one they can.)

I don't think they know exactly what to do about bitcoin, but they DO things to targeted groups to observe the responses, which are fed into super-computer driven software prediction tools like Caesar III. Our responses result in new predictions about us and new actions are taken.

You may recall that the TSA arbitrarily started getting aggressive around a year ago, which is another example of this phenomenon. They wanted to see how people would react, wargamed the reaction, revised their plans. We here at bitcoin represent an important group for them to study. We are being wargamed.

Wow, that's a whole new level of crazy. You better be careful what you type on here, the implants the aliens put in your head on behalf of the US government might alert the NSA that one of their citizens is on to them. Even if that doesn't happen, you may still get a marked on the permanent MIB record as being unable to conform.

You might also want to lay off the silk road orders. At least for a few years. I think you've had enough.

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Coma
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June 14, 2011, 07:28:56 PM
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I think 6).
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June 14, 2011, 07:31:32 PM
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7) foster an improvement in security.
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June 14, 2011, 07:41:14 PM
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Wow, that's a whole new level of crazy. You better be careful what you type on here, the implants the aliens put in your head on behalf of the US government might alert the NSA that one of their citizens is on to them. Even if that doesn't happen, you may still get a marked on the permanent MIB record as being unable to conform.

You might also want to lay off the silk road orders. At least for a few years. I think you've had enough.
He's off the hook, he got his aluminum foil hat on.

By the way, doesn't it look strange to you that there originally should have been 23 million Bitcoins but the Illuminati then changed it to 21 so it wouldn't be so obvious they are behind it. Oh, and Satoshi is really one of the aliens that are still alive from the 1947 Roswell crash. He's been at Area 51 all along and now he's being used by the Department of Energy for their evil takeover-the-world-by-a-new-currency-scheme.

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June 14, 2011, 07:45:06 PM
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Of course, I've observed people like you before, many times. You live in the matrix, believing what you are told to believe by the mainstream media. You are taught to mock anyone who doesn't believe as you do and call them 'conspiracy theorists'.  The evidence undermining your beliefs is all around you and yet you can't see. Don't look now, al qaeda is under your bed!
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June 14, 2011, 07:48:49 PM
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MtGox original DDoS was likely a guy who was upset at the price rise (lol) and then he tried extortion.

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June 14, 2011, 07:53:29 PM
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Dude, read "Area 51" by Annie Jacobsen. It opened my eyes how this stuff all works out. Use Ockham's razor to arrive at the most likely conclusion.

You prove to me we're in the matrix and I will plug myself out. (Do you really think they would've permitted a movie like this if that was the truth?)

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DamienBlack
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June 14, 2011, 07:54:50 PM
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Of course, I've observed people like you before, many times. You live in the matrix, believing what you are told to believe by the mainstream media. You are taught to mock anyone who doesn't believe as you do and call them 'conspiracy theorists'.  The evidence undermining your beliefs is all around you and yet you can't see. Don't look now, al qaeda is under your bed!

I don't mean to mock, it was just a little bit out there on the scale of things people normally believe.

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June 14, 2011, 08:47:08 PM
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It won't be a decent hacking group if it was they would have already done what they wanted to do which most likely would be theft of bitcoins or intentionally grabbing data stored on a pool or exchanges servers.

Anything connected to an internet connection is not 100% secure regardless what sort of border security you use if they want to "hack you" they will.

If it was a government agency they would be doing more then just DDoS, unless they are deliberately using DDoS to find weaknesses in the applications so they can exploit them at some point.

Personally to me this seems like someone has managed to figure out how metasploit works and is just fireing off scripts intentionally trying to disrupt services or has managed to grab a tool off some hacking forums and is just experimenting.

I see attacks like this on a weekly basis and there is not really much you can do about them except mitigate the risk as much as possible and try reducing the impact on services.  Hopefully the guys operating the pools and exchange sites are using at the very least a decent firewall such as the Checkpoint range (which in my experience are some of the most secure) if not I myself will be very cautious.

This is one of the problems that I see with bitcoin there needs to be some kind of internal regulation and standard that the exchanges need to adhere to such as PCI-DSS so your data is kept safe at all costs and that if theft occurs of your data or coins because of a lack of good security practices, they are liable and must pay out compensation. Until then bitcoin will not be taken seriously however that means setting up an industry body to regulate the exchanges and conduct regular audits etc but unfortunately I don't see that happening any time soon.

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June 14, 2011, 09:56:16 PM
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Since BTC always drops when ANY instability is shown in MtGox (it dropped by half just because there were "problems" getting money out), perhaps they're making a play to by BTC on the cheap.
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June 14, 2011, 10:09:30 PM
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Since BTC always drops when ANY instability is shown in MtGox (it dropped by half just because there were "problems" getting money out), perhaps they're making a play to by BTC on the cheap.

I don't recall there being any drop when MtGox was last DDOS'd.

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